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new here and slightly terrified

User
Posted 21 Mar 2016 at 13:21

My OH (now 65) was first diagnosed in 2014 (PSA 13, MRI, TRUS biopsy, Gleason 3+3, T2, N0), went onto active surveillance

This year, after repeat MRI, which showed new areas of concern, a template biopsy showed Gleason 3+4, with the 4s being in the new area. PSA varies between 11 and 14. Bone scan clear

Have seen urologist, oncologist and now surgeon. OH is now scheduled for robotic prostatectomy and the end of April

We have booked to see another consultant privately to ensure that surgery really is the only option now ie what about non-NHS treatments like Cyberknife type treatment or HIFU

Suspect that as cancer is in most areas of prostate, surgery really is the only way to go

He is keeping very busy and seeing lots of friends and going out. I have to keep working and keep positive for him and I'm finding it really hard. I am scared that I will not manage to help him after surgery. I know he will be devastated if he remains incontinent. He is very fit and healthy and plays lots of tennis. As for ED .....!! He puts on a very positive face to other people (but not to me) so they don't realise the scale of things. People respond with tales of their uncle, dad, neighbour etc who had PCa for years and never had any effect or anything. But you only really appreciate all the potential issue once it happens to you and every man and every Ca is different

User
Posted 21 Mar 2016 at 15:19

I got so sick of people telling us it was the best cancer to get, and tales of their uncle who lived till he was 180. My husband was only 50 and it is terrifying to hear the word cancer, regardless of what type. I did learn a technique for the insensitive people though. My sister-in-law rallied us with the news that her very aged father-in-law had been operated on many years before and was'absolutely fine'. I asked her "how many incontinence pads does he get through each day and does he use a vacuum pump or injections to get an erection?" which was met with a stunned silence. Of course she had never discussed such personal matters with him and had no idea of the potential side effects. I liked the reaction so much, I came to use it quite regularly.

After John's cancer came back a couple of years later, I heard someone in the pub comment about it not being a big deal and John (unusually for him) reacted in similar fashion. It embarrassed the insensitive person but also resulted in some of our other friends wanting to know more and I am quite sure improved their awareness of the importance of getting PSA tests.

The most bizarre reaction was from one of John's staff who after John was diagnosed would hang around at the office door when he needed to check or discuss something. In the end J said "you can come in ... It isn't contagious" to which the guy replied "well you can't be sure of that can you?"

Edited by member 21 Mar 2016 at 15:22  | Reason: Not specified

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 21 Mar 2016 at 14:10

Hello BJS and welcome to the site

Have you obtained "The Toolkit" from this site.
It has lots of information on all aspects of Prostate Cancer, including emotions etc.

Well worth applying for. Just ring one of the nurses on this site and ask for a copy.

Did your husband go for Robotic surgery because it was the only option he was given or was it a choice made by him. You say he's seen the urologist, oncologist and then the surgeon. Did neither the urologist or oncologist make any suggestions or did they think surgery was the best route to take?

As far as incontinence and ED are concerned, they'll be many on here (well everyone actually!) who will tell you there is no hard and fast rule, ie choose this treatment and it's guaranteed they won't happen.

Try and make sure that if he does go down the route of surgery, that you are prepared at home with the practical stuff he'll need (even if only on a temporary basis. ie pads, protective bedding etc.

It would seem that most men react differently, even if the grading and treatment is the same. One might be continent virtually straight away, another might never get it back. The same with ED. Have you been able to discuss this side of things with him and reassure him?

You will find it hard to keep up a cheerful front for him. All us wives try that but it is very draining. All you can do is your best.
If he wants to talk about it all to you, then let him. It will be a great help to him. There are men on here who will tell you that their wives can't/don't want to discuss it. There are wives/partners on here who will say their other halves prefer to keep quiet and not talk about it at all. If neither of you communicates then obviously a lot gets left unsaid and that can lead to frustration and misunderstanding.

Just don't feel that you have to carry the burden alone. When it all gets too much (and believe me we really do understand how that feels) then come back to us and let us help.

As for people reciting their father, brother, uncle Tom Cobbly and all, well often it's their way of try to lift you and reassure you because they don't know what else to say. Try not to be offended by it.

It is irritating though when people say "Oh well, if you're going to get cancer then Prostate Cancer is one of the best to get because the success rate is so high"
Yeah, right. But to be one of that success rate you have to travel roads they couldn't dream of. They know no better.

He could start his pelvic floor exercises. Some people, including doctors, say it helps in the long run. He won't lose anything by practising them anyway.

Don't look for trouble, it may not happen. When you go to any of the appointments with him, take a note book and pen. Write down before you go, any questions you might want to ask. (You've probably been down these routes anyway since he was diagnosed in 2014 - so it's not new to you is it)
Formulating questions is helpful with the use of The Toolkit which is why we always go on about it.

I wish you both well. We are here for you both. Anything at all you want to know, just ask, somebody is bound to have experienced it.

Sandra

Edited by member 21 Mar 2016 at 14:13  | Reason: Not specified

We can't control the winds - but we can adjust our sails
User
Posted 21 Mar 2016 at 15:03

Hi BJS,

Sandra pretty much summed things up....

We all know only too well 'that feeling' when first diagnosed..

Just one thing...... With your OH's current staging, unless there is an underlying reason, I would be very surprised if surgery were to be your only option...

We are all different in how we see things...... and remember side effects and their severity are not the same for everyone regardless of what treatment path you decide on..

For me, surgery was the 'right choice'........ but I still suffer with side effects that are slowly improving.

To date, since surgery my PSA level has remained 'undetectable' which is a good indication that the procedure has remained successful......

Hopefully it will stay that way, but there are no guarantees  in this game...

For my part I chose the treatment that I and my MDT team felt gave me the best chance of success first time......  Side effects and their severity were addressed as, or if, they occurred afterwards.... 

Best wishes
Luther






 

User
Posted 21 Mar 2016 at 16:26
Hi,

I've just returned from meeting a friend from my former workplace. He was asking me many questions about how I was coping 14 months post RT.

He said that he was amazed by what we all have to go through for many years afterwards. He was though sensitive to the emotions that we all carry with us and recalled with affection the constant use of the fan on my desk. Apparently it's much quieter in the office since I retired !

As many of us look quite well after treatments it's easy for people to think that we are all ok. But as we know that is not always the case.

I now try to keep quiet about PCa especially when meeting people for the first time. I might now say that I've some serious health issues. But I'm quite happy to explain in more detail if I'm asked questions . I've heard that phrase " it's an easy cancer to have " so often as well. I sometimes retort " well "I diidnt think so upon diagnosis".

BJS, I hope that all goes well for you both. My wife has been very supportive throughout my treatments (HT/RT ) but can struggle sometimes with it. In particular I think she finds the emotional wreck I can become with HT ( tearfulness )very difficult. But hopefully you will be spared that aspect of treatment.

We do talk about where we are with it all. She acknowledges that sometimes I cannot cope with some situations and will try to plan around that.

Good luck

John

User
Posted 21 Mar 2016 at 17:37
Yes,

I like all the racquet sports. They're something I really enjoy. Sadly I do not play squash now ( which I loved ) but still enjoy playing both tennis and badminton on a weekly basis.

You must understand that I have not had surgery so cannot advise you regarding that and playing tennis .

But on the morning of the day I started RT (and was 4 months into HT) I played 3 sets of tennis for over 2 hours . I gave it my all that day as I really did not know when I'd be playing again. I was given a good send off by all there that morning which was really great. Home for lunch and then I went to the cancer centre for the first of 37 fractions .

You'll need to take advice when it's possible to play after surgery, but for me it was about 2 months after RT finished. I really did not have the stamina nor inclination to play before . HT can be very tiring ( and still can be for me but far less so now ) but the RT fatigue had worn off by then.

My legs were still very 'dead' for 2-3 months so I knew when I'd overdone it . His body will tell him when it's time to stop playing. As long as he lets people know what to expect he'll be fine.

I play as a mid week member of a local club and I popped down to see everyone for coffee even if I couldn't play. Keeping in the social way is good for recovery even if it's frustrating that you can't play.

Initially I played one set upon returning and slowly built up to being able to play as normal within a few months.

Underarm serves are probably the best way to return to playing. Quite legal and often very effective. And avoiding overhead smashes too.

But the time will pass quite quickly and I'm sure that he'll be playing sometime later this year.

Similar situation for badminton too although there is far more stretching in that sport. This I left for about 7-8 months but that was fine as it was during the summer and I play badminton more as a winter sport.

The lads at the club asked me how I was coping too and one directly asked about ED . There was stunned silence and then some embarrassed laughter when I told them what I'm going through. Accompanied by the look of relief it wasn't happening to them ! One club member died of T4 PCa cancer about 3 years ago so there much goodwill for me from there.

Hoping this helps.

John

User
Posted 21 Mar 2016 at 18:52
We didn't know what to expect either.

Until I had the biopsy I was led to believe that I'd be heading for surgery with T2b but this was then regraded as T3a. This meant I'd bypass surgery and go straight to HT and then RT.

Sometimes you can be aware of too much before something actually happens. You may find that it's not as bad as you might think it will be. I recall spending hours discussing with my wife how I might feel. What would fatigue actually be like ? Would my body really change whilst on HT ? Would RT side effects really be as awful as that ?

Well we've coped with it. It's not always been easy but we've got through the worst. We are more resilient now and more positive too. And I think that we are closer as well.

We try to enjoy everyday together.

John

User
Posted 21 Mar 2016 at 18:55

Hi Great advice already given

Regarding the pelvic floor exercises. If he wants to check he is doing it right ask him to try one mid flow. If he stops weeing he is doing them right

Bri

User
Posted 21 Mar 2016 at 20:27
Hi BJS

I understand how difficult all of this is for you both as we felt the same. We took on board possible outcomes and decided on RALP. We knew possible side effects but decided to face what happened when it happened and not before. Following the op I decided to mot rush anything but to play the long game and do what felt right at the time for me. This approach has worked for me so far and seven months on there is nothing that I was doing pre op that I am not doing now. BUT I am one of the ones who is facing salvage therapy as I was never PSA Undetectable following surgery. We knew this was a possibilty and so are not upset by it and are using the same philosophy of deal with each problem when it arises, consider the possibilties and make a decision

I am lucky that I have the luxury of being retired but I am sure you will make the best decision between you.

Very best wishes to you both

Kevan

Show Most Thanked Posts
User
Posted 21 Mar 2016 at 14:10

Hello BJS and welcome to the site

Have you obtained "The Toolkit" from this site.
It has lots of information on all aspects of Prostate Cancer, including emotions etc.

Well worth applying for. Just ring one of the nurses on this site and ask for a copy.

Did your husband go for Robotic surgery because it was the only option he was given or was it a choice made by him. You say he's seen the urologist, oncologist and then the surgeon. Did neither the urologist or oncologist make any suggestions or did they think surgery was the best route to take?

As far as incontinence and ED are concerned, they'll be many on here (well everyone actually!) who will tell you there is no hard and fast rule, ie choose this treatment and it's guaranteed they won't happen.

Try and make sure that if he does go down the route of surgery, that you are prepared at home with the practical stuff he'll need (even if only on a temporary basis. ie pads, protective bedding etc.

It would seem that most men react differently, even if the grading and treatment is the same. One might be continent virtually straight away, another might never get it back. The same with ED. Have you been able to discuss this side of things with him and reassure him?

You will find it hard to keep up a cheerful front for him. All us wives try that but it is very draining. All you can do is your best.
If he wants to talk about it all to you, then let him. It will be a great help to him. There are men on here who will tell you that their wives can't/don't want to discuss it. There are wives/partners on here who will say their other halves prefer to keep quiet and not talk about it at all. If neither of you communicates then obviously a lot gets left unsaid and that can lead to frustration and misunderstanding.

Just don't feel that you have to carry the burden alone. When it all gets too much (and believe me we really do understand how that feels) then come back to us and let us help.

As for people reciting their father, brother, uncle Tom Cobbly and all, well often it's their way of try to lift you and reassure you because they don't know what else to say. Try not to be offended by it.

It is irritating though when people say "Oh well, if you're going to get cancer then Prostate Cancer is one of the best to get because the success rate is so high"
Yeah, right. But to be one of that success rate you have to travel roads they couldn't dream of. They know no better.

He could start his pelvic floor exercises. Some people, including doctors, say it helps in the long run. He won't lose anything by practising them anyway.

Don't look for trouble, it may not happen. When you go to any of the appointments with him, take a note book and pen. Write down before you go, any questions you might want to ask. (You've probably been down these routes anyway since he was diagnosed in 2014 - so it's not new to you is it)
Formulating questions is helpful with the use of The Toolkit which is why we always go on about it.

I wish you both well. We are here for you both. Anything at all you want to know, just ask, somebody is bound to have experienced it.

Sandra

Edited by member 21 Mar 2016 at 14:13  | Reason: Not specified

We can't control the winds - but we can adjust our sails
User
Posted 21 Mar 2016 at 15:03

Hi BJS,

Sandra pretty much summed things up....

We all know only too well 'that feeling' when first diagnosed..

Just one thing...... With your OH's current staging, unless there is an underlying reason, I would be very surprised if surgery were to be your only option...

We are all different in how we see things...... and remember side effects and their severity are not the same for everyone regardless of what treatment path you decide on..

For me, surgery was the 'right choice'........ but I still suffer with side effects that are slowly improving.

To date, since surgery my PSA level has remained 'undetectable' which is a good indication that the procedure has remained successful......

Hopefully it will stay that way, but there are no guarantees  in this game...

For my part I chose the treatment that I and my MDT team felt gave me the best chance of success first time......  Side effects and their severity were addressed as, or if, they occurred afterwards.... 

Best wishes
Luther






 

User
Posted 21 Mar 2016 at 15:19

I got so sick of people telling us it was the best cancer to get, and tales of their uncle who lived till he was 180. My husband was only 50 and it is terrifying to hear the word cancer, regardless of what type. I did learn a technique for the insensitive people though. My sister-in-law rallied us with the news that her very aged father-in-law had been operated on many years before and was'absolutely fine'. I asked her "how many incontinence pads does he get through each day and does he use a vacuum pump or injections to get an erection?" which was met with a stunned silence. Of course she had never discussed such personal matters with him and had no idea of the potential side effects. I liked the reaction so much, I came to use it quite regularly.

After John's cancer came back a couple of years later, I heard someone in the pub comment about it not being a big deal and John (unusually for him) reacted in similar fashion. It embarrassed the insensitive person but also resulted in some of our other friends wanting to know more and I am quite sure improved their awareness of the importance of getting PSA tests.

The most bizarre reaction was from one of John's staff who after John was diagnosed would hang around at the office door when he needed to check or discuss something. In the end J said "you can come in ... It isn't contagious" to which the guy replied "well you can't be sure of that can you?"

Edited by member 21 Mar 2016 at 15:22  | Reason: Not specified

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 21 Mar 2016 at 15:27

thanks both. I think all the docs are favouring surgery as OH is relatively young and fit and they want to keep radiotherapy in reserve. The oncologist said that in the cores that had cancer, at least 50% of each core was positive. There were also urinary symptoms that made them recommend surgery. Of course no one will say you "must" have one treatment or another, which make is very difficult for him as he hates making decisions. He is religiously doing his PF exercises but stressing that he isn't doing them right. Hard for me to advise given the difference in anatomy! Has anyone on here gone down the route of getting a ?physio/pilates instructor or someone to help? He is very open to talking to me and his friends about everything, but only I get the negative side (which is fine, I can handle that and would much rather he did that than bottle it up)
Will get on and ask for that Toolkit
I think what I find hard is that all along I have been so sure he will be OK and now I am starting to doubt it a bit
B

User
Posted 21 Mar 2016 at 15:48

Hi Lyn - I'm afraid I was probably guilty is the past of saying things like its not a bad cancer to get etc. I rather cringe at the memory now. I love your response and will keep it in reserve for future use
Contagious cancer! A new one on me!
B

User
Posted 21 Mar 2016 at 16:26
Hi,

I've just returned from meeting a friend from my former workplace. He was asking me many questions about how I was coping 14 months post RT.

He said that he was amazed by what we all have to go through for many years afterwards. He was though sensitive to the emotions that we all carry with us and recalled with affection the constant use of the fan on my desk. Apparently it's much quieter in the office since I retired !

As many of us look quite well after treatments it's easy for people to think that we are all ok. But as we know that is not always the case.

I now try to keep quiet about PCa especially when meeting people for the first time. I might now say that I've some serious health issues. But I'm quite happy to explain in more detail if I'm asked questions . I've heard that phrase " it's an easy cancer to have " so often as well. I sometimes retort " well "I diidnt think so upon diagnosis".

BJS, I hope that all goes well for you both. My wife has been very supportive throughout my treatments (HT/RT ) but can struggle sometimes with it. In particular I think she finds the emotional wreck I can become with HT ( tearfulness )very difficult. But hopefully you will be spared that aspect of treatment.

We do talk about where we are with it all. She acknowledges that sometimes I cannot cope with some situations and will try to plan around that.

Good luck

John

User
Posted 21 Mar 2016 at 16:29

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

I got so sick of people telling us it was the best cancer to get, and tales of their uncle who lived till he was 180. My husband was only 50 and it is terrifying to hear the word cancer, regardless of what type. I did learn a technique for the insensitive people though. My sister-in-law rallied us with the news that her very aged father-in-law had been operated on many years before and was'absolutely fine'. I asked her "how many incontinence pads does he get through each day and does he use a vacuum pump or injections to get an erection?" which was met with a stunned silence. Of course she had never discussed such personal matters with him and had no idea of the potential side effects. I liked the reaction so much, I came to use it quite regularly.

After John's cancer came back a couple of years later, I heard someone in the pub comment about it not being a big deal and John (unusually for him) reacted in similar fashion. It embarrassed the insensitive person but also resulted in some of our other friends wanting to know more and I am quite sure improved their awareness of the importance of getting PSA tests.
The most bizarre reaction was from one of John's staff who after John was diagnosed would hang around at the office door when he needed to check or discuss something. In the end J said "you can come in ... It isn't contagious" to which the guy replied "well you can't be sure of that can you?"



Nice one Lyn!.. http://community.prostatecanceruk.org/editors/tiny_mce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-smile.gif

I very often get comments from ' acquaintances ' in my village when I'm out and about with the dogs.....

" Coo!.. you look fit and healthy  everything fine now then? "

Perhaps I should tell them, " Yeah!... all ok for now....apart from having to wear a pad 24/ 7 and needing mechanical and /or  chemical help to 'get it up'  in the bedroom" 

They really have no idea....... it's not hard to see how people with no experience of the disease can have these misconceptions...

Luther

User
Posted 21 Mar 2016 at 17:01

Surr33, do I gather from the pic that you are a keen tennis player? How soon did you get back to playing and to what extent has the treatment affected it? OH's surgeon said no tennis for at least 3 months and probably longer and then he might have to adapt his serve etc to cope with pressure on the bladder. Tennis is a very important part of his life. Don't know what he woudl do without it
I think the only contact many people have with PCa (until if affects them or their OH) is through older relatives. And I certainly couldn't imagine having a conversation about ED etc with my father, so they assume all is OK
And where are the TV ads for men about what pad companies euphemistically call "sensitive bladder"? It's a hidden issue

User
Posted 21 Mar 2016 at 17:37
Yes,

I like all the racquet sports. They're something I really enjoy. Sadly I do not play squash now ( which I loved ) but still enjoy playing both tennis and badminton on a weekly basis.

You must understand that I have not had surgery so cannot advise you regarding that and playing tennis .

But on the morning of the day I started RT (and was 4 months into HT) I played 3 sets of tennis for over 2 hours . I gave it my all that day as I really did not know when I'd be playing again. I was given a good send off by all there that morning which was really great. Home for lunch and then I went to the cancer centre for the first of 37 fractions .

You'll need to take advice when it's possible to play after surgery, but for me it was about 2 months after RT finished. I really did not have the stamina nor inclination to play before . HT can be very tiring ( and still can be for me but far less so now ) but the RT fatigue had worn off by then.

My legs were still very 'dead' for 2-3 months so I knew when I'd overdone it . His body will tell him when it's time to stop playing. As long as he lets people know what to expect he'll be fine.

I play as a mid week member of a local club and I popped down to see everyone for coffee even if I couldn't play. Keeping in the social way is good for recovery even if it's frustrating that you can't play.

Initially I played one set upon returning and slowly built up to being able to play as normal within a few months.

Underarm serves are probably the best way to return to playing. Quite legal and often very effective. And avoiding overhead smashes too.

But the time will pass quite quickly and I'm sure that he'll be playing sometime later this year.

Similar situation for badminton too although there is far more stretching in that sport. This I left for about 7-8 months but that was fine as it was during the summer and I play badminton more as a winter sport.

The lads at the club asked me how I was coping too and one directly asked about ED . There was stunned silence and then some embarrassed laughter when I told them what I'm going through. Accompanied by the look of relief it wasn't happening to them ! One club member died of T4 PCa cancer about 3 years ago so there much goodwill for me from there.

Hoping this helps.

John

User
Posted 21 Mar 2016 at 17:49

thanks John. Glad to hear you are playing again
Must admit that I am weeping reading about what everyone has gone through and continues to go through and thinking that this is the future for my OH.
Many of our friends and family have been very positive and supportive but they don't have half the idea of everything that can and probably will happen, just as I didn't before all this
I am just so very very sad at the moment and can see that this community might become very important to me
B

User
Posted 21 Mar 2016 at 18:52
We didn't know what to expect either.

Until I had the biopsy I was led to believe that I'd be heading for surgery with T2b but this was then regraded as T3a. This meant I'd bypass surgery and go straight to HT and then RT.

Sometimes you can be aware of too much before something actually happens. You may find that it's not as bad as you might think it will be. I recall spending hours discussing with my wife how I might feel. What would fatigue actually be like ? Would my body really change whilst on HT ? Would RT side effects really be as awful as that ?

Well we've coped with it. It's not always been easy but we've got through the worst. We are more resilient now and more positive too. And I think that we are closer as well.

We try to enjoy everyday together.

John

User
Posted 21 Mar 2016 at 18:55

Hi Great advice already given

Regarding the pelvic floor exercises. If he wants to check he is doing it right ask him to try one mid flow. If he stops weeing he is doing them right

Bri

User
Posted 21 Mar 2016 at 20:27
Hi BJS

I understand how difficult all of this is for you both as we felt the same. We took on board possible outcomes and decided on RALP. We knew possible side effects but decided to face what happened when it happened and not before. Following the op I decided to mot rush anything but to play the long game and do what felt right at the time for me. This approach has worked for me so far and seven months on there is nothing that I was doing pre op that I am not doing now. BUT I am one of the ones who is facing salvage therapy as I was never PSA Undetectable following surgery. We knew this was a possibilty and so are not upset by it and are using the same philosophy of deal with each problem when it arises, consider the possibilties and make a decision

I am lucky that I have the luxury of being retired but I am sure you will make the best decision between you.

Very best wishes to you both

Kevan

User
Posted 21 Mar 2016 at 20:32
B

As Bri says stopping mid stream is a good indicator that pelvic floor muscles are being exersised,but only use it as a test,not on a regular basis. Post op do not do PFEs with the catheter in. If you get the technique right and sit on a firm chair you can actually feel that you have isolated the pelvic muscles. Imagine you are trying to stop passing wind is another piece of advice given to get them right. I downloaded an app "prostate aerobics" for my smartphone that has three alarm reminders of when to do them. It also has a audio and visual prompt to focus the mind on doing them and 9 sets of exercises.

There is a guaranteed way of knowing that the PFEs are done correctly but that involves another probe,I declined that one.

Stay positive.

Thanks Chris

User
Posted 21 Mar 2016 at 21:45

Thanks. We'll look into the phone app and huge thanks for all the responses and advice
B

User
Posted 22 Mar 2016 at 18:16
Hi bjs it can all be very daunting but this online community is great for high and low days. Lyn I thought your response is brilliant if you don't mind might steal that one from you 😊 get so frustrated sometimes with people say to you favourites are be positive yes we all try along with you are putting up a good fight - it's not a fair fight so patronising, people have no idea.
 
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