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Not sure of operation or radio therapy

User
Posted 15 Apr 2016 at 21:21
Hi everyone

I have been diagnosed last week T3A local advanced so it's broken the capsule but not the prostrate but on one side only

Have been given options

Operation or radiation

They have advised operation to ensure they get it

Op leaves too many issues Erectile disfunction, water leakage etc is this actually true ? Is there a chance I won't get these problems

Radiation must work as they seem negative about it

What's wrong with radiation. They give me the impression there is a big chance it will not work

Confusing

Is there anyone who can give advice , is there anyone who had this choice and went for radiation and everything turned out well

I just don't know what to go for so any help would be appreciated

Danny

User
Posted 16 Apr 2016 at 01:13

Hi Danny,

Welcome to our community.  Sorry you find yourself here but you will always find support here.

It would be helpful for you to download the "Toolkit" from the publications section of this website as it will give you loads of useful info.

I know it's a confusing time at the moment but I'm sure you will be given good advice here because the advice will come from those who have actually experienced the various treatments.

I was diagnosed in June 2014, PSA 48.85, Gleason 7 (4+3), T3, High Risk Locally Advanced Cancer.  I wasn't given the option of surgery (as I was told, in my case, there was a greater risk of it spreading because of the op) but was put on Hormone Therapy for two years and had a four week course of Radiotherapy in October 2014.

One thing I think I would say is that whatever form of treatment you have probably comes with side effects for most people. 

Hormone treatment has caused me to have ED, Hot Flushes, Weight gain, Fatigue and be highly emotional at times.  Following Radiotherapy, I suffered rectal bleeding and bowel problems which for several weeks I could only describe as bowel incontinence.  I said at the time, I wish I had urinary incontinence instead because what I went through was far more unpleasant to deal with.  Not everyone has the side effects to the same degree but it's something you have to think about when you're making decisions about treatment.

Having said that, I'm pleased that my treatment appears to have gone very well with my PSA down to 0.027 (Nov 2015).  I just had another PSA test yesterday, so I hope the downward trend continues.

May I wish you all the luck in the World with whatever treatment you decide on.  It may be good if you can post your PSA and Gleason score as it will help people give you the best advice.

Take care.

Steve

 

 

Edited by member 16 Apr 2016 at 01:17  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 16 Apr 2016 at 02:08

Hi Danny,

Welcome to this forum but sorry it is due to a PCa diagnosis that brings you here.

At the end of the day it is going to be you who will have to decide which of the options open to you that you plump for, so to help you make this decision you need to research each of these treatments and PCa from reliable sources. A good place to start is the 'Toolkit' , available from the main part of this site.

There are potential side effects with all treatments and it is not really possible to predict how severely these will affect an individual. Therefore, care must be taken not to be swayed by how a relatively small number of men may report how they were affected. They may not be representative in terms of side effects or outcomes. It also has to be remembered that there are different types of PCa, some of which are more radio resistant for example. It is also difficult to know precisely by how much the cancer has spread until the removed prostate is examined in the lab and not always then, assuming surgery was the treatment. With a T3A staging there is a strong possibility that surgery may need to be augmented with RT if RT is not the primary treatment. (It is very difficult to have surgery after RT and most surgeons will not do it.)

As a generalization, surgery has the worst immediate side effects in terms of incontinence and ED quickly improving for some whilst for others taking longer or in some cases never. With RT, after a relatively short term mostly incontinence passes but in the long term ED in particular becomes more likely and there is a small risk of another cancer being initiated years later. RT is also often accompanied by Hormone Therapy which also has varying side effects, loss of libido, premature fatigue, hot flushes sore nipples and growing breasts and weight gain are some of the possible side effects. HT can also affect men emotionally and in their behavior to some extent.

So before making your treatment decision I suggest you also ascertain whether with RT you would also have HT. Also, would the RT be Brachytherapy or External Beam or a combination of both? What type of surgery is on offer, Open, Robotic or Laparoscopic? Is your preferred choice to have surgery and possibly RT/HT thereafter or avoid surgery?

I wish you well in making your decision, I found it lifted a weight off my mind when I made mine.

Edited by member 16 Apr 2016 at 16:33  | Reason: Not specified

Barry
User
Posted 16 Apr 2016 at 07:52
Thanks fur your help

I'm being offered external RT with 3 months of HT or key hole surgery not robotic

I was told that there is no evidence that robotic is better fur you as Jess chance of ED

Apparently my surgeon is well respected mmm

User
Posted 16 Apr 2016 at 07:53
Thanks for replying

Just worried about op and ED

HT worries me also wish there was a magic wand

User
Posted 16 Apr 2016 at 07:53
Hi Danny

Good advice from Steve and Barry. I wasn't given a choice HT followed by radiotherapy, have a look at my profile to see my journey with PCa by clicking on my avatar

Arthur

User
Posted 16 Apr 2016 at 07:54
My PSA was 10 gleeson is 3 plus 4

What I am confused about is that 3 years ago I was diagnosed with enlarged prostrate but not given any treatment

Doctor did nothing

I feel if he had I would not be in this position now 😞

Edited by member 16 Apr 2016 at 08:03  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 16 Apr 2016 at 08:01
My PSA was 10 gleeson is 3 plus 4

One thing I am confused about us that I was diagnosed with enlarged prostrate 3 years ago but given no treatment

Doctor just left it. Is that normal

I feel if he had given me PSA test or sent me to consultant I wouldn't be where I am now

User
Posted 16 Apr 2016 at 09:13

Hi Danny, like Arthur I was not given a choice as my prostate is too clos to my rectum wall for surgery so had HT and RT and it has not been too unpleasant although have had all the side effects listed by the others, for some it is worse.

If you need somebody to actually talk to there is the specialist nurse on this site who you can telephone and I am sure that they will explain in simpler terms than doctors and give you practical information so that you can make a decision, unfortunately it is one that only you can make.

Regards Chris/Woody

Life seems different upside down, take another viewpoint

User
Posted 16 Apr 2016 at 11:07

Hi Danny

I had a prostatectomy 8 weeks ago, for what the biopsy showed was a 3+3. The MRI was unclear, but it seemed to be organ confined. 

When the tissue was checked after the op, it was reclassified as 3+4 (like yours) and was found to have escaped the prostate. My PSA is now undetectable <0.01. You might take from that that you should go for the op.  But that PSA reading can rise later. It's the same with Radiotherapy.

Currently, although pre op everything down there worked very well thankyou, I  have no erections that are functional, and am slightly incontinent. Both could improve with time. With radiotherapy as I understand it, you may have good function initially, only for erections to be problematic later on. In essence, you can't dodge the bullet.  If there were one treatment that was the best for scenarios such as yours and mine , we'd all be receiving  the same treatment. 

I 'ummed and ahhed' after receiving my biopsy results last ?October.  I'd read about MRI scanning techniques that my local hospital didn't use, but which might give the best chance of indentifying the location of the cancer to ensure its'complete removal. The time I wasted  fighting and losing that battle MIGHT have been better employed just having the op earlier. MAYBE removing the cancer that bit earlier would have meant it was removed before it broke through the capsule. Other people here will waste time and emotion trying to get a referral to the most highly experienced surgeon, only for things not to go as anticipated.

What I'm trying to say Danny, is that whilst you are right to 'gen up' on treatment options, and not to rush into a decision based on fear, there is a saying about the 'best' being the enemy of the 'good'.  In time you will commit to a choice of treatment.  There will be uncertainty as to whether or not you chose the 'best'. That's OK. Your life, like everyone else's on the planet, has been full of uncertainty since the day you were born. If you're like me, you may throw a few wobblies along the way. Nothing wrong in that whatsoever. So many people on this forum have been in your position and will be there to offer support, but ultimately the choice is yours.

User
Posted 16 Apr 2016 at 11:58

Danny, for some men the diagnosis is clear and there is no advantage to one treatment over another so they are given the choice and must decide themselves. In your case it seems there is a slightly different situation - your multidisciplinary team has looked at all your results and scans and advised that surgery would be better IN YOUR CASE. We are not medics and haven't seen your scans so we cannot know better than your team.

One of the important things about radiotherapy is minimising the collateral damage that the radiation does on its way through your flesh and organs to get to the prostate. Perhaps your tumour is very close to the bowel, or the bladder, or right in the apex and they are concerned that the radiation would leave you with too much damage to those organs.

The other possibility is that you have only seen a surgeon. Generally speaking, surgeons will recommend the op over radiotherapy (RT) while oncologists will advise RT over the op. It's natural to advise their own specialism over others if they think you are suitable. So you could phone your nurse specialist (were you given a phone number for one?) and ask him/her whether your results have been to a multi-disciplinary meeting or have they only been reviewed by the urologist? If only the uro, you can ask for a referral to an oncologist before you make a decision.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 16 Apr 2016 at 17:30

Danny,

As men grow older the Prostate enlarges, much more in some men than others so when you were examined previously it may have been enlarged more than average for a man of your age but was considered not sufficiently so to require treatment. It is possible that you also had early PCa and that any scan or biopsy did not show this up. But this would be speculative and you have to put this behind you. You were correctly advised that there is not much to choose between outcomes of the 3 methods of surgically removing the prostate. Robotic and Laparoscopic generally enable quicker healing but some surgeons consider they have a better feel with nothing between their fingers and and the scalpel so favour 'open' and that this procedure more easily facilitates the removal of any dubious lymph nodes. Not all hospital have the robot anyway. Surgical removal of the prostate is a delicate and quite complex operation and if possible surgeons try to spare nerves on one side if both sides cannot be saved as this plays a part in the chances of the man regaining erections at some stage. The skill of the surgeon plays a major part in this operation and best results are achieved by those who have done many operations and do them on a regular basis. Having said that, somebody has to be a surgeon's first, statically unlikely to be you!

Barry
User
Posted 17 Apr 2016 at 11:05
Hi Danny my husband had keyhole surgery end of Dec. Psa was 13 but came down to 9 just before operation he had water infection which was how pc was found. Gleason 3&4. For us it seemed better to remove than seem fearful of radiotherapy results also it was explained to us that if radiotherapy failed to remove all pc we were unlikely to be offered surgery. Paul is still slightly incontinent and has ed but we are working through this and have an excellent consultant supporting us. Paul is back at work full time, does get tired easily and a little grumpy when he can't do what he used to but overall he believes that he has made the right decision and so do I. Hope you find what is right for you soon as it's easier to deal with. Jx
User
Posted 17 Apr 2016 at 15:30
That is a great reply

Thanks walnut

Edited by member 17 Apr 2016 at 15:36  | Reason: Not specified

 
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