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User
Posted 02 Oct 2022 at 12:20

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
It may just be a bit too soon; PSA isn't really a reliable indicator of the effectiveness of RT in the early days after treatment so it's possible that the same applies to SABR. Alternatively, it may be that the node that was zapped is not where the PSA is being generated

Lyn, I think I prefer the first option 😃.

My post SRT PSA  dropped from 0.27 to 0.08 in a matter of weeks, so I am hoping for the same.

Thanks Chris 

User
Posted 02 Oct 2022 at 16:06
Hope it starts to drop Chris. Logic tells me if the scan did not reveal anything else then surely the lymph node is generating the PSA. Either way fingers all crossed for you

Bri

User
Posted 03 Oct 2022 at 22:31

Hi Chris,

If I had a psa record like yours one thought would be it was slow to react to RT before and that it hasn't changed at this time might be a sign it's turning.  All the best Peter 

User
Posted 04 Oct 2022 at 12:33

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

Hi Chris,

If I had a psa record like yours one thought would be it was slow to react to RT before and that it hasn't changed at this time might be a sign it's turning.  All the best Peter 

Pete

Some time ago I started recording my PSA in a spreadsheet, only because it was an easy format to use. I progressed to adding formulas and analysing data, not because of anxiety, I just like to know where I am going. 

Based on my data , without treatment my last PSA would have been between 2.1 and at worst 2.5, so no rise is obviously promising.

I will see an oncologist this afternoon.

Thanks Chris 

 

User
Posted 04 Oct 2022 at 16:46

Hope your PSA starts to fall soon Chris. 

Ido4

User
Posted 04 Oct 2022 at 18:44

Thanks guys, went to see my oncologist today, he said the blood test was too early. He also said PSA will fall slower because I had RT without HT. Next appointment 3/4 months, but he expects the lowest reading to be in six months time.  What did surprise me slightly was if the PSA does start to rise and hits 2.5 we would repeat the process again.

Thanks Chris 

User
Posted 04 Oct 2022 at 19:24

That must take some weight off your mind. It's great to have a back-up option of trying again plus four interesting points. 

If I can repeat them   1. The test was too early. 2. Psa lowest at 6 months.  3. The slower fall without hormones. 4. That they'll try again. 

Let's hope it's fine. Peter

 

User
Posted 04 Oct 2022 at 20:21

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

Thanks guys, went to see my oncologist today, he said the blood test was too early. He also said PSA will fall slower because I had RT without HT. Next appointment 3/4 months, but he expects the lowest reading to be in six months time.  What did surprise me slightly was if the PSA does start to rise and hits 2.5 we would repeat the process again.

Thanks Chris 

Relief! 

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 04 Oct 2022 at 22:10
Good news Chris

Cheers

Bill

User
Posted 05 Oct 2022 at 05:26
Repeat which process? Scan and treat other areas or re treat the same node?
User
Posted 05 Oct 2022 at 07:47

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
Repeat which process? Scan and treat other areas or re treat the same node?

Francij, a very good question, I took it to mean scan and treat other areas. I really must start writing questions down before the meeting. I meant to ask," had they actually hit the target", but I got distracted by other subjects  â˜šī¸.

In hindsight, the meeting was more a check to see if I was suffering any side effects from treatment rather than the outcome of the treatment.

Thanks Chris 

 

User
Posted 05 Oct 2022 at 10:12

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

Thanks guys, went to see my oncologist today, he said the blood test was too early. He also said PSA will fall slower because I had RT without HT. Next appointment 3/4 months, but he expects the lowest reading to be in six months time.  What did surprise me slightly was if the PSA does start to rise and hits 2.5 we would repeat the process again.

Thanks Chris 

Hi Chris,

Really interesting point that PSA will fall slower because you had RT without HT..

I have a daft question; what is the optimum time to test PSA post RT, and what is it about RT that kills cancer cells?

Regards, 

Kev.

 

User
Posted 05 Oct 2022 at 13:03

Kev T , interesting questions not daft, I am afraid they are above my pay grade,😀. I am sure the scholars will have the answers. 

Thanks Chris 

User
Posted 07 Oct 2022 at 17:47
Sounds positive Chris 🤞

Kev T they usually test 6 months after RT. Having said that it took about 2.5 years for my PSA to hit its lowest point after RT

Bri

User
Posted 07 Oct 2022 at 17:56
Reassuring for Chris and for many others others here, like mi oh.
User
Posted 08 Oct 2022 at 21:36

I'm no expert.  My basic understanding is that EBRT destroys all cells it comes into contact with.  The important thing is that the healthy cells killed will regenerate.  For some reason, which remains a mystery to me, the cancerous cells won't.  Once they're dead they're dead in other words.

User
Posted 08 Oct 2022 at 21:47
As long as I know radio damages DNA. For some reason I ignore, malignant cells are not able to recover from that damage and over time they will die whereas the normal cells can fight and defeat the harm caused by radio.
User
Posted 08 Oct 2022 at 23:15

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

I'm no expert.  My basic understanding is that EBRT destroys all cells it comes into contact with.  The important thing is that the healthy cells killed will regenerate.  For some reason, which remains a mystery to me, the cancerous cells won't.  Once they're dead they're dead in other words.

The RT is not intended to destroy cells. A necrotic prostate would be a seriously life threatening condition.

The RT exploits a property of cancer cells, in that they became cancer cells because their DNA got corrupted and they failed to repair it. Cell DNA gets regularly corrupted, so cells have a variety of ways of correcting it depending on the corruption. While the DNA is corrupt, the cell disables dividing and multiplying (which is its reproduction mechanism, although reproduction is the wrong word). Cancer cells generally have 4 faults, 1) the DNA is corrupt, 2) the DNA repair mechanism isn't working, 3) the corruption is not bad enough to prevent the cells dividing and multiplying, 4) the programmed cell death (apotosis) which happens in healthy cells before a cell reaches old age stops working.

The radiotherapy sets about to corrupt the DNA in all the cells, mainly by splitting water molecules into highly reactive free radicials, which react with parts of the DNA chain, corrupting it. Healthy cells will invoke their DNA repair mechanism and repair this damage. Cancer cells generally can't do this because their DNA repair mechanism is broken. Then next day, you hit them all with another round of RT. This corrupts all the DNA again, and healthy cells repair their DNA again. Cancer cells couldn't, and now have two lots of corruptions to their DNA. As the RT continues over time, you can see that damage is cumulative in the cancer cells, but the healthy cells are repairing themselves each time. By the end of the radiotherapy, the cumulative damage to the cancer cells should be enough to make them incapable of dividing and multiplying any more, i.e. they're no longer malignant. They may not be dead yet, and can take a couple of years to die, but providing they can no longer multiply, the cancer cannot grow and spread, and eventually all the cancer cells will die of old age.

This is why (if you aren't on HT) it takes time after the RT for the PSA to drop to a minimum as the cancer cells die over that period. The prostate is capable of some regeneration. So, as the cancer cells die, some will be replaced with healthy cells, and PSA will likely rise a bit. You can get PSA bounces, and this is thought to be due to your immune system occasionally spotting there are a lot of dying cancer cells and attacking them, although the cause of PSA bounces isn't well understood.

The RT does also cause collateral damage to some healthy cells, and this is what causes the various RT side effects.

User
Posted 09 Oct 2022 at 09:15

Andy , brilliant and  interesting reply. In my situation the SABR treatment was applied to a lymph node after surgery and salvage RT , the latter was 4 years ago and no HT. 

Do you have an explanation on how RT works on  single or multiple sources.

Thanks Chris 

User
Posted 23 Jan 2023 at 13:51

Hi, a bit of a disappointing result, PSA gone upto 3.1 from.1.8 in September. The biggest rate of rise in the last nine years. See the oncologist tomorrow to see what the plan is.Do you get a bounce with SABR treatment, are the cells screaming ?

Thanks Chris 

Edited by member 23 Jan 2023 at 13:55  | Reason: Not specified

 
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