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Viberect any good for penile rehab?

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User
Posted 20 Nov 2016 at 18:47

Just been on the iMEDicare web site ( http://www.imedicare.co.uk ) and seen the Viberect vibration therapy device. This is suggested  for use with their pump (SOMAerect). It looks like it may be more fun than other treatments, but has anyone tried one?

They are not cheap,but if they work I may give it a try.

I have been told that my surgeon will perform double nerve sparing, so I will be eager to make sure his efforts are not wasted.

 

Good luck to all.

Nigel

User
Posted 16 May 2019 at 12:19

A radical prostatectomy will have shortened your urethra by about the height of your prostate, and that means you will probably have a shorter erection by up to that amount. You probably shouldn't be trying to pull an erection the same length it used to be - you may be tugging too hard on the new connection between urethra and bladder, and you might burst a blood vessel in the penis with too high a vacuum.

The pump is to make sure you are still achieving regular erections even when you can't get them naturally, because failure to have erections for a long time will result in further penis shortening when natural erections eventually recover, see https://community.prostatecanceruk.org/posts/t21301-Penis-size#post216227 (although I originally wrote it for hormone therapy, it applies to the recovery period from surgery too). It is not required to orgasm to get this protection, just to get hard.

Not sure what you mean by "some progress"...

The pump should enable you to achieve an erection when the nerves aren't working at all, or when they aren't fully recovered, so you should be able to get an erection inside the pump immediately (but don't - wait until surgeon says it's OK, or you might damage the surgery sites).

I don't think the pump will do anything to make recovery of natural erections happen faster. That's down to the nerves healing. "some progress" here would be detecting the slight beginning of extra blood in the penis when aroused without the use of a pump. That varies enormously - I was talking with a guy yesterday who's seeing this after 4 weeks (which is very fast), but some others here have said it took them up to 2 years.

If you are looking to use the pump so you can have intercourse, that's a bit different and requires the use of a cock-ring to maintain the erection after you remove the pump.

I would share Lyn's concern above about vibrations from a powerful medical vibrator possibly causing more damage, certainly in the early days, and I don't see how it could help nerve recovery. The frequency is more than 10 times higher than you can do with a handjob. If you want to try it for pleasurable reasons such as to try and achieve orgasm and your surgeon says OK, that's fine.

Edited by member 16 May 2019 at 12:36  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 16 May 2019 at 13:02

By "immediate", I didn't mean the instant you put the pump on - I meant it's not something that takes months to work after the surgery (but as I said, you must get the surgeon's OK first), and it doesn't require you to get aroused. I'm not familiar with what vacuum the soma pulls. Speed of getting an erection in the pump probably depends on a few things, such as air leaking around the seal (loads of lube helps), level of vacuum, and state of the vascular system supplying blood to the penis. If you've had any cardiovascular issues, the blood supply to the penis is often impacted.

Normal prostate size after puberty is regarded as 30cc volume, but many men's prostates start growing again from age 25, and they can be found up to 4 times this size. (This is not related to cancer.)

It's not a sphere, but if it was (and it's not miles off), a 30cc sphere would be 3.9cm diameter (high), and a 60cc sphere would be 4.9cm.

If you have your medical records, the size of your prostate is very likely stated as that info is used in evaluating test results and needed prior to surgery. It's standard to measure it from the MRI scan and state this on the report.

Edited by member 16 May 2019 at 13:08  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 16 May 2019 at 19:37
Are you trying to pump too quickly? 4 minutes suggests you are rushing it. Better to pump and rest, pump and rest, pump and rest until you get to full engorgement. It gets better with practice as well - when John started he could only get to the first E but after a few months, he was getting up to the third E.

Are you using plenty of lube on the inside of the tube so that your skin doesn’t drag?

The average man loses 1” to 2” in length post-RP.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 16 May 2019 at 21:21

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
It gets better with practice as well - when John started he could only get to the first E but after a few months, he was getting up to the third E.

That's interesting. Fibrosis of the corpus cavernosum is not reversible according to everything I've read, and I'm guessing you didn't leave it long enough for that to happen anyway, so the improvement can't have been due to that.

This would imply it's recovery from the operation itself. Maybe the eventual breakdown of the operation scar tissue leaving more elastic tissue, or settling of the bladder lower down, giving a bit more spare urethra.

User
Posted 17 May 2019 at 00:07
No, it was definitely down to technique.
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 17 May 2019 at 09:40

I have a different pump bought via Amazon, so I can't comment specifically on the soma. I bought it to play with, so I knew what to do in advance of needing to use it (a good suggestion I picked up here). I use a fragrance free lube from Ann Summers, which was £8 for 100ml if I remember correctly, and was on buy one get another half price. In case the seal on your soma is rubber, make sure you use a water based lube, as oil may cause rubber to rot. I think any water based lube will start to dry out if you keep it on for a long time because your skin absorbs the water out of it, but the Ann Summers lube fully recovers if you just sprinkle a bit more water on it. A cheap Boots own-brand lube dried out in use to form jelly-like lumps which was quite horrible. Drying out in use may not be so relevant if just using it to form a pump seal. KY jelly might work, but I haven't tried it.

Some people get pumps on prescription, in which case can you get the lube on prescription? (it would be free for a PCa patient)

User
Posted 17 May 2019 at 11:06
I have used pumps from Amazon and now use a somaerect as well. I have not had a problem with sealing on either and I don't use lube. Try trimming the hair short, I find it easier to shave every 10 days or so. The somaerect has a fairly hard seal attachment which makes it easier to apply the ring if required. whereas the Amazon ones have a softer more pliable seal. You can buy just the seals very cheaply and they will fit the somaeract.

You must pump slowly and rest between pumps as Lyn says. If I start to stick to the sides I just give it a shake. If you just get a bulge at the base, stop and pull the skin out of the pump slightly and start again. If swelling has stopped before you reach full normal size release and start again. It is best to release and restart after a few, maybe five minutes or so anyway. It gives a rest and allows fresh blood to circulate I think.

Cheers

Bill

User
Posted 17 May 2019 at 15:46
John was allowed the lube on prescription (so free of charge) but since KY jelly is so cheap, we felt it was immoral not to just buy it ourselves.

There are two types of KY jelly. You don't need the more expensive sterile one unless you are engaging in anal penetration perhaps. The normal one is £3.50 for the large tube on Amazon.

We found the Durex lubes good for other things but not for the pump 😳

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

Show Most Thanked Posts
User
Posted 20 Nov 2016 at 19:43
Sounds interesting!

We were told pre op that both lots of nerves would be saved,but at consent only said one side.It's ok as we are back to pre op status now.

Good luck!!

User
Posted 20 Nov 2016 at 20:30

I don't know anyone that has used or tried this yet!! I'm not denying it may be of some use but I still think it is at a very early stage yet , or we would all be using it. However Imedicare seems to be a good site and I have used their pump for 17 months.
It's a long long journey getting recovery except for the very lucky few. However 17 months has passed more quickly than I thought, and I've still been having fun , and things are starting to improve slowly.
I'd save your money but that is a personal opinion.

User
Posted 20 Nov 2016 at 20:56

If you put Viberect into the search box it will pull up all previous posts for you. HenryA has one and I think Johnny may have tried it as well. In 'erecting the erection' we had a discussion that might interest you; one of my comments is pasted below.
Probably best for you not to rush ahead and buy things or make decisions now before you even have the op - who knows whether circumstances will change. I would urge you to clarify whether there is an ED / andrology clinic in your area and whether it should be the surgeon or your GP that refers you. The sooner you have a referral after the op, the sooner you can get going (safely) with getting some function.

******************************************************************************************************************
Posted: 21 April 2016 16:22:34
I would be very cautious about the Viberect John - the research on its efficacy was done with a group of men from age 25 - 40 (mean age was 26.9), none of whom had ED. For men with partial erections, the stimulation may produce a stronger, firmer hard on but it is not going to produce an erection in a man unless his nerves have repaired. It might be more useful (and cheaper) to buy a TENS machine. That's not to say the viberect mightn't be fab for getting an orgasm but don't rely on it to cure ED.


My other concern would be to check with the urologist or oncologist first. The vibration should in theory be like a very, very vigorous hand-job only much more so but I would want to know whether there is any risk of activating / dispersing any left-over cancer cells. That may not be the case but conscious that men with PCa shouldn't have back massages etc except from a physio / masseur / chiro that is specially trained, I wonder whether this could carry the same risk?
******************************************************************************************************************

Edited by member 20 Nov 2016 at 20:58  | Reason: Not specified

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 16 May 2019 at 11:42

Hi - I have been trying to do a post on this today but am getting the message "access denied" (I have also had this message for other posts that I have tried previously).  My post was:

"Hi - I have been using a soma pump for about 5 months with some progress (nerve sparing surgery) but I was wondering if anyone had tried the Viberect as well as the Soma pump.  Should I be more patient with the soma pump?

I have numerous problems with the soma pump, for example, when I try and get anywhere near the size I used to be I sometimes end up pulling something inside my lower abdomen which then means I can't use the pump for nearly another week, I also seem to be in between the pump B and C sizes so that when I start to get "bigger" in pump B there is no room left - hence the reason I am looking at the Viberect.  I have not looked at the price yet though!"



User
Posted 16 May 2019 at 12:19

A radical prostatectomy will have shortened your urethra by about the height of your prostate, and that means you will probably have a shorter erection by up to that amount. You probably shouldn't be trying to pull an erection the same length it used to be - you may be tugging too hard on the new connection between urethra and bladder, and you might burst a blood vessel in the penis with too high a vacuum.

The pump is to make sure you are still achieving regular erections even when you can't get them naturally, because failure to have erections for a long time will result in further penis shortening when natural erections eventually recover, see https://community.prostatecanceruk.org/posts/t21301-Penis-size#post216227 (although I originally wrote it for hormone therapy, it applies to the recovery period from surgery too). It is not required to orgasm to get this protection, just to get hard.

Not sure what you mean by "some progress"...

The pump should enable you to achieve an erection when the nerves aren't working at all, or when they aren't fully recovered, so you should be able to get an erection inside the pump immediately (but don't - wait until surgeon says it's OK, or you might damage the surgery sites).

I don't think the pump will do anything to make recovery of natural erections happen faster. That's down to the nerves healing. "some progress" here would be detecting the slight beginning of extra blood in the penis when aroused without the use of a pump. That varies enormously - I was talking with a guy yesterday who's seeing this after 4 weeks (which is very fast), but some others here have said it took them up to 2 years.

If you are looking to use the pump so you can have intercourse, that's a bit different and requires the use of a cock-ring to maintain the erection after you remove the pump.

I would share Lyn's concern above about vibrations from a powerful medical vibrator possibly causing more damage, certainly in the early days, and I don't see how it could help nerve recovery. The frequency is more than 10 times higher than you can do with a handjob. If you want to try it for pleasurable reasons such as to try and achieve orgasm and your surgeon says OK, that's fine.

Edited by member 16 May 2019 at 12:36  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 16 May 2019 at 12:33
Thanks Andy62 - I was wondering if the pain was due to a shorter urethra etc. - guess I will take it a bit easier. "Some progress" is that my penis is getting larger inside the soma tube and I get very small hard erections some nights (but very small). I am on tadalfil 5mg a day as well. However, it does take up to 4 minutes to get to a decent size in the soma pump - I can't just go straight in and pump and get a big full erection.

Does anyone know what size the average prostate is? I have looked online and can only see cubic inches which doesnt tell me anything?!

User
Posted 16 May 2019 at 13:02

By "immediate", I didn't mean the instant you put the pump on - I meant it's not something that takes months to work after the surgery (but as I said, you must get the surgeon's OK first), and it doesn't require you to get aroused. I'm not familiar with what vacuum the soma pulls. Speed of getting an erection in the pump probably depends on a few things, such as air leaking around the seal (loads of lube helps), level of vacuum, and state of the vascular system supplying blood to the penis. If you've had any cardiovascular issues, the blood supply to the penis is often impacted.

Normal prostate size after puberty is regarded as 30cc volume, but many men's prostates start growing again from age 25, and they can be found up to 4 times this size. (This is not related to cancer.)

It's not a sphere, but if it was (and it's not miles off), a 30cc sphere would be 3.9cm diameter (high), and a 60cc sphere would be 4.9cm.

If you have your medical records, the size of your prostate is very likely stated as that info is used in evaluating test results and needed prior to surgery. It's standard to measure it from the MRI scan and state this on the report.

Edited by member 16 May 2019 at 13:08  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 16 May 2019 at 19:37
Are you trying to pump too quickly? 4 minutes suggests you are rushing it. Better to pump and rest, pump and rest, pump and rest until you get to full engorgement. It gets better with practice as well - when John started he could only get to the first E but after a few months, he was getting up to the third E.

Are you using plenty of lube on the inside of the tube so that your skin doesn’t drag?

The average man loses 1” to 2” in length post-RP.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 16 May 2019 at 21:21

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
It gets better with practice as well - when John started he could only get to the first E but after a few months, he was getting up to the third E.

That's interesting. Fibrosis of the corpus cavernosum is not reversible according to everything I've read, and I'm guessing you didn't leave it long enough for that to happen anyway, so the improvement can't have been due to that.

This would imply it's recovery from the operation itself. Maybe the eventual breakdown of the operation scar tissue leaving more elastic tissue, or settling of the bladder lower down, giving a bit more spare urethra.

User
Posted 17 May 2019 at 00:07
No, it was definitely down to technique.
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 17 May 2019 at 08:52

Thank you for your replies - I think I am at least 1" less in size but given the alternatives I see myself as being very fortunate.  Leekage in the pump is a problem which more lube really helps with.  This does raise another question which has probably been mentioned elsewhere but it is:

Is their a decent alternative to the Soma Lube that is cheaper but is still as good?  I have just ordered another 4 tubes costing £20 plus delivery and I am sure this cost is on my mind when I am using the stuff and so at times I probably don't use enough and hence get leekage.

User
Posted 17 May 2019 at 09:40

I have a different pump bought via Amazon, so I can't comment specifically on the soma. I bought it to play with, so I knew what to do in advance of needing to use it (a good suggestion I picked up here). I use a fragrance free lube from Ann Summers, which was £8 for 100ml if I remember correctly, and was on buy one get another half price. In case the seal on your soma is rubber, make sure you use a water based lube, as oil may cause rubber to rot. I think any water based lube will start to dry out if you keep it on for a long time because your skin absorbs the water out of it, but the Ann Summers lube fully recovers if you just sprinkle a bit more water on it. A cheap Boots own-brand lube dried out in use to form jelly-like lumps which was quite horrible. Drying out in use may not be so relevant if just using it to form a pump seal. KY jelly might work, but I haven't tried it.

Some people get pumps on prescription, in which case can you get the lube on prescription? (it would be free for a PCa patient)

User
Posted 17 May 2019 at 11:06
I have used pumps from Amazon and now use a somaerect as well. I have not had a problem with sealing on either and I don't use lube. Try trimming the hair short, I find it easier to shave every 10 days or so. The somaerect has a fairly hard seal attachment which makes it easier to apply the ring if required. whereas the Amazon ones have a softer more pliable seal. You can buy just the seals very cheaply and they will fit the somaeract.

You must pump slowly and rest between pumps as Lyn says. If I start to stick to the sides I just give it a shake. If you just get a bulge at the base, stop and pull the skin out of the pump slightly and start again. If swelling has stopped before you reach full normal size release and start again. It is best to release and restart after a few, maybe five minutes or so anyway. It gives a rest and allows fresh blood to circulate I think.

Cheers

Bill

User
Posted 17 May 2019 at 14:09

Thank you all again - I did get the Soma Pump on the NHS but was told that I had to pay for the lube.  I do shave very regularly which I have found is essential for a nice seal.  I guess a bit more experimentation might be useful to see what works for me.

User
Posted 17 May 2019 at 15:46
John was allowed the lube on prescription (so free of charge) but since KY jelly is so cheap, we felt it was immoral not to just buy it ourselves.

There are two types of KY jelly. You don't need the more expensive sterile one unless you are engaging in anal penetration perhaps. The normal one is £3.50 for the large tube on Amazon.

We found the Durex lubes good for other things but not for the pump 😳

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

 
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