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Growth Hormones in Food

User
Posted 01 Jun 2016 at 12:35

Now that I have completed my 37 fractions of RT it is hopefully back to a normal lifestyle again.  Apart from doing a lot more exercise to get fit again and to combat the muscle wasting effects of hormone implants, my big question is about diet.  I took onboard the comments from the late Prof Jane Plant about Asian diets (check out her book if you don't know about this).  According to my Oncology team, to avoid the PC coming back or spreading elsewhere, the Zoladex implants are stopping my testosterone hormone production, which in turn helps to stop any cancer cells activating.


So is it a good idea to avoid any foods (meat, milk, butter cheese) that have growth hormones added?


 - Do farmed animals have growth hormones injected into them to make them grow faster?


 - Are growth hormones added to animals feeds?


 - Does organic food not have any growth hormones at all?


It would be great if anyone from our farming community could comment on this.  Maybe I am being over cautious, but I really want to prevent PC coming back!


Steve 


 

User
Posted 11 Jun 2016 at 20:17

Sorry to be flippant , but now I've read the words " Roast Pork and Crackling on Sunday " I've decided that's what I'm having tomorrow, cancer or no cancer. Perfect !! I'll treat my family to a roast.


If life gives you lemons , then make lemonade
User
Posted 04 Jun 2016 at 12:44

Hi Bill,


I guess that I am like most blokes on this website, when I was diagnosed with PCa, I thought why me?  What have I done to deserve this?  Is it because there is a God and I am being punished for something I have done?  Is it because I had too much sex?  Is it because I didn't have enough sex?  Is it because when I worked in an office and didn't get enough sunshine?  Is it because when I worked at sea and got too much sunshine?  Is it because of what I ate, or didn't eat?  Is it because I smoke?  Is it because I drank too much?


Once these and thousands of similar thoughts had gone through my head I started reading, and reading, and reading everything I could find on the subject, and the conclusion I came to is that basically I got PCa because I lived long enough to get it!


Putting aside the more ridiculous thoughts that go through our heads it seems that the risk factors are primarily genetic, and then there is some evidence suggesting that perhaps lifestyle, diet and latitude may have something to do with it.


Take an issue like latitude, it is a fact that a greater proportion of men living in higher latitudes in places like Sweden and Canada get diagnosed with PCa than men living on the equator.  So this leads scientists to ponder whether the lack of sunshine and consequent lack of vitamin D has something to do with it.  Of course it might also be that more Swedes and Canadians have their PSA screened.


However if there is a higher incidence in northern latitudes, then the men who were born there are more likely to have inherited their genes from men who had PCa.


Quite how the scientists unravel these and other competing risk factors is beyond me.


Similarly with the Japanese/Chinese/Thai/Indian diets, if those diets are good at preventing PCa, then the men who live there are likely to have inherited genes from men who didn't have PCa, and if genetics are so important does diet make any difference?


Having said all of that, there is one good thing about diet, it is the one thing that we as individuals can do something about.  We can't change our ancestry, we can't change what environments we lived and worked in when we were young, yesterday is gone, it is history.  BUT and it is a big but, we can change our diet, we are in full control of what we put in our mouths.


So it is for that reason that I have followed Dr Jane Plant's diet, sometimes strictly, sometimes loosely, and at the moment I am giving Dr Michael Mosley's 8 week blood-sugar diet a go.


I am not sure of the science behind these diets, but they can't do me any harm, and as long as there is a chance that they help, then I feel I am doing something constructive.  After all I have never heard of anyone dying because they didn't eat enough cheese?


:)


Dave 

User
Posted 11 Jun 2016 at 10:59

Compared with siblings I was the fittest and most healthiest yet I'm the one who got cancer? I follow a balanced diet which includes some meat and dairy as if diet makes a difference it worked for me these past 11 years. However I mainly follow that diet keep to help keep fit as I have strong doubts that once you have cancer diet makes much of a difference. There are folks who follow certain diets and are doing well so they attribute diet as the reason but set against there're guys who eat whatever takes their fancy and are doing equally as well so?


The aim of fighting the fight is so you can enjoy life which includes your food and drink. 


Ray

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User
Posted 01 Jun 2016 at 13:04

Steve the following was taken from The Soil Association page. I was always under the impression that organic meant nothing is added to soil or animals ~(apart from occasional Antibiotics for illness). I would also be interested in a definitive answer

""Organic means happier, healthier animals which...

Must have access to pasture (when weather and ground conditions permit) and are truly free range.

Must have plenty of space – which helps to reduce stress and disease.

Are fed a diet that is as natural as possible and free from genetically modified organisms (GMOs). Over a million tonnes of GM crops are imported each year to feed the majority of non-organic livestock which produce chicken, eggs, pork, bacon, milk, cheese etc. This practice is banned under organic standards.

Graze and forage naturally on organic pasture (grasses and other crops) where only natural fertilisers are used and pesticides are severely restricted.

Cannot be given hormones which make them grow more quickly.

Must not be produced from cloned animals.

Must not routinely be given antibiotics. Farm animals now account for almost two-thirds of all antibiotics used in the EU. These are passed to us through the food chain""

We can't control the winds - but we can adjust our sails
User
Posted 01 Jun 2016 at 15:35

Hi Steve


Unlike you I have not had my Radiotherapy yet....it is due in September and I started preparing for it (and post-radiotherapy life) around 3 months ago.....


Prostate Cancer Diet if of course something that we all should be concerned about but perhaps instead of worrying if something is "Organic" or not it would be more productive to concentrate on WHAT is it you are eating.


Japan is in my view the "benchmark" of what we in the West should be aiming for as far as Prostate/Breast Cancer Survival Rates.....here is something about the "organic" food market in Japan....


 


".....While the organic food movement in Japan is showing some signs of progress, it is still very small. In terms of per capita consumption (about 1,000 yen/person/year) and penetration levels (0.4% of the food market), Japan is way down the list compared with other countries. About 45% of the global organic food market is in Europe and about 45% in the U.S. The rest of the world accounts for the remaining 10%, and Japan itself just 2%...."


 


 


Looking at this alone....Organic food plays NO PART whatsoever on Japan's (never mind other Asian countries) low prostate/breast cancer rates and deaths.  So in other words...as far as prostate cancer management is concerned you would be wasting your money buying Organic (animal welfare if of course important).


I (like everyone that has EVER been told he/she has cancer) have changed my Diet over the past 4-5 months....and I feel A LOT BETTER FOR IT! If however Prostate cancer is our bugbear then looking at countries with low prostate cancer death rates and emulating their diet may the route to go.


On this journey you will hear a LOT about giving up red meat.....I now only eat meat twice a week (this is simply to make sure my cholesterol is as low as it can get-mind you I never had high cholesterol to begin with)....consequently I'm eating a LOT more vegetables and a LOT more SOY in addition to a pint of tomato juice daily.


My suggestion is for you to do as much research as possible and come up with a plan that you are happy with.


Here is something that I wrote about SOY and MEAT on another Prostate Cancer site a couple of days ago in response to a dietary question from someone....


 https://community.macmillan.org.uk/cancer_types/prostate-cancer/f/142/t/109534?pi5520=2


 


 


Regards


 


 

Edited by member 01 Jun 2016 at 20:02  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 01 Jun 2016 at 16:12

Hi Steve
One of the s diet books I follow is The Rainbow Diet and also I would look up The Truth about Cancer by Clive Bollanger.
Both sources give very interesting reading and I personally find the extremely informative.

Cheers
Paul

User
Posted 02 Jun 2016 at 17:52

On the organic thing I am sure Bill is broadly correct - it isn't, in itself, the most important thing. Having said that it is true that much factory farming involves the use of growth hormones and anti biotics. With this in mind we have "gone organic" in terms of milk, cheese and meat. I have also slashed consumption of these items as well. The only milk I have is in tea and my fridge raiding days in terms of cheese are behind me. Red meat we still eat but much less and organic wherever possible - the reduced consumption offsets the extra cost.

I'm also drinking pomegranate juice daily and using soy milk on cereal and even to drink. Top tip - the Alpro stuff is a bit dearer but is much nicer!

I do these things not in the firm belief that it will cure or even prevent further spread of the disease but on the basis that there is some evidence that they might help and they certainly won't do any harm.

User
Posted 03 Jun 2016 at 09:14

I think the misunderstanding is about where growth hormones are to be found - they occur naturally in animals and are most heavily concentrated in the muscle areas and in milk - obviously so that the babies can grow as they are fed and to aid strength. Hence avoiding red meat means avoiding all the cuts that would produce burgers, the loved leg of lamb, pork ribs, etc. However, offal (liver, kidney, etc) is generally seen as safe to eat as it contains very little or no growth hormones.

The Japanese (and their colleagues in China etc) tend not to eat muscle meat so organic or force-farmed makes no difference to the Eastern prostate. For the rest of us, choosing organic meat and dairy produce will cut out the forced hormones but will not cut out the naturally occurring.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 03 Jun 2016 at 11:24

Hi Guys,


I am with Lynn on this one, just think about before you were diagnosed, a big juicy steak was guaranteed to put lead in your pencil, you were eating part of a bull just oozing pure natural testosterone!


As I read Jane Plant you should cut all meat and dairy food out of your diet.  There are lots of good alternatives, her potato and spinach curry is one of my favourites. 


:)


Dave

User
Posted 03 Jun 2016 at 12:21

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member


Hi Steve


Unlike you I have not had my Radiotherapy yet....it is due in September and I started preparing for it (and post-radiotherapy life) around 3 months ago.....


Prostate Cancer Diet if of course something that we all should be concerned about but perhaps instead of worrying if something is "Organic" or not it would be more productive to concentrate on WHAT is it you are eating.


Japan is in my view the "benchmark" of what we in the West should be aiming for as far as Prostate/Breast Cancer Survival Rates.....here is something about the "organic" food market in Japan....


 


".....While the organic food movement in Japan is showing some signs of progress, it is still very small. In terms of per capita consumption (about 1,000 yen/person/year) and penetration levels (0.4% of the food market), Japan is way down the list compared with other countries. About 45% of the global organic food market is in Europe and about 45% in the U.S. The rest of the world accounts for the remaining 10%, and Japan itself just 2%...."


 


 


Looking at this alone....Organic food plays NO PART whatsoever on Japan's (never mind other Asian countries) low prostate/breast cancer rates and deaths.  So in other words...as far as prostate cancer management is concerned you would be wasting your money buying Organic (animal welfare if of course important).


I (like everyone that has EVER been told he/she has cancer) have changed my Diet over the past 4-5 months....and I feel A LOT BETTER FOR IT! If however Prostate cancer is our bugbear then looking at countries with low prostate cancer death rates and emulating their diet may the route to go.


On this journey you will hear a LOT about giving up red meat.....I now only eat meat twice a week (this is simply to make sure my cholesterol is as low as it can get-mind you I never had high cholesterol to begin with)....consequently I'm eating a LOT more vegetables and a LOT more SOY in addition to a pint of tomato juice daily.


My suggestion is for you to do as much research as possible and come up with a plan that you are happy with.


Here is something that I wrote about SOY and MEAT on another Prostate Cancer site a couple of days ago in response to a dietary question from someone....


 https://community.macmillan.org.uk/cancer_types/prostate-cancer/f/142/t/109534?pi5520=2


 


 


Regards


 


 



I do not want to get into an arguement about organic diet, but have to say that your logic is flawed.


As Japan does not have a large usage of organic produce it can be logically stated that organic is NOT the reason for their low incidence of PC.


However it is incorrect to from this make the statement "So in other words...as far as prostate cancer management is concerned you would be wasting your money buying Organic".


It could be that Japan's PC incidence would be even lower if they ate more organic produce.


Sorry to be pedantic, I'm a programmer and deal with logic all the time and hate to see wrong conclusions draw by bad logic.


I am not saying you are wrong, just that your logic is incorrect


 


Alan


X

User
Posted 03 Jun 2016 at 15:43

Hi Alan


 


I understand the point you are trying to make....however.


FACT: It is very much accepted that Japan's low rate of Prostate Cancer Death (6.9 per 100k men population) is due to their diet.


Then you stated: "It could be that Japan's PC incidence would be even lower if they ate more organic produce."


So my question is : Have you seen ANY evidence whatsoever anywhere that links low prostate cancer incidents or death to an organic diet?


If your answer is NO then you may as well have said:


"It could be that Japan's PC incidence would be even lower if they ate more cockroaches."


So in other words.... you are already making the assumption that an organic diet has ANY beneficial effect (other than a felling of moral superiority FOR SOME PEOPLE) on one's prostate.


Another Fact: Western Vegetarians have I think around 35% less incidents of Prostate Cancer (still not as low as the Japanese) than meat eating Westerners....This of course does not mean that these vegetarians eat organic.


 


Bill


 


 

Edited by member 03 Jun 2016 at 15:51  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 03 Jun 2016 at 17:50

Thanks to Lyn for clearing up the growth hormone thing. I remember, also, being told that cows milk contained more growth hormone than human milk because cattle have to grow very quickly.


It kind of makes sense to me.

User
Posted 03 Jun 2016 at 18:47

Hi Guys,


I think that we need to be careful about comparing cancer rates in different countries, because for the most part we are comparing published figures of rates of diagnosis of cancer rather than actual rates of cancer.


One thing that is often asked, purely in relation to this country, is why do cancer rates seem to be growing?  Why are more and more men getting prostate cancer?


My grandfather died aged 86 of 'blocked water' as they called PCa in those days, but he never went near a doctor until it was advanced and literally blocking his water.  Not that it mattered very much, as even had it been diagnosed earlier there was no effective treatment.


My father was born in the 1920's and likewise never went near a doctor if he could help it, he died aged 76 of heart failure, he never had a PSA test or went near a MRI or CT scanner in his life.  So nobody knows whether or not he had PCa.


Then along comes me, a child of the 50's, quite aware of what the media are telling me, I go along to my doctor aged 54 and hey presto the PSA test shows that I have PCa. 


So looking at it from a bare statistical perspective my grandfather had PCa in his 80's, my father didn't have it, and I had it much younger in my 50's.  But that masks the truth, you don't find what you don't look for, it may well be the case that my father and grandfather also had a raised PSA level in their 50's, but no one looked for it?


Once you start applying this internationally you get far more complications, in the Western world doctors and the media are switched on to PCa and actively looking for it with PSA tests.  But in many parts of the world men grow old and die without ever having PSA tests.  So who really knows what level of PCa exists in the men of Japan, China, India, or Brazil as most of them never have PSA tests.


:)


Dave

User
Posted 04 Jun 2016 at 07:28

Hi Dave


You are correct that we must always be careful when comparing figures of any kind from different countries....for various reasons.


1. This is why for example I NEVER look at figures (of any kind) from China, Brazil, India...etc... for example....because I KNOW they will not be reliable...


2. I tend NOT to look at prostate cancer incidents (PSA screening)...I look at prostate cancer deaths.


So even accepting the fact that BOTH prostate Cancer Incidents AND Deaths are RISING in Japan....Japan is nevertheless a bench mark that ANYONE with prostate/breast cancer should pay close attention to....


As far as PSA In Japan....


 


"...In 1993 to 1997, the age-adjusted mortality rate in Japan was about one fifth to half of those in Western countries. Although PSA(prostate-specific antigen) screening may have apparently elevated the incidence rate in the US and some European countries, we did not find such a screening effect in Japan...."


"Descriptive epidemiology of prostate cancer in Japan and Western countries"- Division of Epidemiology and Prevention, Aichi Cancer Center Research Institute


 


Bill

Edited by member 04 Jun 2016 at 07:32  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 04 Jun 2016 at 07:54
Statistics...

Can be manipulated to suit the writer's views and needs.

KRO...
User
Posted 04 Jun 2016 at 12:44

Hi Bill,


I guess that I am like most blokes on this website, when I was diagnosed with PCa, I thought why me?  What have I done to deserve this?  Is it because there is a God and I am being punished for something I have done?  Is it because I had too much sex?  Is it because I didn't have enough sex?  Is it because when I worked in an office and didn't get enough sunshine?  Is it because when I worked at sea and got too much sunshine?  Is it because of what I ate, or didn't eat?  Is it because I smoke?  Is it because I drank too much?


Once these and thousands of similar thoughts had gone through my head I started reading, and reading, and reading everything I could find on the subject, and the conclusion I came to is that basically I got PCa because I lived long enough to get it!


Putting aside the more ridiculous thoughts that go through our heads it seems that the risk factors are primarily genetic, and then there is some evidence suggesting that perhaps lifestyle, diet and latitude may have something to do with it.


Take an issue like latitude, it is a fact that a greater proportion of men living in higher latitudes in places like Sweden and Canada get diagnosed with PCa than men living on the equator.  So this leads scientists to ponder whether the lack of sunshine and consequent lack of vitamin D has something to do with it.  Of course it might also be that more Swedes and Canadians have their PSA screened.


However if there is a higher incidence in northern latitudes, then the men who were born there are more likely to have inherited their genes from men who had PCa.


Quite how the scientists unravel these and other competing risk factors is beyond me.


Similarly with the Japanese/Chinese/Thai/Indian diets, if those diets are good at preventing PCa, then the men who live there are likely to have inherited genes from men who didn't have PCa, and if genetics are so important does diet make any difference?


Having said all of that, there is one good thing about diet, it is the one thing that we as individuals can do something about.  We can't change our ancestry, we can't change what environments we lived and worked in when we were young, yesterday is gone, it is history.  BUT and it is a big but, we can change our diet, we are in full control of what we put in our mouths.


So it is for that reason that I have followed Dr Jane Plant's diet, sometimes strictly, sometimes loosely, and at the moment I am giving Dr Michael Mosley's 8 week blood-sugar diet a go.


I am not sure of the science behind these diets, but they can't do me any harm, and as long as there is a chance that they help, then I feel I am doing something constructive.  After all I have never heard of anyone dying because they didn't eat enough cheese?


:)


Dave 

User
Posted 05 Jun 2016 at 12:38

Good approach to this Dave and mirrors, pretty closely, my approach. Whilst there are indeed lies, damned lies and statistics it is also foolish to ignore some of the dietary advice that has emerged especially where cancer specialists give a cautious OK to it. On pomegranate juice, for example, the statement by my treatment centre in one of their leaflets that it "may" have protective effects although "not proven" is enough for me to give it a go.


I have read Jane Plant's book and follow some of the advice albeit fairly loosely. She makes a very important distinction between "complementary" treatments and "alternative" treatments and I think that is broadly the right approach to take. There is, in my view, no viable alternative to the various treatments - RT, HT and/or surgery - that the medical profession provides but you can do things to help and diet and exercise are things we can do.

User
Posted 05 Jun 2016 at 13:52
Cattle from EU including our beef are not given growth hormones in their feed or injected, this can't be said for USA beef.

Malcolm
User
Posted 11 Jun 2016 at 00:09
I have relayed this story before but I thought it might be interesting to retell it here, Trevor is one of at least 5 brothers (could be more) his dad got around a bit. The brothers are all from different mothers and from different country's all with totally different upbringings and diets. He was only reunited with a few of them last year so we new nothing of there story's . 3 out of those 5 brothers have had PCa.

The oldest brother was born and lived in Jamaica he died in his late 70s of PCa apparently he refused any treatment but we have no other info.
I can't imagine that he would have had a western diet or indeed anything processed and meat is not plentiful, fish and chicken probably would have been his main protein source. Fruit and veg would be a high proportion of his diet. His mother was Jamaican.

Brother number 2 was born in England but emigrated at the age of 2 to Switzerland he died of PCa also in his 70s again we don't know his PCa history but I would hope that he was at least a little more educated than brother no 1 of course he may have eaten an awful lot of cheese. Never been there but hey I hear fondue is on the menu. His mother was white/British

Brother number 3 was born in Canada again he died in his 70s of PCa so obviously there is a theme here, apparently he was very well educated and health care would have been so much better than brother no 1. Not sure about the diet in Canada I could imagine there is a fair bit of red meat involved a nice tasty bison or elk. His mother was wait for it Japanese.

Then there is Trevor born in England with what I would say is and has always been a healthy diet, non smoker , non drinker, loves fish , OK has a soft spot for cheese,
diagnosed with advanced PCa at the age of 65 , incurable at diagnosis PSA of 13000 but still here 3 years on . His mother is Jamaican with Scottish background (

Looking for the common denominator here it has to be Trevor's dad because everything else is so varied, his dad died in Kent in a nursing home with a stroke and no mention of PCa on his death certificate . Trevor had not seen him since he was 11. His dad had gone to America and brought back a wife and 2 children , 1 girl and 1 boy but so far Trevor has not been able to trace them.

So does diet play the largest part ? or is it genetics and where our genes come from .?.
BFN
Julie X

NEVER LAUGH AT A LIVE DRAGON
User
Posted 11 Jun 2016 at 01:50

Hi lovey, I don't think there is any doubt that in T's case it is those bad-ass African Carribbean genes. For white men, I think there is still enough doubt about whether it is genes or environment but there are now enough people like Jamie, Mr P and the Prof saying that boys and young men should reduce their processed meat and dairy intake to make me believe that they know something. even my new gastro guy told me to reduce our son's dairy & meat intake and he was talking about bowel cancer research! Not convinced there is enough evidence that cutting it out makes much difference once you have got PCa though :-(

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 11 Jun 2016 at 08:26
Hello. I just thought I would add as someone else has said, our livestock in this country do not have added growth hormones added to their diets. My other half is a beef farmer. Nothing is allowed to be added. But I expect meat from other countries may have it added. My OH would not give up eating our own beef for anything in the world! We eat it once a week, sometimes twice. Only ever eat our own beef, but I'm sure it's full of natural hormones.
I'm sure I read of someone on here who has always been a vegetarian (may have been a vegan) and still had prostate cancer.
User
Posted 11 Jun 2016 at 10:56

I remember, years ago now, listening to the geneticist Steve Jones on the radio. He said that, in respect of lung cancer, it was a genetic predisposition that lay behind almost all cases of the disease. That did not mean that environmental factors like smoking were not crucial. He argued that you could have the genetic predisposition but that might never manifest itself in the disease itself unless there was an environmental trigger so it made absolute sense not to smoke.


This makes a lot of sense to me although whether you could extend the lung cancer paradigm to Pca is less clear because there isn't the same clear evidence that one particular environmental or dietary trigger is involved.


In my case the genetic link is stark - Dad died of Pca, my older brother has it as do I. If we had adopted a Japanese diet would we all have been spared the disease? The jury is very much out on that one.


 

User
Posted 11 Jun 2016 at 10:59

Compared with siblings I was the fittest and most healthiest yet I'm the one who got cancer? I follow a balanced diet which includes some meat and dairy as if diet makes a difference it worked for me these past 11 years. However I mainly follow that diet keep to help keep fit as I have strong doubts that once you have cancer diet makes much of a difference. There are folks who follow certain diets and are doing well so they attribute diet as the reason but set against there're guys who eat whatever takes their fancy and are doing equally as well so?


The aim of fighting the fight is so you can enjoy life which includes your food and drink. 


Ray

User
Posted 11 Jun 2016 at 11:08

I think Ray makes some very valid points. Are wholesale dietary changes once you have the disease very much a case of shutting the stable door once the horse has bolted. My own approach is to go along with some of the dietary and exercise recommendations on the basis that they can't do any harm and the fitter you are when confronting this disease the better.


But I am not giving up my steak and red wine for anybody - I just don't have it as often!

User
Posted 11 Jun 2016 at 11:33
Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

But I am not giving up my steak and red wine for anybody


Nor me...

User
Posted 11 Jun 2016 at 11:56

I think some people are more susceptible to one or more cancers than others. These may be triggered by a number of things. As far as PCa is concerned this has yet to be fully evaluated and quantified. In the case of lung cancer, we do know that statically smokers stand a far greater chance of getting lung cancer, yet even some heavy smokers live to a great age without getting the disease. In Japan though on a similar diet, fewer men get PCa. This suggests to me that diet and it's relationship to PCa is one of the risk triggers for PCa for some men, just as smoking is for lung cancer. Advice on by how a bad diet affects the risk of getting PCa has not been so forthcoming but warnings are increasingly being raised. I wish such warnings had been voiced years ago so that many men including me had had the opportunity to change diet and have a reduced risk of not only PCa but other medical problems to boot. Assuming the PCa of some men is triggered by bad diet or at least is a contributory factor as looks likely, it seems sensible to me to make some changes to diet even after having been diagnosed with PCa.

Barry
User
Posted 11 Jun 2016 at 13:13

There will be other factors as well. The Chinese, Japanese and other Far Eastern peoples tend not to eat pre-prepared meals or foods that have been wrapped in plastic, and their Governments do not add flouride or other chemicals to tap water. The same can be said of mediterranean folk who also have far lower rates of PCa.

When I was having genetic counselling in relation to our family line of brain tumours, these were the issues identified to me by the geneticist as possibly increasing risk - plastics (including cling film), drinking water, radiation exposure (including microwaves), living in areas of naturally occurring radon, living on pylon lines, etc. At the oncology dept, John was told off by a nurse for having his mobile phone in his shirt pocket - she said you never see oncology professionals carrying their phones near major organs.

Clearly, as most of my forebears lived and worked in a very small geographic area (a large family all residing in the same few streets in the North East and almost all working in the shipyard or down the mines) and will have breathed the same air, eaten the same food, cooked in similar ways and drunk the same water, there was just as much chance that it was their life style that had caused the brain tumour as it being a rogue family gene. In our village (which has had a huge number of brain tumours recently although not enough apparently to count in DoH data as an official cluster) you can plot their houses on a precise straight line through the village. We also have quite a lot of young onset PCa in the village.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 11 Jun 2016 at 16:38

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member


I think Ray makes some very valid points. Are wholesale dietary changes once you have the disease very much a case of shutting the stable door once the horse has bolted. My own approach is to go along with some of the dietary and exercise recommendations on the basis that they can't do any harm and the fitter you are when confronting this disease the better.


But I am not giving up my steak and red wine for anybody - I just don't have it as often!



I think in many ways people here are perhaps missing the point.....


"Are wholesale dietary changes once you have the disease very much a case of shutting the stable door once the horse has bolted." 


Since every man in the world will get prostate cancer (if they live long enough) this simply means that we FOUND OUT we have it before a LOT of other guys will....and MOST of us will get the opportunity to do something about it.


Our goal should be in preventing the spread (since the mets is what kills...is it not?).


So when I read a study about prostate Cancer what I'm interested is the Prevention of Spread NOT in PC Prevention....and guess what most studies that I've seen about Diet indicate that the same nutrients that can prevent prostate Cancer (Lycopene, Soy, Plant based diet etc...) can also prevent the spread.

User
Posted 11 Jun 2016 at 18:17

Hi Bill

A point is from my time on here those with known spread do equally as well basically eating anything as those on a restrictive diet.

Unless I was very lucky in RT HT killing off all my PCa cells then my balanced diet is preventing spread.

We each take note of studies as we do. To my mind they're too simplistic (27 variants of PCa - age - staging - past and current treatment are a just a few factors in a very complex issue)

Is there a study showing those with Abergavenny ancestors are more prone to PCa -:)

Ray

User
Posted 11 Jun 2016 at 18:21

No, I think you are missing some of the points made above and in previous threads. Our onco, and many of the others quoted by members, believe that boys and young men should reduce or cut out red meat, dairy etc and increase their tomato / garlic / green foods if they waqnt to avoid getting PCa when they are older. Research at St James's is concluding that by the time they reach maturity it is too late. The research into diet by Prostate Cancer Research UK divided foodstuff into the preventive diet and a diet for men with advanced PCa / mets. They did not have the capacity to research the impact of diet on men with intermediate PCa or who are hoped to be in remission.

Why do you shout?

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 11 Jun 2016 at 19:33

Hi Lyn


I'm not shouting....shouting would be THIS.....simply putting in bold means emphasis....


AS far as diet: I seen quite a few studies on Soy (and Grapeseed Extract for example) indicating not only their preventative qualities BUT also how they may help prevent the spread of PC....in the case of Grapeseed Extract (GSE) by "inducing cell cycle arrest and apoptotic death of human prostate carcinoma DU145 cells".


"...In summary, GSE feeding inhibits prostate tumor growth as well as progression in TRAMP mice without any adverse health effects. At molecular level, GSE decreased the expression of cyclins and Cdks, thereby arresting cell cycle progression that was accompanied by the decreased cell proliferation and an enhanced apoptosis...."


As far as studies on Soy they are even more extensive.....one example:


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/11/101108140919.htm


Nevertheless....If I missed the point then sorry.  Then what is the point of discussing diet since everyone here has PC already? We may as well load up on that roast pork and crackling on Sunday.

Edited by member 11 Jun 2016 at 19:43  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 11 Jun 2016 at 20:17

Sorry to be flippant , but now I've read the words " Roast Pork and Crackling on Sunday " I've decided that's what I'm having tomorrow, cancer or no cancer. Perfect !! I'll treat my family to a roast.


If life gives you lemons , then make lemonade
User
Posted 12 Jun 2016 at 01:37

Some of us talk about diet because we hope our sons and grandsons will not be put through the trauma of a cancer diagnosis in later years. Others do so because despite the lack of large scale research, they believe that what they do or don't eat helps. Topgun survived against all odds for 14 years without changing his diet one iota, Alathays was a walking miracle and absolutely believed that he had much to thank Jane Plant for, as does George. I guess everyone just wants to give themselves the best chance.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 12 Jun 2016 at 08:14

Bill

it helps to discuss as it might help others decide what diet path they follow.

Ray

User
Posted 12 Jun 2016 at 09:53
Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

now I've read the words " Roast Pork and Crackling on Sunday " I've decided that's what I'm having tomorrow



Love roast pork and crackling... couldn't exclude that from my diet... :-)

Edited by member 12 Jun 2016 at 09:55  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 12 Jun 2016 at 13:04

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member


Some of us talk about diet because we hope our sons and grandsons will not be put through the trauma of a cancer diagnosis in later years. Others do so because despite the lack of large scale research, they believe that what they do or don't eat helps. Topgun survived against all odds for 14 years without changing his diet one iota, Alathays was a walking miracle and absolutely believed that he had much to thank Jane Plant for, as does George. I guess everyone just wants to give themselves the best chance.



I agree with this with the proviso that, as yet, we haven't yet got definitive evidence on any one particular trigger as with smoking and lung cancer.


But, as you say, sensible dietary advice should now be focussed on all young people. Little or no processed meat, red meat yes but very much in moderation and restrictions in dairy.

 
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