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Query around metastatic advanced prostate cancer

User
Posted 23 Jan 2021 at 17:28
My dad opened one after a pace maker was fitted ,he had been a nationwide customer for years but upgraded to flex plus .

At the end of the day if they refuse or the extra is more than you want to pay just cancel it .

Good luck

Debby

User
Posted 23 Jan 2021 at 17:43
I found All Clear which covers metastatic PC. Seven days ago I didn’t even know what metastatic was.... Annual cover worldwide for both of us is £1900 which under the circumstances I didn’t think was too bad! We are going to wait and see how he reacts to treatment. I have some flexibility on the tickets but won’t get my money back. In a few months will get some travel insurance and hopefully Nationwide will come through.

Thank you all for helping me. I was also thinking of joining a support group locally but what I don’t want is people who have watch and wait PC. It would really help me to have people around who are going through the metastatic part. Has anyone any tips? I can see from only a few days on here there are some real experts.

I know going forward we are going to be ambitious with what we try and do, just try and go for it. I hope I am on here for years and years just still trying to push the boundaries, still making things work for us. It’s just I keep bursting into tears. I am OK after a few mins, good thing it’s lockdown and none of us are wearing make up!

User
Posted 25 Jan 2021 at 17:28
Just got some technical detail.

T4N1M1b.

PSA 136

Spread into pelvic lymph nodes with bilateral obturator and left common ilac Lymphadenopathy and also into the bones of C7 vertebra, sacrum, left ilium and left femur.

Please can someone help me understand this.

User
Posted 25 Jan 2021 at 21:24
T4 means that the cancer has broken out of the prostate gland and started to affect other tissue in the pelvic area.

N1 means it has also spread to the lymphatic system and they have given you a list of significant lymph nodes affected.

M1 means it has also spread to bones or distant organs, the b indicates that in your case it is the bones. There are tumours in his spine, the bottom of his spine, his hip bone and thigh bone.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 25 Jan 2021 at 21:28
It’s bad isn’t it... he feels well though and looks normal. No pain.
User
Posted 25 Jan 2021 at 21:31
Consultant says the HT and Enzalutamide should work to stop the spread and it is likely to be ‘boring’ for a few years. This doesn’t sound true...
User
Posted 25 Jan 2021 at 22:42

Hi Corrie,

I typed the big words in Google and chose to search images. I saw things which look like hip bones and spine bones. I'm not sure if some of OH issues are in lymph nodes near those bones rather than the bones themselves. If you do the same you will get some idea of which bits of his body are affected.

I think your earlier question regarding travel insurance needs thinking about; considering Lyn's statement about breaking a metastatic bone. Well if OH broke his hip or thigh and you have excluded PCa then they won't pay out. I don't know how fragile those bones are? 

"it's bad isn't it..." most posters on this forum are perhaps a bit more sensitive than me and couldn't bring themselves to reply to a statement like that. Well yes, it is bad, but your consultant has said it will be boring for a few years. I think you have to take that at face value. We have had people on here for many years occasionally over a decade with diagnosis similar to OH.

 

 

Dave

User
Posted 25 Jan 2021 at 22:44
Doctors are not in the habit of lying. For some men the HT fails quickly but we have plenty of members on here who are 5, 10, 15 years on from a diagnosis like yours. Irun's diagnosis 5 years ago was remarkably similar and he is still running ultramarathons.
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 25 Jan 2021 at 22:59
Lyn and Dave, thank you. He is going for a final CT scan this week and they will then baseline him. What we are thinking of doing is having a private consultation with a top specialist (I know we cannot name names) but looking at two from the Daily Mail. They are Zoom calls but we just want to take a deep breath before we plunge in.

I have done this before and used to have private medical insurance in a previous role. HRT for me with a top specialist. Cost £300 and worth every penny. I wasn’t getting very far with GP who wanted to start me on the cheapest option. A couple of times with a skin condition for son and it was definitely worth it.

Husband is happy with his care but would just like a final check. He is open to a trial and honestly is tackling this in a very positive way. As he has NEVER been ill before I always thought he was going to be a complete nightmare.

Shows what I know...

We can fund if required for things not available on the NHS - is there anything I should be watching out for.

User
Posted 25 Jan 2021 at 23:37

This thread has comparisons between private and NHS treatment, coming from a different direction than you, but the comparisons are still relevant. 

https://community.prostatecanceruk.org/posts/t27019-Switching-from-Private-to-NHS-care

Even though I and others think the NHS is just as good as private. I would have that private consultation. 

When my first PSA came back in the high 20s I asked my GP for a retest just to confirm, it came back more or less the same. I didn't want to start down the PCa route based on one sample which may have got mixed up with someone else's in the lab. So yes get a second opinion I think it will be the same as the NHS one but you need to be sure.

With T2 cancer there are private treatments which are not available on the NHS. But at T4 I think you are looking at hormone and/or chemo, there may be treatments the NHS won't fund but I suspect they would be very expensive.

I guess there are things like immunotherapy which is pretty cutting edge, but it would probably cost an absolute fortune and I don't think is proven. 

Trials are an interesting idea. I think there was a thread on here about them, you have to think about possibly much worse side effects and that it may not work as well as proven treatment. So they may be better for people who are terminal rather than incurable. 

Dave

User
Posted 26 Jan 2021 at 00:20
We self-funded private health for John's treatment but only because we wanted the urologist who was already looking after my dad, father-in-law and mother-in-law. For people who want curative treatment that isn't available in their area, it can sometimes be the right thing to do. However, it has its downsides like not necessarily having access to the specialist urology nurse and if you go private, you have to pay for every little thing.

With incurable cancer, I can't see any benefit in going private for treatment although paying for a one off consultation as a second opinion is probably worthwhile. But it depends what you mean about the 'best' ones named in the Daily Mail ... if you are referring to the list of best urologists, that isn't much use to you as they are all dealing with men who are still suitable for surgery - you need an oncologist not a urologist. If you are referring to the June 2020 article on emerging treatments and a couple of the oncos quoted there, go for it.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 27 Jan 2021 at 14:06
Hi All, Someone just sent me this link

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9190987/Thousands-men-prostate-cancer-denied-life-extending-drug.html

I think it is saying that its only used once other drugs have failed i.e Enzalutamide but can you even take Abiraterone after Enzalutamide?

They are quoting Prostate Cancer UK.

I am now getting worried. Will husband be refused Enzalutamide as well (I know its an expensive drug)

User
Posted 27 Jan 2021 at 14:26

Hi

My dad got prescribed Abiraterone last summer (after hormone injections stopped working) which he took for 3 months, sadly it did very little for him but made him quite ill (or that could have been the cancer spreading. We are in Scotland so slightly different rules to rest of the UK. I think when Abiraterone works it works really well but sadly not for every man.

i don’t think you can get Abiraterone after Enzalutamide if one does not work usually means the other will not work.

If your consultant recently mentioned HT with Enzalutamide then it sounds like it’s on offer to you?

My dad’s HT worked very well for 18 months, some men do well for years on Abiraterone or Enzalutamide.

anne

x

User
Posted 27 Jan 2021 at 14:58
I wonder if the article can be taken out of context. Just because a drug is expensive it doesnt mean it works for everyone.

My husband is young (56). His body might well be take a cocktail of drugs. He is fit and well bar this diagnosis.

We just dont know until he starts...

User
Posted 27 Jan 2021 at 17:52

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
Hi All, Someone just sent me this link

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9190987/Thousands-men-prostate-cancer-denied-life-extending-drug.html

I think it is saying that its only used once other drugs have failed i.e Enzalutamide but can you even take Abiraterone after Enzalutamide?

They are quoting Prostate Cancer UK.

I am now getting worried. Will husband be refused Enzalutamide as well (I know its an expensive drug)

 

This shouldn't affect you - men can't have abiraterone after enzalutimide has failed anyway. As I think others have said on your other threads, your OH wouldn't normally have been offered enzalutimide at this stage (like abiraterone it is only approved for men after their normal HT has failed) but during the pandemic, normal practice has been suspended because enza is less risky than chemo. 

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 27 Jan 2021 at 17:54
PS it is true that Enza and Abi don't work for everyone but chemo only works for about 50% of men with PCa
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 27 Jan 2021 at 18:39

Hi Lyn I’m interested in your last comment about Chemo only working for about 50% of men. At what stage? Is that not at all? Only for a bit?  Oh finished in October but we were never told that’s there’s a 50/50 chance of it working/not working. 

User
Posted 27 Jan 2021 at 18:52
Hi

I am no expert in cancer but just going through my dad having terminal pca last 7 months so have spent a fair bit reading other stories...

There is no definitive answer for cancer treatments for prostate cancer or the other many other cancers as every single person seems to be different ie what works for one man does not the other etc

I am sure I read about Abiraterone only working in 50% of cases too... so it’s certainly no miracle drug for all but some it is.

Personally I have psoriatic arthritis for past 10 years, while not terminal, it’s not a nice disease to live with. However I have been grateful to receive life changing biological drugs which changed my life... but again I am on my 3rd type as they all seem to fail at some point.

So sorry my reply is not supposed to be about my history ...only to say that the wonderful specialists/doctors/scientists are continually developing solutions to disease so there are hopefully many options for you in the future...

 
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