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Weakening immune system ?

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User
Posted 19 Apr 2016 at 07:52
Hi everyone
Some of you will have read my story and others not. I wanted to know if anyone out there feels that their immune system function has declined substantially since having PCa. I was always fit and healthy and despite having the worst diet habits in the house I NEVER used to pick up coughs and colds and bugs. I exercise every day with the dogs. Since RP 10 months ago and now being on Bicalutamide HT for the last 6 months I'm finding I seem to be permanently ill. Proper man-flu 6 weeks ago which put me in bed for 3 days and took ages to clear. And then recently a full NoroVirus type illness which floored me , yet my 6 yr old boy survived it even though we were on road trip together and in close contact. And now a full on cold again -- chest , nose , cough the lot.
Could this be cancer in general ( presently thought to be incurable psa 0.14 ) or could it be the Bicalutamide. I recently spoke to the pharmacist about my wretched daily stomach ache but forgot to ask about immune system.
Unfortunately I Dr Googled the sleeping tablet I am permanently on Zopiclone , and the results of that we're quite scary. It's not really supposed to be used long term but we find good sleep helps control my bipolar instead of being on mood stabilisers. This drug apparently has a high risk of promoting cancers and there were quite a lot of comments on reduced immunity. But my psyche said she had never heard of this. But something is going on .............
Chris
User
Posted 19 Apr 2016 at 11:24

Hi Chris,


A couple of thoughts:


1 - There has been a strong flu bug doing the rounds this spring, lots of fit youngsters got it, even my other half who religiously takes her flu vacine every autumn got it.


2 - Now I am retired, I can wake up in the morning, feeling I have a bit of a cold and think f*** it, roll over and have another hour in bed.  When I was at work I had to shrug it off, get up and get into work.  So maybe we now have time to sit about and wonder whether we feel well, minor colds just seem worst.


3 - I have mixed views about Dr Jane Plant's diet, sometimes I stick to it for weeks even months at a time, then I fancy Steak or Cheese.  But the year before I retired I did follow her diet to the letter, and I was the only one in the office who didn't have a day off sick that winter.  That's 20 blokes all younger and fitter than me.  Think about it all the onions, garlic, cabbage, chilli, garlic, celery, broccoli, garlic, not forgetting the ginger and garlic, the germs didn't stand a chance.


So I would give the Jane Plant diet a go, if only for a couple of weeks, see if it perks you up.  I mean in our condition it doesn't really matter if we stink of garlic does it, it's not like we are going out tonight on the pull?


:)


Dave     

User
Posted 19 Apr 2016 at 12:01

Chris

Have you had a full set of blood tests recently? I had the same symptoms in late 2014 through to March 2015 - often recurring heavy cold and cough culminating in a full blast chest infection needing antibiotics to shift it. Through that period, I was absolutely exhausted and feeling totally drained. Blood tests showed that my testosterone was virtually zero, and a later one that my thyroid was hardly working. Despite my PSA continually being <0.1 since prostate removal in 2010, I had the fight of all fights with endocrinology to persuade them that I wasn't going to get prostate cancer from testosterone replacement therapy. Now I am on TRT and taking Levothyroxine and have been rather better during this winter (but still very little energy). This winter has been very mild though. It might be worth having your bloods checked.

One issue with the thyroid is mood swings and hot flushes. Warn the family if the thyroid is your problem because it takes a while to get stabilised.

I did some research on TRT and was rather surprised to find that the jury is out on the connection between testosterone and prostate cancer, suggesting that the connection was based on a very small sample size way back in the 1940s. Just one highlight - nice lady endocrinologist wanted to do a rectal examination before prescibing TRT. I had to decline politely, suggesting she wouldn't find anything up there now....

Tony
TURP then LRP in 2009/2010. Lots of leakage but PSA < 0.1 AMS-800 Artificial Sphincter activated 2015.
User
Posted 19 Apr 2016 at 12:43
Hi Chris,

I've had 4 coughs and colds since Christmas. It started with a flu-like feeling in my head, then developed into a cold followed by a chesty cough. It was the same pattern each time. Never had this before - are there more bugs etc about this year?

I went to see the GP (unfortunately not able to see my own who is very good) when the cough was particularly bad, he asked questions such as did I smoke, was the mucous clear, did I cough up blood. The mucous was clear and the answer to the other questions was no.

He said it would go in a few days which it did, but unfortunately it returned again. I didn't bother to go back again.

I don't know what the answer is but hopefully it won't come back again

Arthur



User
Posted 19 Apr 2016 at 12:57

Hi Chris


I  suppose the trouble with the Zopiclone theory is that if you don't take them you won't sleep. But if your sleep is poor, then your immune system will be under stress- maybe more so than it currently is, using Z. But what's the alternative?


I use temazapam long term - probably about 20 10mg tabs every 2 months- to manage insomnia form chronic neck and head pain, which is exacerbated by intrusive thoughts. If I'm feeling relaxed, usually because of physical activity and there's no time pressure the following day, I can usually go without temazepam. I hear the studies that suggest an increased risk of dementia on long term use, but I would struggle to function without them. I already minimise their use, and even had the idea that I could use the post op time off work to try and wean further off them. But it hasn't happened. I need adequate sleep to feel like doing something beyond sitting in the chair to recover from the op.


- and if I don't sleep, I cope poorly with mental stress and eventually succumb to a series of minor infections.


Reading your story, I'd say you have well and truly been through the mill, dealing with the cancer and bipolar. It probably doesn't feel like it, after the bout of illnesses you describe, but it' seems a wonder that you haven't been falling prey to other infections before now. It's a major hurdle to change your medication to manage the mood swings, but to do that with the added obstacle of a spot of cancer- and then a major disruption in the levels of hormones- which, after all are the bodies' chemical messengers?? Give that man a medal!


I must say Chris, that online, you sound remarkably sorted, and all too human. I'm not surprised that your body is throwing a few wobblies. 


I enjoyed Dave Kirkham's response. In addition to the dietary advice, how about some relaxation therapy to aid sleep? I realise you're probably quite chilled at times, but this method might be new to you :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e59guruVL4o

User
Posted 19 Apr 2016 at 13:59

Haha Walnut
Pi***ed myself laughing at that. Remind me not to ask for your advice ever again :-))

User
Posted 19 Apr 2016 at 14:14

Yes...

Very funny Walnut.
User
Posted 19 Apr 2016 at 14:43

CJ


We had a guest speaker at our local support group last week who is a Professor at a cancer research facility looking into prostate and breast cancers as well as wellbeing in people, he did say that depression and the chemical changes it creates does suppress the immune system.


We perhaps need a few more you tube links to cheer us up.


Thanks Chris

User
Posted 19 Apr 2016 at 14:54
My cough and cold has been exterminated

Arthur
User
Posted 19 Apr 2016 at 22:18

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
My cough and cold has been exterminated

Arthur


I see this new therapy is gaining popular acceptance- but you can take an idea too far. 


I don't fancy my chances with Da Vros Robot Assisted Surgery- his scrotum's ended up on his head..and he doesn't look at all well.

Show Most Thanked Posts
User
Posted 19 Apr 2016 at 11:24

Hi Chris,


A couple of thoughts:


1 - There has been a strong flu bug doing the rounds this spring, lots of fit youngsters got it, even my other half who religiously takes her flu vacine every autumn got it.


2 - Now I am retired, I can wake up in the morning, feeling I have a bit of a cold and think f*** it, roll over and have another hour in bed.  When I was at work I had to shrug it off, get up and get into work.  So maybe we now have time to sit about and wonder whether we feel well, minor colds just seem worst.


3 - I have mixed views about Dr Jane Plant's diet, sometimes I stick to it for weeks even months at a time, then I fancy Steak or Cheese.  But the year before I retired I did follow her diet to the letter, and I was the only one in the office who didn't have a day off sick that winter.  That's 20 blokes all younger and fitter than me.  Think about it all the onions, garlic, cabbage, chilli, garlic, celery, broccoli, garlic, not forgetting the ginger and garlic, the germs didn't stand a chance.


So I would give the Jane Plant diet a go, if only for a couple of weeks, see if it perks you up.  I mean in our condition it doesn't really matter if we stink of garlic does it, it's not like we are going out tonight on the pull?


:)


Dave     

User
Posted 19 Apr 2016 at 12:01

Chris

Have you had a full set of blood tests recently? I had the same symptoms in late 2014 through to March 2015 - often recurring heavy cold and cough culminating in a full blast chest infection needing antibiotics to shift it. Through that period, I was absolutely exhausted and feeling totally drained. Blood tests showed that my testosterone was virtually zero, and a later one that my thyroid was hardly working. Despite my PSA continually being <0.1 since prostate removal in 2010, I had the fight of all fights with endocrinology to persuade them that I wasn't going to get prostate cancer from testosterone replacement therapy. Now I am on TRT and taking Levothyroxine and have been rather better during this winter (but still very little energy). This winter has been very mild though. It might be worth having your bloods checked.

One issue with the thyroid is mood swings and hot flushes. Warn the family if the thyroid is your problem because it takes a while to get stabilised.

I did some research on TRT and was rather surprised to find that the jury is out on the connection between testosterone and prostate cancer, suggesting that the connection was based on a very small sample size way back in the 1940s. Just one highlight - nice lady endocrinologist wanted to do a rectal examination before prescibing TRT. I had to decline politely, suggesting she wouldn't find anything up there now....

Tony
TURP then LRP in 2009/2010. Lots of leakage but PSA < 0.1 AMS-800 Artificial Sphincter activated 2015.
User
Posted 19 Apr 2016 at 12:43
Hi Chris,

I've had 4 coughs and colds since Christmas. It started with a flu-like feeling in my head, then developed into a cold followed by a chesty cough. It was the same pattern each time. Never had this before - are there more bugs etc about this year?

I went to see the GP (unfortunately not able to see my own who is very good) when the cough was particularly bad, he asked questions such as did I smoke, was the mucous clear, did I cough up blood. The mucous was clear and the answer to the other questions was no.

He said it would go in a few days which it did, but unfortunately it returned again. I didn't bother to go back again.

I don't know what the answer is but hopefully it won't come back again

Arthur



User
Posted 19 Apr 2016 at 12:57

Hi Chris


I  suppose the trouble with the Zopiclone theory is that if you don't take them you won't sleep. But if your sleep is poor, then your immune system will be under stress- maybe more so than it currently is, using Z. But what's the alternative?


I use temazapam long term - probably about 20 10mg tabs every 2 months- to manage insomnia form chronic neck and head pain, which is exacerbated by intrusive thoughts. If I'm feeling relaxed, usually because of physical activity and there's no time pressure the following day, I can usually go without temazepam. I hear the studies that suggest an increased risk of dementia on long term use, but I would struggle to function without them. I already minimise their use, and even had the idea that I could use the post op time off work to try and wean further off them. But it hasn't happened. I need adequate sleep to feel like doing something beyond sitting in the chair to recover from the op.


- and if I don't sleep, I cope poorly with mental stress and eventually succumb to a series of minor infections.


Reading your story, I'd say you have well and truly been through the mill, dealing with the cancer and bipolar. It probably doesn't feel like it, after the bout of illnesses you describe, but it' seems a wonder that you haven't been falling prey to other infections before now. It's a major hurdle to change your medication to manage the mood swings, but to do that with the added obstacle of a spot of cancer- and then a major disruption in the levels of hormones- which, after all are the bodies' chemical messengers?? Give that man a medal!


I must say Chris, that online, you sound remarkably sorted, and all too human. I'm not surprised that your body is throwing a few wobblies. 


I enjoyed Dave Kirkham's response. In addition to the dietary advice, how about some relaxation therapy to aid sleep? I realise you're probably quite chilled at times, but this method might be new to you :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e59guruVL4o

User
Posted 19 Apr 2016 at 13:56

Wow , this is really what this forum is all about. Thanks so much for the replies which obviously took time and effort. I'm very grateful. I think on the whole my diet is very average with everything in moderation. My drinking hasn't altered but is rather more than the recommended limits ahem !! I realise this can't be helping physically nor mentally , but those in the know will realise it's all a bit of a vicious circle.
Tony prior to PCa I was already on TRT and Thyroid replacement because of pituitary malfunction. You are dead right that new evidence is around re Testosterone and PCa. Even though I ended up G9T4N1MXR1 they didn't take me off TRT for 4 months , despite the warnings you read everywhere. But without a shadow of doubt once you HAVE PCa , you need to have Testosterone removed one way or another. I had bloods recently and liver , renal , chol and thyroid were good. Didn't have blood counts and may go back. But I hate making a fuss and it's a two week wait for the doctor these days.
Walnut thanks for a great response. I'll watch the video now. Relaxation and me are polar opposites. I have Diazepam and Zopiclone but rarely take Diazepam unless 3 nights without sleep. Zop tends to work 80% of the time. My psyche and Elaine trust me implicitly with drug management. I never take more than allowed and if anything avoid tablets as much as I can.
Thanks all for kind words
Chris

User
Posted 19 Apr 2016 at 13:59

Haha Walnut
Pi***ed myself laughing at that. Remind me not to ask for your advice ever again :-))

User
Posted 19 Apr 2016 at 14:14

Yes...

Very funny Walnut.
User
Posted 19 Apr 2016 at 14:43

CJ


We had a guest speaker at our local support group last week who is a Professor at a cancer research facility looking into prostate and breast cancers as well as wellbeing in people, he did say that depression and the chemical changes it creates does suppress the immune system.


We perhaps need a few more you tube links to cheer us up.


Thanks Chris

User
Posted 19 Apr 2016 at 14:54
My cough and cold has been exterminated

Arthur
User
Posted 19 Apr 2016 at 18:11

Chris

Started Zoladex aged 58. GP and CNS strongly advised I had the flu jab from then on. So i guess there must be some immunity link.

Ray

User
Posted 19 Apr 2016 at 22:18

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
My cough and cold has been exterminated

Arthur


I see this new therapy is gaining popular acceptance- but you can take an idea too far. 


I don't fancy my chances with Da Vros Robot Assisted Surgery- his scrotum's ended up on his head..and he doesn't look at all well.

User
Posted 19 Apr 2016 at 22:59

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member


Chris


Started Zoladex aged 58. GP and CNS strongly advised I had the flu jab from then on. So i guess there must be some immunity link.


Ray



 


I thought everyone that had been diagnosed with cancer was entitled to a flu jab but perhaps not. John has had one every year since diagnosis, whether he was under treatment or not. He doesn't ask for it so they must just send him an appointment automatically? 


 


Chris, your body has got enough on fighting cancer and other demons - your defences are bound to feel weakened, I think

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 20 Apr 2016 at 00:29

Hi Lynn,


I regularlly get pestered by my surgery to have a flu jab, including follow up phone calls as they work through their list of 'usual suspects' who have failed to attend for the flu jab.


Last years 2014/15 Flu jab was widely acknowledged to have been a failure, I recall they had a doctor on TV news, explaining that because of the need to manufacture sufficient vaccine, they had to sort of guess, best part of a year ahead, what virus strains were likely to be prevelent, and in 2014/15 they got it wrong.


I am sure I saw something in the paper to the effect that this years epedemic was due in part to the poor performance of the 2015/16 jab.


Thats why I don't have them, I'd rather trust to garlic, and when that doesn't work a stiff dose of Dr Haig, Dr Teachers or Dr Laophraig seems to do the trick.  


It is my personal choice, I would rather not take any medications at all, and only take those I am convinced will do me more good than harm.


Right at the moment I am having a battle with them over Statins.  Six months after I started on Zoladex they decided I was diabetic and put me on metformin tablets.  The diabetic nurse explained that while my cholestorol wasn't high by normal standards, they wanted it lower because they aim to keep diabetics cholestorol extra low. 


I took the statins for a few years, but then started to get a lot of cramp, looked it up on Internet, found statins caused cramp, so I stopped taking statins and the cramp stopped.


Since then I have lost a bit of weight, stopped taking the metformin, and my blood sugar level is perfectly normal.


To my way of thinking I don't have diabetes anymore, there is something on the Internet about it being brought on by HT.  I don't have HT anymore because my PSA is low enough without it, I don't take diabetic medcine anymore and my blood sugar is just fine.  But according to the surgery I am still diabetic it is just that it is so mild that my diet controlls it.


Sorry I am rambling a bit, my point is that it pays to be a little circumspect about all medicines and especially the flu jab, which in recent years has been about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.  Hard pressed GP's and their nurses haven't time to read back through all the detail of our medical histories and they just go by the numbers, PCa = Flujab, Diabetes = statins etc. 


I am all for this modern theory that we should take interest in our own health, learn what we can, and take the medicines that we feel are doing us good.  If one day I am laid so low by PCa that a dose of the flu finishes me off, then it will be a welcome release, and it will be no ones fault but mine that I didn't have the flu jab.  I take the decisions about my health and the buck stops with me.


:)


Dave  

User
Posted 20 Apr 2016 at 08:51
Er, Dave....

Motorbike Ash Tray

At our surgery last year, there was a special offer of a lifetime protection against pneumonia jab...
Tony
TURP then LRP in 2009/2010. Lots of leakage but PSA < 0.1 AMS-800 Artificial Sphincter activated 2015.
User
Posted 20 Apr 2016 at 11:14

DaveK, I understand where you are coming from. I am entitled to a flu jab each year but have never had one - it seems counter-intuitive. But you seem quite robust - for those who seem more susceptible to viruses and bugs, it may be sensible to do whatever possible to reduce the risk.


A friend of mine lost her daughter 3 weeks ago; 19 years old, normal healthy girl having a whale of a time at uni, got flu, died.

Edited by member 20 Apr 2016 at 11:23  | Reason: Not specified

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
 
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