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My Journey with Prostate Cancer and what I believe to be God incidents.

User
Posted 23 May 2015 at 18:36

My Journey with Prostate Cancer and what I believe to be God incidents.

Its now 9 years since I was first diagnosed and thought it might help and encourage some if I put pen to paper, wit a few thoughts from my diary, hope it is helpful.

In March 2006 out of the blue and after a routine blood test at my local surgery it was found that I had a high PSA reading.
Prostate Cancer was suspected and later after various tests and scans this is what was diagnosed, then followed 30 sessions of Radiotherapy and 36 months of Hormone therapy, and my PSA went right down to 0.1.

During April of 2008 my wifel and I were attending ‘Spring Harvest’ at Minehead and during the Evening Celebration in the big top and after 30mins of worship comes the speaker.
To tell the truth I have no idea who he was or what the subject matter of his talk was.
He had only been speaking for 5 mins when he just stopped, and said that he believed that God was telling him that everyone was to lay on hands and pray for all those present for healing, for healing of those with cancer.

All I remember is standing up, peoples hands upon my shoulder and feeling very, very hot, you could feel the present of the Holy Spirit.
The rest of the evening is just a blur, but I have felt from that moment that I was healed, I cannot explain it any more than that.

Then in November of 2010, my regular PSA check showed a slight increase 0.27, plus I had a terrible ache in my lower back all over the Christmas Holidays. Doubts then came, and I remember praying during our morning service just after New Year questioning with God what I believed had taken place at ‘Spring Harvest’.
Then up came the next song, ‘Be Still and Know that I am God’ the 2nd verse hit me right between the eyes, ‘I am the Lord that healeth
thee’ !

In early January 2011, I had a further blood test, PSA increased again 0.39, not good news.

7th May 2011, It was hard when I heard those dreaded words, “I’m sorry, but your PSA is up again,” now 0.54, it is so easy to go into full panic mode. I began to wonder how long have I got, wonder who will care for Val[my wife], wonder how much pain I will be in…and so the list goes on!
It is easy to fall into the Devils trap and wonder where God has gone, or why He has afflicted Me with cancer.
I could wonder, but in the end what I am really doing is worrying.

And it seem to me the real problem is, I am not asking the right questions and I am letting my fears overcome my faith when I ask, or think such things.


My condition is simply a part of living in an imperfect world!
I must not pin my misfortunes on God, because God is always working to give us great blessings in life, despite the fallen nature of our world.

I believe God was right there with me when the blood test result seems to show that my cancer has returned. He’s right where He has always been – right by my side

1st September 2011

An update as to how things are, I feel great we walk an average of 10 miles every week, life is beginning to get busier, and really I feel better now, both mentally and physically than I have for a very long time.

2nd November 2011

My PSA test result is virtually the same as 6 months ago 0.59, the Urologist say's the slight increase is insignificant.
The previous rise could possibly be due to healthy cells now producing a little PSA due to the fact that I have been off hormone therapy for nearly 2 years now.

We will only know after a couple of years of stable PSA readings if it is a cure for sure, so its watchful waiting and return in 6 months.

2nd May 2012.

Seems my PSA has increased yet again to 0.76, bit disappointed but feel fine, walked 6 miles yesterday on a coastal walk around Kingston area.
Urologist says that rise is still insignificant and does not prove the cancer has returned or not, continue watchful waiting and in His words “Don’t loose any sleep over it”, and that is what I will do.

Therefore I am in the hands of Jesus and I will continue to trust in Him and what He has already done for me.

Since May 2012 my PSA has now continued to go down, as follows

21st November 2012, PSA@ 0.62

6th June 2013, PSA@0.72

5th December 2013, PSA@0.71

2nd June 2014, PSA@0.66

2nd December 2014, PSA@0.60

20th May 2015, PSA@0.58

I still believe that I am still in the hands of Jesus and from the results above they are the best!!

 

Roy.

 

 

 

User
Posted 28 Aug 2024 at 11:13

Hi Roy

Thank you for responding. It would be easy to continue with this discussion but we would never agree because not only I am not a Christian but also I don't share your belief in God. This is really the wrong forum to discuss such a subject anyway.

Regards

Pratap

 'Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that’s not why we do it.'                    Richard Feynman (1918-1988) Nobel Prize laureate

 

 

User
Posted 23 May 2015 at 18:36

My Journey with Prostate Cancer and what I believe to be God incidents.

Its now 9 years since I was first diagnosed and thought it might help and encourage some if I put pen to paper, wit a few thoughts from my diary, hope it is helpful.

In March 2006 out of the blue and after a routine blood test at my local surgery it was found that I had a high PSA reading.
Prostate Cancer was suspected and later after various tests and scans this is what was diagnosed, then followed 30 sessions of Radiotherapy and 36 months of Hormone therapy, and my PSA went right down to 0.1.

During April of 2008 my wifel and I were attending ‘Spring Harvest’ at Minehead and during the Evening Celebration in the big top and after 30mins of worship comes the speaker.
To tell the truth I have no idea who he was or what the subject matter of his talk was.
He had only been speaking for 5 mins when he just stopped, and said that he believed that God was telling him that everyone was to lay on hands and pray for all those present for healing, for healing of those with cancer.

All I remember is standing up, peoples hands upon my shoulder and feeling very, very hot, you could feel the present of the Holy Spirit.
The rest of the evening is just a blur, but I have felt from that moment that I was healed, I cannot explain it any more than that.

Then in November of 2010, my regular PSA check showed a slight increase 0.27, plus I had a terrible ache in my lower back all over the Christmas Holidays. Doubts then came, and I remember praying during our morning service just after New Year questioning with God what I believed had taken place at ‘Spring Harvest’.
Then up came the next song, ‘Be Still and Know that I am God’ the 2nd verse hit me right between the eyes, ‘I am the Lord that healeth
thee’ !

In early January 2011, I had a further blood test, PSA increased again 0.39, not good news.

7th May 2011, It was hard when I heard those dreaded words, “I’m sorry, but your PSA is up again,” now 0.54, it is so easy to go into full panic mode. I began to wonder how long have I got, wonder who will care for Val[my wife], wonder how much pain I will be in…and so the list goes on!
It is easy to fall into the Devils trap and wonder where God has gone, or why He has afflicted Me with cancer.
I could wonder, but in the end what I am really doing is worrying.

And it seem to me the real problem is, I am not asking the right questions and I am letting my fears overcome my faith when I ask, or think such things.


My condition is simply a part of living in an imperfect world!
I must not pin my misfortunes on God, because God is always working to give us great blessings in life, despite the fallen nature of our world.

I believe God was right there with me when the blood test result seems to show that my cancer has returned. He’s right where He has always been – right by my side

1st September 2011

An update as to how things are, I feel great we walk an average of 10 miles every week, life is beginning to get busier, and really I feel better now, both mentally and physically than I have for a very long time.

2nd November 2011

My PSA test result is virtually the same as 6 months ago 0.59, the Urologist say's the slight increase is insignificant.
The previous rise could possibly be due to healthy cells now producing a little PSA due to the fact that I have been off hormone therapy for nearly 2 years now.

We will only know after a couple of years of stable PSA readings if it is a cure for sure, so its watchful waiting and return in 6 months.

2nd May 2012.

Seems my PSA has increased yet again to 0.76, bit disappointed but feel fine, walked 6 miles yesterday on a coastal walk around Kingston area.
Urologist says that rise is still insignificant and does not prove the cancer has returned or not, continue watchful waiting and in His words “Don’t loose any sleep over it”, and that is what I will do.

Therefore I am in the hands of Jesus and I will continue to trust in Him and what He has already done for me.

Since May 2012 my PSA has now continued to go down, as follows

21st November 2012, PSA@ 0.62

6th June 2013, PSA@0.72

5th December 2013, PSA@0.71

2nd June 2014, PSA@0.66

2nd December 2014, PSA@0.60

20th May 2015, PSA@0.58

I still believe that I am still in the hands of Jesus and from the results above they are the best!!

 

Roy.

 

 

 

User
Posted 25 May 2015 at 19:19

Hi Roy,

Thank you for your post. I am a believer and it was so lovely to read about your experience.

Best Wishes

Jane

User
Posted 05 Jun 2019 at 13:10

I've often wondered how they would react if I asked people to pray for a new prostate for me, with the restoration of penis size, erectile function and ejaculation.

Brilliant - made me laugh.

I am Christian - I go to church, am on the cleaning rota and have done my years of volunteeringin Sunday school. However, I am confident that praying does not cure cancer. When I pray, I thank God for the scientists who use their brains for the good of others and for all the selfless people who raise huge amounts of money to fund research.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 29 Aug 2024 at 23:05

This forum is for anyone interested in improving outcomes for prostate cancer patients.

Purveying snake oil is expressly forbidden.

Religion is snake oil it should be banned from this forum IMHO.

User
Posted 27 Aug 2024 at 15:00
That's very convenient.

Just stop falling for the delusion offered by organised religion and take control of your own life.

User
Posted 23 May 2015 at 22:34
What a lovely post.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

Alison

User
Posted 24 May 2015 at 16:27

Hi Roy, I usually have a strong faith although there have been times in the past when I wondered if God had deserted me. I don't think there is any doubt that believing in something is essential to recovery, whether that is a religious faith, a dietary conviction, an exercise regime or just plain positive thinking.

Here's to belief!

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 14 Sep 2018 at 08:48

Hi Roy, thanks for your inspiring story...how have things continued since 2015? I'm very early days into a diagnosis of Gleason 7 with only one PSA test since (54.9) but I know God's healing power is at work in me and that, like for you, there will be a story to tell...

User
Posted 05 Jun 2019 at 10:54

I don't usually post negative posts on here, and I do understand that faith can be an important coping mechanism for any individual that is having to deal with a challenging situation.  So, for Christians who believe in divine healing and miracles happening today, faith can help them cope.  I am not so sure it has actually healed anyone from cancer though.  When we see people posting about experimental treatments we, as a community, sound the alarm bells.  If faith is working for an individual, then that's fine for that individual.  I would be worried that others reading these posts on here may feel that going to church or praying may bring about a total cure for them.  

I was part of a pentecostal church for over 30 years.  I went to Bible College and was, at one stage, training for the ministry.  In all that time, I saw plenty of people claim to have been healed.  They very often died of the very thing they claim to be have healed of.  I've never seen someone with Down's Syndrome transformed by the power of God, never seen an amputated limb grow back.  

My family still go to church and so, when I'm back home, I'm taken to church and the elders anoint me with oil and pray for my healing.  I've often wondered how they would react if I asked people to pray for a new prostate for me, with the restoration of penis size, erectile function and ejaculation.  After all, why would I settle for half a miracle - simply having no cancer would surely be too easy for God, why wouldn't He go the whole way and restore me back to my pre-cancerous state.  In principle, in penetecostal teaching, there is no reason why this could be viewed as an unreasonable request.

May be I'll face some criticism for this post.  As i have said, if religion works for someone, well and good.  However, this site focuses mainly on medical facts and I wouldn't want someone pursuing a faith healer which, in my experience and opinion, is highly unlikely to bring about a cure.  if it did, our churches would be full and our hospitals empty.

It is also the case that some ministries and preachers have told people to stop taking their medications as God has healed them.  Whilst these types are the minority, they do exist.  Strangely though, for those who do continue to take the medication, they will still claim their healing came from God.

And finally, money.  Yes, just watch the Christian TV channels and look at the money flowing in to these so called ministries.  You can buy special prayer clothes, healing oils etc.  Once again, only a minority exploit people, but exploit them they do. 

No offence intended to anyone.

Ulsterman

Edited by member 05 Jun 2019 at 11:02  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 05 Jun 2019 at 11:16

Thanks Andrew for your comments and questions - and the Groucho Marx quotešŸ™‚

Quick answers:

50+ yrs ago (I'm 72) a deaf guy in Toulouse asked me to pray for him. Nothing seemed to happen...but the next day he was bubbling over - he could hear perfectly. Since then I've prayed for lots of people (in the street/supermarket/park, on the bus...even in church sometimes. Enough has happened for me to know I'm not messing people around (and whatever happens, 99.9% are happy they were prayed for). Like St Paul said: Love never fails.

But what about those who don't get healed (or die)? I can live with the mystery as well as the miracles. That's not a cop-out. My day job used to be philosophy and I'm still thinking/learning/writing. If you see someone struggling or hurting, the easy thing is to "be too busy right now"...the tough thing is to walk up to them and say: "Are you healing up OK from...?" or words to that effect and take it from there.

Where does God come into it? Aesthetics is my area, but I've been pushed into Philosophy of Religion twice  when colleagues were away. We can go there privately if you like, but this is a quick answer.

I'm a Christian and a non-dualist. St Paul (who knew about these things) says: He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. Jesus told His disciples: Heal the sick. So when someone gets healed, I don't ask the question "Was it me or was it God?" because I believe the answer is "yes". The same for the NHS or Bupa - God is in the science/dedication/expertise of the medics.

Hope that's OK. Final thought: classical x=x/A is not non-A/ a>b>c then a>c logic is fine and dandy for many everyday things...but not for particle physics (or other important stuff). It won't solve the Problem of Evil (or the Problem of Good). Can go further if you like - David

User
Posted 05 Jun 2019 at 17:26
I put my faith in a surgeon rather than ā€œGodā€, whoever it is or not.

On this holy day of Eid al-Fitr, all I can say is Eid Mubarak.

Best of luck, In shaā€™Allah.

Cheers, John.

User
Posted 06 Jun 2019 at 09:50

Thanks Chris for this study, which I, as a thinker, take note of.

The first miraculous healing I experienced was 51 yrs ago - a deaf guy I laid hands on at the end of a meeting in Toulouse. That was “hands on”, in a spiritual “faith ambience”. I've been in on some dramatic “healings at a distance”, but my experience is that it's more common for folk to get healed instantly (or feel a definite change in their symptoms) in the street/supermarket, on the bus or even in church when there's personal engagement.

The point about performance anxiety is really important. It comes out in this very free translation (from the Aramaic) of John 16:23-4

All things that you ask straightly and directly from inside My name you shall be given. So far you have not done this. Ask without hidden motive and be surrounded by your answer. Be enveloped by what you desire, that your gladness be full.

If that hidden motive is some kind of “performance anxiety” - be it to please someone praying for you or to impress folk who are watching...in fact any motivation except love, then forget it baby!

Where does that leave me, taking note of the survey? I'll still offer to pray for people on social media, but encourage them to personal engagement with me or the person praying for them. Blessings - David

User
Posted 07 Jun 2019 at 09:58
Religion will be the death of mankind - long live atheism!!
User
Posted 26 Aug 2024 at 16:56

Just picked up on this post that I posted in 2015.

Lots of negative thoughts about God and healing since then I see.

My journey continues, just to let everyone know it is now 18 years since my diagnosis, all has been well but over the past couple of years my PSA has increased to 6, small spot of cancer has been found in my prostate but nothing elsewhere so it is back on to Hormone Therapy until it drops then rest until it rises again.

At 84 I am happy about that, hope to see my grand daughter reach 18 in 7 years time [Oncologist thinks that is more than possible], I still trust and thank God for looking after me.

I am still in the hands of Jesus which is the best place to be.

When the end does come I know that I will be with Jesus in heaven, all my many sins forgiven as he has promised us.

 

User
Posted 26 Aug 2024 at 20:34

Roy: I'm glad you're still around after 18 years. Gives all the newbies hope.

Adrian: Well I like your "A place to have a chat" thread, but I think these old timers could give you a run for your money. I wouldn't attempt this sort of debate until I had had a skin full of beer, and thankfully by then I can't use a computer keyboard.

Dave

User
Posted 31 Aug 2024 at 12:40

I am not sure this thread is helping people who are here for specific reasons connected with their diagnosis, treatment and recovery after prostate cancer. The administrators may like to consider whether to allow this thread to develop any further. People's view in religion and God is a personal matter and shouldn't have any place in this forum.

 'Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that’s not why we do it.'                    Richard Feynman (1918-1988) Nobel Prize laureate

 

 

User
Posted 31 Aug 2024 at 13:34

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

UK taxpayers pay approx 33 billion pounds a year to owners of the national debt - thats why you have potholes in your roads - priority goes to paying interest on national debt 

It's also the reason you have roads in the first place. You can't build roads without money. People won't lend the money to the government unless they are compensated with interest, so national debt is necessary for infrastructure and interest is necessary to get that money. Taxes can only be raised once infrastructure is in place, how can the taxman commit highway robbery (vehicle excise duty) if you you haven't built a highway.

My apologies for diverting this thread from religion to economic theory. Oh and BTW if you came to this thread looking for advice on prostate cancer that ship has long sailed.

Dave

User
Posted 23 May 2015 at 21:42

Good evening Roy,

I am not a believer, although I do have faith.

If your faith works for you then stick with it?

As Dave Allen used to say at the end of his shows "Goodnight, and may your God go with you".

May your God go with you Roy, and continue to do so.

atb

dave

All we can do - is do all that we can.

So, do all you can to help yourself, then make the best of your time. :-)

I am the statistic.

User
Posted 23 May 2015 at 22:21

Hi Roy,

I am aslo like dave and not a believer , but one thing that I do believe in is a celebration when getting good news for psa results so congratulations.

BFN

Julie X

NEVER LAUGH AT A LIVE DRAGON
User
Posted 24 May 2015 at 11:17

Hi Roy,

Like some others, I'm not a believer either.

I'm pleased you've found strength through your faith to help you through the difficult  times.

Your PSA results are moving in the right direction, so congratulations!

Best Wishes 

Luther

 

User
Posted 24 May 2015 at 11:52
Roy

I am a believer in fate and destiny and faith in humanity. if your belief is in God and Jesus and that works for you that is wonderful. I know from your posts you are a lovely human being and that makes you someone I would have faith in.

Long may your journey continue

Best wishes

Xx

Mo

User
Posted 04 Jun 2019 at 08:57

Hi Roy, Hope you don't mind me putting this on your page. It's from my page "Diet and Spirituality" - David I'm writing this post at this time for a man (or a carer) who will find it to be a step on in the process of reversing a prostate cancer diagnosis. Not to prove anything or to wind anyone up by triumphalistic claims...

It's about a year now since I peed a little bit of blood. That soon stopped, but I did what they say and the tests/scans/biopsies led to a diagnosis of Gleason 4+3. With 2 medically attested healings on me (including skin cancer) I thought: Do I have faith that God will heal me of this without conventional medicine?

I wasn't sure. I see conventional medicine anyway as part of God's healing...the issue was more about the side effects of treatment and whether they needed to be part of the journey. I felt I should stay within the NHS, so I consented to hormone therapy every 3 months with my PSA test. I was PSA 55 at the time.

The world looks a bit different without testosterone...but it still looks real good. One of the “signs that follow those who believe” in Mark 16 is to not be harmed if they drink deadly poison, so I took hold of that for injections and possible side effects. I had occasional hot flashes, but that was all.

Within 6 months the PSA was <0.1. The medics all said: That's the HT. Fair enough – they've put in all that studying and they've got the experience.

But my faith was rising and I had a FB Messenger page of folk praying for me. I had some dreams. People I prayed for felt the power of God touch them and the pain leave them instantly. The final step to coming off the HT was reading a translation from the Aramaic of John 16:23-4

 

"All things that you ask straightly and directly from inside my name you shall be given. So far you have not done this. Ask without hidden motive and be surrounded by your answer. Be enveloped by what you desire, that your gladness be full."

 

That version opened things up – I knew that was where I was at. S-----, my designated MacMillan nurse was brilliant in explaining to the medics that this old guy wasn't some religious nutter “following the teachings of his church” (though a lot of healings do happen at our church) but that he genuinely believes that he is cancer-free.

Without any mental gymnastics or white-knuckle praying I'm filled with thankfulness – to God, to those who care for me and to those who run sites like Prostate Cancer UK. Yes, sometimes negative thoughts and fears do show up (sometimes unexpectedly) but I invite them to take a hike and they move on out of my stream of consciousness PDQ. It's like having your birthday present before your birthday. It's being glad of the succession of good PSA results for the 2020s while it's still 2019...

If you're the guy this post is for, please get in touch, either publicly on this site or ask for contact details and we'll keep it private. The same for anyone who'd like me to pray for them “from a distance”. If it's not for you, then thanks for reading it and if my thinking doesn't fit with yours, be sure that no offence was intended.

User
Posted 06 Jun 2019 at 07:21
An interesting article on a large-scale research project to determine the power of prayer on medical recovery:

https://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html

ā€œPrayers offered by strangers had no effect on the recovery of people who were undergoing heart surgery, a large and long-awaited study has found.

And patients who knew they were being prayed for had a higher rate of post-operative complications like abnormal heart rhythms, perhaps because of the expectations the prayers created, the researchers suggested.ā€

ā€œThe patients were broken into three groups. Two were prayed for; the third was not. Half the patients who received the prayers were told that they were being prayed for; half were told that they might or might not receive prayers.ā€

ā€œAnalyzing complications in the 30 days after the operations, the researchers found no differences between those patients who were prayed for and those who were not.

In another of the study's findings, a significantly higher number of the patients who knew that they were being prayed for ā€” 59 percent ā€” suffered complications, compared with 51 percent of those who were uncertain. The authors left open the possibility that this was a chance finding. But they said that being aware of the strangers' prayers also may have caused some of the patients a kind of performance anxiety.ā€

Cheers,

Chris

User
Posted 07 Jun 2019 at 10:51

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
Religion will be the death of mankind - long live atheism!!

Religion has already accounted for many more deaths than atheism ever did: even if you count Stalin as an atheist (by no means certain), his tally pales into insignificance compared to the old testament.

But atheism is becoming 'the norm', partly as organised religion discredits itself with such arrogance and ignorance, partly as it's hard to justify our tiny blue planet lost in the extremes of a minor galaxy in a tired universe being somehow 'The One'.

Interestingly, it's only where religion is actively opposed, even persecuted, that it thrives: hence the recent rise in militant Islam, after centuries of slow decline, the temporary rise in Russia after 50 years of suppression (declining again now the heat is off). No accident that Rich American Born Agains nurture the unlikely claim Christianity is 'persecuted' to create a fake climate for growth.

But all this is irrelevant to PCa, as well as most people's daily lives, so it's my last in this thread!  ;-)

User
Posted 26 Aug 2024 at 17:29

 Hi Roy

I'm a non believer, but if you believe that believing helps, I envy you.

Edited by member 26 Aug 2024 at 17:37  | Reason: Typo

User
Posted 26 Aug 2024 at 19:33

Thanks for the update Roy - stay strong in Him šŸ˜Š

User
Posted 26 Aug 2024 at 21:04

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
Adrian: Well I like your "A place to have a chat" thread, but I think these old timers could give you a run for your money. I wouldn't attempt this sort of debate until I had had a skin full of beer, and thankfully by then I can't use a computer keyboard.

Fortunately, no-one has been brave enough, or foolish enough, or drunk enough, to discuss politics or religion in polite company. šŸ˜

Edited by member 26 Aug 2024 at 21:05  | Reason: Typo

User
Posted 26 Aug 2024 at 22:13

Jasper, 

Although I do believe in God. I also wonder where he was that day too.

Melissa x

 

Mrs MAS

User
Posted 26 Aug 2024 at 22:27

Roy fantastic to see you are still around after 18 years. As always with these forums good news stories are not the one's you hear a lot of.  Statistically speaking you have beat the odds. I was told when I was diagnosed I would have 15 years. I then had to explain to my wife, who was in floods of tears at this point, how medical stats work.  Once you get to 20 years I think your life span is  actually better than the average because of prostate treatment.

User
Posted 26 Aug 2024 at 22:32

It's so nice to hear you talking about your faith, I am Christian as well,

God holds us all in the palm of His hand He knows the exact date when we are all going to die,  some have dissed your belief in Jesus I just feel sorry for them 

 

 

User
Posted 27 Aug 2024 at 08:05

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
Religion will be the death of mankind - long live atheism!!

Religion has already accounted for many more deaths than atheism ever did: even if you count Stalin as an atheist (by no means certain), his tally pales into insignificance compared to the old testament.

But atheism is becoming 'the norm', partly as organised religion discredits itself with such arrogance and ignorance, partly as it's hard to justify our tiny blue planet lost in the extremes of a minor galaxy in a tired universe being somehow 'The One'.

Interestingly, it's only where religion is actively opposed, even persecuted, that it thrives: hence the recent rise in militant Islam, after centuries of slow decline, the temporary rise in Russia after 50 years of suppression (declining again now the heat is off). No accident that Rich American Born Agains nurture the unlikely claim Christianity is 'persecuted' to create a fake climate for growth.

But all this is irrelevant to PCa, as well as most people's daily lives, so it's my last in this thread!  ;-)

 

I have to correct you there -

The biggest kill count belongs to Communism - 100 million people slaughtered  by Communist regimes  in the last 100 years 

At the heart of Communism is a hatred of Christ 

User
Posted 27 Aug 2024 at 15:33

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
That's very convenient.
Just stop falling for the delusion offered by organised religion and take control of your own life.

In my 50 odd years as a Christian I have seen many answers to prayer, not only my own but other peoples, to say that they are a delusion is going too far, I rather believe what I have seen with my own eyes.

I will not say much more on this subject as it is not really the correct place, but I do hope that those who do have a Christian faith will find that what I have said will give them encouragement. 

Edited by member 27 Aug 2024 at 16:29  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 31 Aug 2024 at 09:23

According to the 2021 Census less than half, 46.3%, of the UK population identify themselves as Christians, a decrease of 13% from ten years earlier.

37% of the population had no religious beliefs. Christianity is obviously a faith that's losing steam here. 

My old Mum, who was a hundred years old, was on end of life care when she recently passed away. She was a believer and got great comfort thinking that she'd would go to a better place and meet up with Dad. She'd nursed him through prostate cancer until he died from it seven years earlier. I'm glad her faith helped prepare her for death, but it won't help me when my time comes.

Edited by member 31 Aug 2024 at 10:34  | Reason: Typo

User
Posted 31 Aug 2024 at 12:54

I agree Pratap

While it's great to see that Roy is still with us 18 after years. Discussion about religion is not relevant to the support of members who have to make informed decisions based on facts. 

User
Posted 31 Aug 2024 at 16:01

Lizz, our local support group meeting is held at a local university hospital in their cancer research centre.  Their staff host the meetings and they are certainly always looking at new ideas and potential cures.

I would agree that the progress in cancer research is probably not proportional to the amount of money spent. 

Nearly 11 years ago ,when diagnosed a local news item said there would be a cancer vaccine in five years time. Ironically I went on a cancer vaccine trial a few years ago, it failed to produce any positive results.

Thanks Chris 

Edited by member 31 Aug 2024 at 17:14  | Reason: Spelling

Show Most Thanked Posts
User
Posted 23 May 2015 at 21:42

Good evening Roy,

I am not a believer, although I do have faith.

If your faith works for you then stick with it?

As Dave Allen used to say at the end of his shows "Goodnight, and may your God go with you".

May your God go with you Roy, and continue to do so.

atb

dave

All we can do - is do all that we can.

So, do all you can to help yourself, then make the best of your time. :-)

I am the statistic.

User
Posted 23 May 2015 at 22:21

Hi Roy,

I am aslo like dave and not a believer , but one thing that I do believe in is a celebration when getting good news for psa results so congratulations.

BFN

Julie X

NEVER LAUGH AT A LIVE DRAGON
User
Posted 23 May 2015 at 22:34
What a lovely post.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

Alison

User
Posted 24 May 2015 at 11:17

Hi Roy,

Like some others, I'm not a believer either.

I'm pleased you've found strength through your faith to help you through the difficult  times.

Your PSA results are moving in the right direction, so congratulations!

Best Wishes 

Luther

 

User
Posted 24 May 2015 at 11:52
Roy

I am a believer in fate and destiny and faith in humanity. if your belief is in God and Jesus and that works for you that is wonderful. I know from your posts you are a lovely human being and that makes you someone I would have faith in.

Long may your journey continue

Best wishes

Xx

Mo

User
Posted 24 May 2015 at 16:27

Hi Roy, I usually have a strong faith although there have been times in the past when I wondered if God had deserted me. I don't think there is any doubt that believing in something is essential to recovery, whether that is a religious faith, a dietary conviction, an exercise regime or just plain positive thinking.

Here's to belief!

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 25 May 2015 at 19:19

Hi Roy,

Thank you for your post. I am a believer and it was so lovely to read about your experience.

Best Wishes

Jane

User
Posted 14 Sep 2018 at 08:48

Hi Roy, thanks for your inspiring story...how have things continued since 2015? I'm very early days into a diagnosis of Gleason 7 with only one PSA test since (54.9) but I know God's healing power is at work in me and that, like for you, there will be a story to tell...

User
Posted 04 Jun 2019 at 08:57

Hi Roy, Hope you don't mind me putting this on your page. It's from my page "Diet and Spirituality" - David I'm writing this post at this time for a man (or a carer) who will find it to be a step on in the process of reversing a prostate cancer diagnosis. Not to prove anything or to wind anyone up by triumphalistic claims...

It's about a year now since I peed a little bit of blood. That soon stopped, but I did what they say and the tests/scans/biopsies led to a diagnosis of Gleason 4+3. With 2 medically attested healings on me (including skin cancer) I thought: Do I have faith that God will heal me of this without conventional medicine?

I wasn't sure. I see conventional medicine anyway as part of God's healing...the issue was more about the side effects of treatment and whether they needed to be part of the journey. I felt I should stay within the NHS, so I consented to hormone therapy every 3 months with my PSA test. I was PSA 55 at the time.

The world looks a bit different without testosterone...but it still looks real good. One of the “signs that follow those who believe” in Mark 16 is to not be harmed if they drink deadly poison, so I took hold of that for injections and possible side effects. I had occasional hot flashes, but that was all.

Within 6 months the PSA was <0.1. The medics all said: That's the HT. Fair enough – they've put in all that studying and they've got the experience.

But my faith was rising and I had a FB Messenger page of folk praying for me. I had some dreams. People I prayed for felt the power of God touch them and the pain leave them instantly. The final step to coming off the HT was reading a translation from the Aramaic of John 16:23-4

 

"All things that you ask straightly and directly from inside my name you shall be given. So far you have not done this. Ask without hidden motive and be surrounded by your answer. Be enveloped by what you desire, that your gladness be full."

 

That version opened things up – I knew that was where I was at. S-----, my designated MacMillan nurse was brilliant in explaining to the medics that this old guy wasn't some religious nutter “following the teachings of his church” (though a lot of healings do happen at our church) but that he genuinely believes that he is cancer-free.

Without any mental gymnastics or white-knuckle praying I'm filled with thankfulness – to God, to those who care for me and to those who run sites like Prostate Cancer UK. Yes, sometimes negative thoughts and fears do show up (sometimes unexpectedly) but I invite them to take a hike and they move on out of my stream of consciousness PDQ. It's like having your birthday present before your birthday. It's being glad of the succession of good PSA results for the 2020s while it's still 2019...

If you're the guy this post is for, please get in touch, either publicly on this site or ask for contact details and we'll keep it private. The same for anyone who'd like me to pray for them “from a distance”. If it's not for you, then thanks for reading it and if my thinking doesn't fit with yours, be sure that no offence was intended.

User
Posted 05 Jun 2019 at 10:23

It's always good to hear of people surviving PCa (or any other of life's disasters!), but when people credit 'god' rather than the good health care with a smattering of postcode lottery luck, it does raise questions for me ...

This is a genuine question, though it's only fair to point out that I am pretty much an atheist (though all things are conceivable):

Why do you think that your god has singled you out for such preferential treatment, while 'he' allows so many thousands of children to die awful deaths from cancer?

Which, of course, raises the obvious follow-up question:

Could your miracles be simply a combination of luck and good medicine?

Either way I agree with Dave Allen ... "May Your God Go With You ..."

User
Posted 05 Jun 2019 at 10:54

I don't usually post negative posts on here, and I do understand that faith can be an important coping mechanism for any individual that is having to deal with a challenging situation.  So, for Christians who believe in divine healing and miracles happening today, faith can help them cope.  I am not so sure it has actually healed anyone from cancer though.  When we see people posting about experimental treatments we, as a community, sound the alarm bells.  If faith is working for an individual, then that's fine for that individual.  I would be worried that others reading these posts on here may feel that going to church or praying may bring about a total cure for them.  

I was part of a pentecostal church for over 30 years.  I went to Bible College and was, at one stage, training for the ministry.  In all that time, I saw plenty of people claim to have been healed.  They very often died of the very thing they claim to be have healed of.  I've never seen someone with Down's Syndrome transformed by the power of God, never seen an amputated limb grow back.  

My family still go to church and so, when I'm back home, I'm taken to church and the elders anoint me with oil and pray for my healing.  I've often wondered how they would react if I asked people to pray for a new prostate for me, with the restoration of penis size, erectile function and ejaculation.  After all, why would I settle for half a miracle - simply having no cancer would surely be too easy for God, why wouldn't He go the whole way and restore me back to my pre-cancerous state.  In principle, in penetecostal teaching, there is no reason why this could be viewed as an unreasonable request.

May be I'll face some criticism for this post.  As i have said, if religion works for someone, well and good.  However, this site focuses mainly on medical facts and I wouldn't want someone pursuing a faith healer which, in my experience and opinion, is highly unlikely to bring about a cure.  if it did, our churches would be full and our hospitals empty.

It is also the case that some ministries and preachers have told people to stop taking their medications as God has healed them.  Whilst these types are the minority, they do exist.  Strangely though, for those who do continue to take the medication, they will still claim their healing came from God.

And finally, money.  Yes, just watch the Christian TV channels and look at the money flowing in to these so called ministries.  You can buy special prayer clothes, healing oils etc.  Once again, only a minority exploit people, but exploit them they do. 

No offence intended to anyone.

Ulsterman

Edited by member 05 Jun 2019 at 11:02  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 05 Jun 2019 at 11:16

Thanks Andrew for your comments and questions - and the Groucho Marx quotešŸ™‚

Quick answers:

50+ yrs ago (I'm 72) a deaf guy in Toulouse asked me to pray for him. Nothing seemed to happen...but the next day he was bubbling over - he could hear perfectly. Since then I've prayed for lots of people (in the street/supermarket/park, on the bus...even in church sometimes. Enough has happened for me to know I'm not messing people around (and whatever happens, 99.9% are happy they were prayed for). Like St Paul said: Love never fails.

But what about those who don't get healed (or die)? I can live with the mystery as well as the miracles. That's not a cop-out. My day job used to be philosophy and I'm still thinking/learning/writing. If you see someone struggling or hurting, the easy thing is to "be too busy right now"...the tough thing is to walk up to them and say: "Are you healing up OK from...?" or words to that effect and take it from there.

Where does God come into it? Aesthetics is my area, but I've been pushed into Philosophy of Religion twice  when colleagues were away. We can go there privately if you like, but this is a quick answer.

I'm a Christian and a non-dualist. St Paul (who knew about these things) says: He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. Jesus told His disciples: Heal the sick. So when someone gets healed, I don't ask the question "Was it me or was it God?" because I believe the answer is "yes". The same for the NHS or Bupa - God is in the science/dedication/expertise of the medics.

Hope that's OK. Final thought: classical x=x/A is not non-A/ a>b>c then a>c logic is fine and dandy for many everyday things...but not for particle physics (or other important stuff). It won't solve the Problem of Evil (or the Problem of Good). Can go further if you like - David

User
Posted 05 Jun 2019 at 11:47

Hi Ulsterman - thanks for your honest and corrective post. Life (and Truth) are bigger than one person's post or the view from any single standpoint and it will help define/refine what I or anyone else might post.

I love the scenario of your asking for prayer for "a new prostate  with the restoration of penis size, erectile function and ejaculation". Please consider doing it. It could help some to a new and better place in God...and in their own view of life, the universe and everything. Jesus won't be shocked...reckon you know that anywayšŸ™ƒ

50+ yrs ago (I'm 72) a deaf guy in Toulouse asked me to pray for him. Nothing seemed to happen...but the next day he was bubbling over - he could hear perfectly. Since then I've prayed for lots of people (in the street/supermarket/park, on the bus...even in church sometimes. Enough has happened for me to know I'm not messing people around (and whatever happens, 99.9% are happy they were prayed for). Like St Paul said: Love never fails.

In 2009 in St Thomas's Hospital London, Mr L-----said to me: "This doesn't happen - you're regenerating your retina" I laughed and said: "Well I did tell you my friends would pray for me" He laughed too.

That's one of the medically attested miracles I've had on me. Please don't give up believing...

But what about those who don't get healed (or die)? I can live with the mystery as well as the miracles. That's not a cop-out. My day job used to be philosophy and I'm still thinking/learning/writing. If you see someone struggling or hurting, the easy thing is to "be too busy right now"...the tough thing is to walk up to them and say: "Are you healing up OK from...?" or words to that effect and take it from there.

I'm a Christian and a non-dualist. St Paul (who knew about these things) says: He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. Jesus told His disciples: Heal the sick. So when someone gets healed, I don't ask the question "Was it me or was it God?" because I believe the answer is "yes". The same for the NHS or Bupa - God is in the science/dedication/expertise of the medics, so I'm not about telling folk to come off medication.

Like for me with the HT, I knew when it was right to come off it and I take responsibility.

Please message me privately if there's more to say, or if I can pray more personally, but thanks for your post which will help clarify things for some readers - David

 

User
Posted 05 Jun 2019 at 13:10

I've often wondered how they would react if I asked people to pray for a new prostate for me, with the restoration of penis size, erectile function and ejaculation.

Brilliant - made me laugh.

I am Christian - I go to church, am on the cleaning rota and have done my years of volunteeringin Sunday school. However, I am confident that praying does not cure cancer. When I pray, I thank God for the scientists who use their brains for the good of others and for all the selfless people who raise huge amounts of money to fund research.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 05 Jun 2019 at 13:53

Glad it gave you a laugh...some Christians can be a bit po-faced šŸ˜. But reckon you knew that anyway...

You've read my post so you know I agree with you about thanking God for the NHS, Bupa and all those who care for folk and fight disease. And for MacMillan nurses...especially mine - S---- - who has helped me more in my PCa battle than anyone with their name on a door...

Not to be in any kind of argument, but please message me if there's someone you know who needs a miracle. Might be me that prays for them, or someone else who has seen a lot more than me. God bless - David

User
Posted 05 Jun 2019 at 16:24

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

Thanks Andrew for your comments and questions - and the Groucho Marx quotešŸ™‚

It was a bit of a cop out... You didn't actually answer either of my questions.

I've known children who died; cancer and other causes. I've seen young lives wasted and families destroyed.

I suspect it was those experiences that first persuaded me that if there is a god, it's a malevolent, psychopathic god. And eventually I came to see that there's no plan. It's just nature, red in tooth and claw. If you want a mystery, that's fine. It's claiming to have solved the mystery that worries me.

When these conversions come up, I always remember the 9 year old boy, about a fortnight before he died, telling me his only fear was for his dad. He was worried that his dad wouldn't cope after he died. 

Give me a clue why your god gave that amazing, brave kid a horrible death. And tell me why anyone should worship him. Because I come up empty. Every time.

And if this god 'has a plan', then tell me why praying will change that plan. Because that doesn't even make sense.

Edited by member 05 Jun 2019 at 16:29  | Reason: Typos and autocorrect.

User
Posted 05 Jun 2019 at 17:26
I put my faith in a surgeon rather than ā€œGodā€, whoever it is or not.

On this holy day of Eid al-Fitr, all I can say is Eid Mubarak.

Best of luck, In shaā€™Allah.

Cheers, John.

User
Posted 05 Jun 2019 at 18:32
I agree some find comfort in religion and that's fine but keep taking the medicine because arguable miracles are few and far between. My mother used to say, "God helps those who help themselves". Having said that, if you feel you can freely cure all of us or indeed some of us through prayer that would be appreciated.

People pray for all sorts of things, good health, wealth, rain, (or less rain), good harvests, long life and happiness among others. When I played tennis many years ago my opponent told me afterwards that he prayed to win some key points. He did win the match but I put it down to him being a better player than me. But for those of us that watch football I am sure you will have seen the occasional player cross himself before he comes onto the field.

Many years before Jesus Christ and those exalted by other religions, people used a form of prayer or ceremony to the God of the sun, moon and others, I wonder for the small number that experienced what we term miracles believed it was due to their prayers and sacrifices?

Barry
User
Posted 05 Jun 2019 at 23:18

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

I don't usually post negative posts on here, and I do understand that faith can be an important coping mechanism for any individual that is having to deal with a challenging situation.  So, for Christians who believe in divine healing and miracles happening today, faith can help them cope.  I am not so sure it has actually healed anyone from cancer though.  When we see people posting about experimental treatments we, as a community, sound the alarm bells.  If faith is working for an individual, then that's fine for that individual.  I would be worried that others reading these posts on here may feel that going to church or praying may bring about a total cure for them.  

I was part of a pentecostal church for over 30 years.  I went to Bible College and was, at one stage, training for the ministry.  In all that time, I saw plenty of people claim to have been healed.  They very often died of the very thing they claim to be have healed of.  I've never seen someone with Down's Syndrome transformed by the power of God, never seen an amputated limb grow back.  

My family still go to church and so, when I'm back home, I'm taken to church and the elders anoint me with oil and pray for my healing.  I've often wondered how they would react if I asked people to pray for a new prostate for me, with the restoration of penis size, erectile function and ejaculation.  After all, why would I settle for half a miracle - simply having no cancer would surely be too easy for God, why wouldn't He go the whole way and restore me back to my pre-cancerous state.  In principle, in penetecostal teaching, there is no reason why this could be viewed as an unreasonable request.

May be I'll face some criticism for this post.  As i have said, if religion works for someone, well and good.  However, this site focuses mainly on medical facts and I wouldn't want someone pursuing a faith healer which, in my experience and opinion, is highly unlikely to bring about a cure.  if it did, our churches would be full and our hospitals empty.

It is also the case that some ministries and preachers have told people to stop taking their medications as God has healed them.  Whilst these types are the minority, they do exist.  Strangely though, for those who do continue to take the medication, they will still claim their healing came from God.

And finally, money.  Yes, just watch the Christian TV channels and look at the money flowing in to these so called ministries.  You can buy special prayer clothes, healing oils etc.  Once again, only a minority exploit people, but exploit them they do. 

No offence intended to anyone.

Ulsterman

 

Good Evening Ulsterman 

Thank you very much for your VERY logical comment. 

I read it 3 times (call me an idiot but yes  times 3 times)

I wish that I have a Friend like you so I can go to a pub or Hampstead heat have some decent conversation  with you and Cheshire Chris.

You guys so great very logical people. 

In 21 st Century on a website that had been Created by Sir Tim burners Lee some people talking about religious stuff...its incredible!!!

Hilariously funny!!

Scientists people medical people every day trying to work out to find solutions about cancer days and nights but on the other hand is every Sunday some people they collect monies and nobody knows where those monies goes to!!

For true believers they dont need to go to a church or synagogue or makkah!!! 

As some people says religious buildings doesnt makes people a good or bad person same as a anyone elses garage at home if you park your  Ford fiesta it wont be turning over night a Mercedes slk 600.or Bentley Continental!

If they really believe that Any kind of Powerful person exists or his/her  miracle exists than let's closed to schools, universities etc..let's we all go to churches,synagogues, temples. Pray pray and pray days and nights not to produce anything but consume!!!

 

When I was living in Jackson city Tenneseee back to 10 years ago I had to join a church because of my ex wife!

Tenneseee is one of those bible states , people on Wednesday's  and sundays they all go to the church's,  by than our preacher  he was every Sunday  jumping upside down screaming  and crying loudly  (it was amazing I was wandering that where did he get that energy from every Sunday to shout scream and cry jump upside down like a chimpanzees !!! )

Than after that there were money collections:))

 

By than they knew that I was a none believer but I respected for their beliefs and culture. 

Anyway..I personally Dont believe anything and looked at religious beliefs kinda therapy!

But I believe in Kama- Sutra

At least it's more fun:))

Cheers buddy

D.R

Edited by member 07 Jun 2019 at 22:41  | Reason: Correction

User
Posted 06 Jun 2019 at 07:21
An interesting article on a large-scale research project to determine the power of prayer on medical recovery:

https://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html

ā€œPrayers offered by strangers had no effect on the recovery of people who were undergoing heart surgery, a large and long-awaited study has found.

And patients who knew they were being prayed for had a higher rate of post-operative complications like abnormal heart rhythms, perhaps because of the expectations the prayers created, the researchers suggested.ā€

ā€œThe patients were broken into three groups. Two were prayed for; the third was not. Half the patients who received the prayers were told that they were being prayed for; half were told that they might or might not receive prayers.ā€

ā€œAnalyzing complications in the 30 days after the operations, the researchers found no differences between those patients who were prayed for and those who were not.

In another of the study's findings, a significantly higher number of the patients who knew that they were being prayed for ā€” 59 percent ā€” suffered complications, compared with 51 percent of those who were uncertain. The authors left open the possibility that this was a chance finding. But they said that being aware of the strangers' prayers also may have caused some of the patients a kind of performance anxiety.ā€

Cheers,

Chris

User
Posted 06 Jun 2019 at 09:50

Thanks Chris for this study, which I, as a thinker, take note of.

The first miraculous healing I experienced was 51 yrs ago - a deaf guy I laid hands on at the end of a meeting in Toulouse. That was “hands on”, in a spiritual “faith ambience”. I've been in on some dramatic “healings at a distance”, but my experience is that it's more common for folk to get healed instantly (or feel a definite change in their symptoms) in the street/supermarket, on the bus or even in church when there's personal engagement.

The point about performance anxiety is really important. It comes out in this very free translation (from the Aramaic) of John 16:23-4

All things that you ask straightly and directly from inside My name you shall be given. So far you have not done this. Ask without hidden motive and be surrounded by your answer. Be enveloped by what you desire, that your gladness be full.

If that hidden motive is some kind of “performance anxiety” - be it to please someone praying for you or to impress folk who are watching...in fact any motivation except love, then forget it baby!

Where does that leave me, taking note of the survey? I'll still offer to pray for people on social media, but encourage them to personal engagement with me or the person praying for them. Blessings - David

User
Posted 06 Jun 2019 at 11:10

Sorry Andrew for being a bit indirect - your questions deserve clear answers
Why do you think that your god has singled you out for such preferential treatment, while 'he' allows so many thousands of children to die awful deaths from cancer?

As a thinker, I'm a non-dualist. Like St Paul I believe that "He that is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him" and that I and God are one. Not because I'm special - anyone can get in on that one-ness.

So I'm going to take my share of the blame and responsibility, along with God. The miracles I've had on me, and that have happened when I've prayed for people over the past 50 years have been down to me and down to Him (no separation). I prayed and got people to pray for me when I had skin cancer and eye problems - getting healed was a real faith-battle each time, but it happened. It was my decision...and the love of friends and family who cared and prayed for me.

More miracles like those would happen if more people prayed like that.

So why do others not get healed? I don't know, but I'm going to do all I can while I'm alive to bring healing to as many as I can in the world by 1. Giving to medical and research charities. 2. Caring for the environment and encouraging healthy living 3. Using my time, faith and relationship with God to be part of the answer to "Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven" - and that will include praying with/for people I meet in the world (real or virtual).

In my days as a lecturer, twice I had to teach courses in Philosophy of Religion (reluctantly). Involving of course "The Problem of Evil". We can go into that privately, if it would be helpful, but 2 quick things. 1. Evil poses problems for those who believe in God...but denying God doesn't solve them. They come back as "The Problem of Good" 2. Looking at suffering in terms of "classical x=x/A is not non-A/ a>b>c then a>c logic" is a blind alley. Best suggestion I have is to look at Gregg Braden's "The Divine Matrix"  https://www.facebook.com/148725225302229/photos/braden-gregg-the-divine-matrixpdfbetween-1993-and-2000-a-series-of-groundbreakin/477356639105751/

Which, of course, raises the obvious follow-up question:

Could your miracles be simply a combination of luck and good medicine?

You might call this a cop-out, but as a non-dualist, I don't distinguish between miraculous healing and conventional medicine in my thinking - God is in them both. The distinction is that I'm not claiming to be a doctor, just a guy who prays for people, some of whom get healed. I'm just as glad when someone gets well through medicine as I am when there's an instant miracle. Taking liberties with St Paul (1 Corinthians 13)...if it ain't love, forget it baby!

Best I can manage for now, but friend me on FaceBook or Messenger (only one David Derrington in UK) - David

User
Posted 07 Jun 2019 at 09:58
Religion will be the death of mankind - long live atheism!!
User
Posted 07 Jun 2019 at 10:51

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
Religion will be the death of mankind - long live atheism!!

Religion has already accounted for many more deaths than atheism ever did: even if you count Stalin as an atheist (by no means certain), his tally pales into insignificance compared to the old testament.

But atheism is becoming 'the norm', partly as organised religion discredits itself with such arrogance and ignorance, partly as it's hard to justify our tiny blue planet lost in the extremes of a minor galaxy in a tired universe being somehow 'The One'.

Interestingly, it's only where religion is actively opposed, even persecuted, that it thrives: hence the recent rise in militant Islam, after centuries of slow decline, the temporary rise in Russia after 50 years of suppression (declining again now the heat is off). No accident that Rich American Born Agains nurture the unlikely claim Christianity is 'persecuted' to create a fake climate for growth.

But all this is irrelevant to PCa, as well as most people's daily lives, so it's my last in this thread!  ;-)

User
Posted 26 Aug 2024 at 16:56

Just picked up on this post that I posted in 2015.

Lots of negative thoughts about God and healing since then I see.

My journey continues, just to let everyone know it is now 18 years since my diagnosis, all has been well but over the past couple of years my PSA has increased to 6, small spot of cancer has been found in my prostate but nothing elsewhere so it is back on to Hormone Therapy until it drops then rest until it rises again.

At 84 I am happy about that, hope to see my grand daughter reach 18 in 7 years time [Oncologist thinks that is more than possible], I still trust and thank God for looking after me.

I am still in the hands of Jesus which is the best place to be.

When the end does come I know that I will be with Jesus in heaven, all my many sins forgiven as he has promised us.

 

User
Posted 26 Aug 2024 at 17:29

 Hi Roy

I'm a non believer, but if you believe that believing helps, I envy you.

Edited by member 26 Aug 2024 at 17:37  | Reason: Typo

User
Posted 26 Aug 2024 at 19:33

Thanks for the update Roy - stay strong in Him šŸ˜Š

User
Posted 26 Aug 2024 at 19:43
Where was God on 29 July in Southport when that monster butchered those poor little girls?

I get it people find faith important, that's freedom of choice but for many , me included, all Religion is a fairy story.

User
Posted 26 Aug 2024 at 20:34

Roy: I'm glad you're still around after 18 years. Gives all the newbies hope.

Adrian: Well I like your "A place to have a chat" thread, but I think these old timers could give you a run for your money. I wouldn't attempt this sort of debate until I had had a skin full of beer, and thankfully by then I can't use a computer keyboard.

Dave

User
Posted 26 Aug 2024 at 21:04

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
Adrian: Well I like your "A place to have a chat" thread, but I think these old timers could give you a run for your money. I wouldn't attempt this sort of debate until I had had a skin full of beer, and thankfully by then I can't use a computer keyboard.

Fortunately, no-one has been brave enough, or foolish enough, or drunk enough, to discuss politics or religion in polite company. šŸ˜

Edited by member 26 Aug 2024 at 21:05  | Reason: Typo

User
Posted 26 Aug 2024 at 22:13

Jasper, 

Although I do believe in God. I also wonder where he was that day too.

Melissa x

 

Mrs MAS

User
Posted 26 Aug 2024 at 22:27

Roy fantastic to see you are still around after 18 years. As always with these forums good news stories are not the one's you hear a lot of.  Statistically speaking you have beat the odds. I was told when I was diagnosed I would have 15 years. I then had to explain to my wife, who was in floods of tears at this point, how medical stats work.  Once you get to 20 years I think your life span is  actually better than the average because of prostate treatment.

User
Posted 26 Aug 2024 at 22:32

It's so nice to hear you talking about your faith, I am Christian as well,

God holds us all in the palm of His hand He knows the exact date when we are all going to die,  some have dissed your belief in Jesus I just feel sorry for them 

 

 

User
Posted 27 Aug 2024 at 08:05

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
Religion will be the death of mankind - long live atheism!!

Religion has already accounted for many more deaths than atheism ever did: even if you count Stalin as an atheist (by no means certain), his tally pales into insignificance compared to the old testament.

But atheism is becoming 'the norm', partly as organised religion discredits itself with such arrogance and ignorance, partly as it's hard to justify our tiny blue planet lost in the extremes of a minor galaxy in a tired universe being somehow 'The One'.

Interestingly, it's only where religion is actively opposed, even persecuted, that it thrives: hence the recent rise in militant Islam, after centuries of slow decline, the temporary rise in Russia after 50 years of suppression (declining again now the heat is off). No accident that Rich American Born Agains nurture the unlikely claim Christianity is 'persecuted' to create a fake climate for growth.

But all this is irrelevant to PCa, as well as most people's daily lives, so it's my last in this thread!  ;-)

 

I have to correct you there -

The biggest kill count belongs to Communism - 100 million people slaughtered  by Communist regimes  in the last 100 years 

At the heart of Communism is a hatred of Christ 

User
Posted 27 Aug 2024 at 12:01

If God decides to save someone from prostate cancer-death (or anything) how does he/she/.... choose? Just wondering.

Edited by member 28 Aug 2024 at 11:08  | Reason: Not specified

 'Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that’s not why we do it.'                    Richard Feynman (1918-1988) Nobel Prize laureate

 

 

User
Posted 27 Aug 2024 at 14:39

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

If God decides to save someone from prostate cancer-death (or anything) how does he/she/.... chooses? Just wondering.

A good question:

It is not always God’s will to heal a person physically. A person may sincerely pray and truly have faith that God can heal, but if it is not God’s will to provide the healing at that time, then no healing will come (see 1 John 5:14). Sometimes God’s blessings come in other ways besides physical healing.

If it were always God’s will for people to be healed, then everyone would be healed every time he or she became ill. If good health were always God’s will, then Christians should never die. We can’t blame someone’s malady on a lack of faith, for we know, biblically, that God sometimes uses illness to accomplish His will. Also, it’s not just wayward believers who get sick. Paul “left Trophimus sick in Miletus” (2 Timothy 4:20), and Paul himself had a physical ailment that the Lord declined to heal (2 Corinthians 12:7–9).

Often, Christians have an over-simplified idea of healing. They think that, if they are sick, they have only to ask God to heal them and, because God loves them, He will heal them straightaway. Healing is seen as proof of a person’s faith and of God’s love. This idea persists in some circles in spite of the truth that every mother knows: a parent does not give her child everything he asks for every time, no matter how much she loves him.It is not always God’s will to heal a person physically. A person may sincerely pray and truly have faith that God can heal, but if it is not God’s will to provide the healing at that time, then no healing will come (see 1 John 5:14). Sometimes God’s blessings come in other ways besides physical healing.




 

User
Posted 27 Aug 2024 at 15:00
That's very convenient.

Just stop falling for the delusion offered by organised religion and take control of your own life.

User
Posted 27 Aug 2024 at 15:33

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
That's very convenient.
Just stop falling for the delusion offered by organised religion and take control of your own life.

In my 50 odd years as a Christian I have seen many answers to prayer, not only my own but other peoples, to say that they are a delusion is going too far, I rather believe what I have seen with my own eyes.

I will not say much more on this subject as it is not really the correct place, but I do hope that those who do have a Christian faith will find that what I have said will give them encouragement. 

Edited by member 27 Aug 2024 at 16:29  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 28 Aug 2024 at 11:13

Hi Roy

Thank you for responding. It would be easy to continue with this discussion but we would never agree because not only I am not a Christian but also I don't share your belief in God. This is really the wrong forum to discuss such a subject anyway.

Regards

Pratap

 'Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that’s not why we do it.'                    Richard Feynman (1918-1988) Nobel Prize laureate

 

 

User
Posted 29 Aug 2024 at 18:13

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

Hi Roy

Thank you for responding. It would be easy to continue with this discussion but we would never agree because not only I am not a Christian but also I don't share your belief in God. This is really the wrong forum to discuss such a subject anyway.

Regards

Pratap

Surely a big part of this forum is the prospect of dying early due to prostate cancer

consequently how can dying, God, the afterlife and eternity be seperate from that?

User
Posted 29 Aug 2024 at 23:05

This forum is for anyone interested in improving outcomes for prostate cancer patients.

Purveying snake oil is expressly forbidden.

Religion is snake oil it should be banned from this forum IMHO.

User
Posted 30 Aug 2024 at 18:06

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

This forum is for anyone interested in improving outcomes for prostate cancer patients.

Purveying snake oil is expressly forbidden.

Religion is snake oil it should be banned from this forum IMHO.

Yes but UK is officially and legally a Christian country who are you to slag off  our religious  heritage  ?

Would you  preach your snake oil theory to the guys in the "End of life " catorgory here on prostate cancer uk ?

Edited by member 30 Aug 2024 at 18:08  | Reason: Add more info

User
Posted 30 Aug 2024 at 23:24
An ex Christian who saw the real light
User
Posted 31 Aug 2024 at 09:23

According to the 2021 Census less than half, 46.3%, of the UK population identify themselves as Christians, a decrease of 13% from ten years earlier.

37% of the population had no religious beliefs. Christianity is obviously a faith that's losing steam here. 

My old Mum, who was a hundred years old, was on end of life care when she recently passed away. She was a believer and got great comfort thinking that she'd would go to a better place and meet up with Dad. She'd nursed him through prostate cancer until he died from it seven years earlier. I'm glad her faith helped prepare her for death, but it won't help me when my time comes.

Edited by member 31 Aug 2024 at 10:34  | Reason: Typo

User
Posted 31 Aug 2024 at 12:27

Christianity is being phased out in UK  schools anti Christian entities  are actively  trying to get rid of nativity plays now 

Interestingly many immigrants coming to UK are Christian certainly many African countries are strong Christians even Muslims love and acknowledge Jesus albeit as a prophet as they dont believe Jesus was the son of God 

Anyway they can never get rid of Christianity

ever

we have a special part of our brain that is solely for religion just as we have a part of the brain that is for languages or comedy 

A big reason they want rid of Christianity is bc Christianity forbids usury 

UK taxpayers pay approx 33 billion pounds a year to owners of the national debt - thats why you have potholes in your roads - priority goes to paying interest on national debt 

 

User
Posted 31 Aug 2024 at 12:40

I am not sure this thread is helping people who are here for specific reasons connected with their diagnosis, treatment and recovery after prostate cancer. The administrators may like to consider whether to allow this thread to develop any further. People's view in religion and God is a personal matter and shouldn't have any place in this forum.

 'Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that’s not why we do it.'                    Richard Feynman (1918-1988) Nobel Prize laureate

 

 

User
Posted 31 Aug 2024 at 12:54

I agree Pratap

While it's great to see that Roy is still with us 18 after years. Discussion about religion is not relevant to the support of members who have to make informed decisions based on facts. 

User
Posted 31 Aug 2024 at 13:34

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

UK taxpayers pay approx 33 billion pounds a year to owners of the national debt - thats why you have potholes in your roads - priority goes to paying interest on national debt 

It's also the reason you have roads in the first place. You can't build roads without money. People won't lend the money to the government unless they are compensated with interest, so national debt is necessary for infrastructure and interest is necessary to get that money. Taxes can only be raised once infrastructure is in place, how can the taxman commit highway robbery (vehicle excise duty) if you you haven't built a highway.

My apologies for diverting this thread from religion to economic theory. Oh and BTW if you came to this thread looking for advice on prostate cancer that ship has long sailed.

Dave

User
Posted 31 Aug 2024 at 14:22
The thing I struggle with, in terms of religion, is if there was a god why do bad things happen to good people, including innocent children and those who believe. The idea that a god somehow picks and chooses who to heal also makes no sense to me. Neither do the explanations as to why this may be. Nor does the idea that some decline treatment in favour of prayer.

Iā€™m eternally grateful for the science based treatment, and those that participate in clinical trials, and the doctors that are constantly looking to cure, treat, operate and keep learning.

If a religious belief brings some people comfort at times like this, or anytime of uncertainty, then that is great, but perhaps best not on this forum.

 
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