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Active Surveillance or Treatment?

User
Posted 09 Sep 2016 at 20:24

I am a 53 year old in healthy condition and diagnosed with prostrate cancer last May 2015 after a template biopsy.   The Gleason score was 3+4 in 1 core and 3+3 in 3 cores.   My PSA was around 13.8 and I also did an MRI scan which was benign with no obvious signs of the cancer visible.


It was agreed with the hospital I would be put on Active Surveillance on the grounds that the Gleason score of 4 was only found in 1 core out of the 40 biopsy samples taken.  In other words the cancer is considered to be low volume with a high degree of confidence from a template biopsy.  The Oncologist said to me that the NHS advice is that above a PSA of 10 they should do treatment with my diagnosis but they will make an exception for my case as the cancer is very low volume.


 Unfortunately this year my PSA has started to rise and in Feb 2016 it was 14.6 and in May 2016 it shot up to 18.2.   I did however do another MRI scan in May 2016 and again it was benign with no signs of the cancer visible.   The hospital said I should now start to go towards treatment with a rising PSA but we agreed to review the situation in 3 months time in September 2016.   The latest PSA I did in August 2016 has now dropped back to 16.9 which I have yet to share with the hospital and has put me in a dilemma what to do next.  Should I stick with Active Surveillance or go for treatment.  From the articles I have read the PSA can be an unreliable marker to assess the aggressiveness of the cancer and I do not want to embark on the treatment until it is clearly necessary.


Also I am moving away from doing the radical prostatectomy and more towards High Intensity Focused Ultrasound which seems appropriate with my stage of cancer and is far less intrusive with lower side effects.   Am I being sensible here?  I think there are hospitals now in my side of West London offering HIFU as standard treatment or is it still part of clinical trials being still fairly new treatment?


I am going to see the Oncologist in 1 weeks time with the lower PSA score and would welcome some feedback.


Roger


 


 


 


 


    


 


   


 

User
Posted 09 Sep 2016 at 22:44

Hi Roger your PSA is high for your age , Mine was 5,7 with gleason 3 +4 I was given the choice of RP RT or active surveillance
I had RP as RT would be available if required which i did have early as i had positive margins .
It will be your choice just don,t leave it to late. All the best Andy

Edited by member 09 Sep 2016 at 22:45  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 10 Sep 2016 at 03:31

Hi Roger,

As Andy has said only you can decide whether to continue with AS or opt for treatment and if so which treatment option to have. In your position I would ask the consultant whether he/she felt that AS for a further period would be a good choice. Should this be the case you will defer possible side effects that any treatment can have. However, if the cancer does advance you would not wish to miss the opportunity of best chance of 'cure'. It is therefore important that you be carefully monitored.

I cannot say whether HIFU would be a good option for you now or in due course. Some parts of the Prostate are awkward to reach using this system but it is proving more successful if only one side needs treating. As with all types of treatment there are pros and cons to all treatments. In the UK HIFU has largely been used in trials and mostly as a salvage treatment for failed radiotherapy. Some men have had it as a primary treatment (especially if done privately) but it's still regarded as experimental as long term outcomes are not yet known. It is certainly worth enquiring about HIFU (as well as other alternatives) but you might have to travel further afield to find a specialist to discuss this with and a treating facility.


i

Barry
User
Posted 10 Sep 2016 at 09:23

Hello Roger,

Have you asked about the significance of the degree and rate of rise and/or fall in your PSA?

1 out of 40 samples positive sound promising. A PSA above the normal range for your age does not sound so good. At 55 years old with PSA 5.5 rising to 6.4 in 8 weeks, the NHS moved quickly.

If you ask the consultant about what they recommend, I would also ask how certain they are, and if they have made such "guesstimations" in the past? Also, how have these past decisions panned out for patients if and when further treatment had been required? How good was/is their guesswork?

As far as I am aware the only certain means of determining staging is by cutting up the gland in a dish in a laboratory. I am not aware of anyone who's staging has been downgraded. I was T2b on diagnosis, thought to be contained, upgraded T3a, touching the wall at pathology.

There are no guarantees with any form of treatment. It's not like trying to find the Ace from a set of face down cards knowing there is an Ace among them. Sometimes there is no Ace.

Research wisely, not too widely, to your satisfaction, then and only then choose, taking into account your physical and mental approach. Your appetite for risk, if you wait a bit longer?

No one knows when your particular roller coaster will stop climbing, and run.

atb

dave

All we can do - is do all that we can.


So, do all you can to help yourself, then make the best of your time. :-)


I am the statistic.

User
Posted 10 Sep 2016 at 10:45

Sometimes the scan can be wrong - John was diagnosed with T1 tiny volume so small that it didn't even show up on the scan. When he had the op, they found that the cancer was extensive, throughout the gland and spread into his bladder. No one has ever been able to explain why the scan was clear.

if done properly, AS includes annual scan anyway, which would give some peace of mind. If you do decide to look at treating, brachytherapy may be worth looking at ... not as radical as RP or IMRT but less experimental than HIFU. Early data on HIFU suggests that it is a good salvage treatment but not always a reliable primary treatment.

Edited by member 10 Sep 2016 at 10:48  | Reason: Not specified

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 13 Sep 2016 at 22:25

Hi Roger,

Further to my post of 10th Sep, where I replied concerning your interest in HIFU, there is a story in the Daily Mail about a man who had a new refinement of a 'fused' scan as part of the procedure. I have posted this as a new subject awaiting modulation but give a link here as it may be of interest to you. http://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20160913/282462823381960

Barry
User
Posted 14 Sep 2016 at 12:43

Andrew,

It is always advisable to carefully research a treatment option before having it, more so if it is new or relatively so compared to long established alternatives. This should be well beyond an article written in a newspaper although such an article can enlighten men about other possibilities to consider. It has more impact as a personal story and I see nothing wrong with this. As with any treatment one should never look on one outcome as applicable to all.

I was aware from my research and consultations leading to my having HIFU last year within a closely monitored study, that a 'fusion' technique was being developed by Professor M E (widely regarded as the top HIFU man in the UK) and others. He leads a team at UCLH and is associated with Nuada. Here is a video showing planning and use of the 'fusion' technique at Biopsy. Consultants are being trained by Professor M E and his team so that HIFU and advances in the procedure may be more widely available. :- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P_ZimxDSso

Barry
User
Posted 14 Sep 2016 at 20:51

Scans are as good as the image recorded, and that depends on how you presented at scan, did you twitch, did you present at the wrong angle, and what image was recorded.


Then you have to factor in the ability/capability/experience of the person interpreting the image.


Its all variable.


Then also consider the accounts and experiences given here, which may be, relatively, ancient? Procedures and medical advances move on, hopefully?


atb


dave

Edited by member 14 Sep 2016 at 23:33  | Reason: Not specified

All we can do - is do all that we can.


So, do all you can to help yourself, then make the best of your time. :-)


I am the statistic.

User
Posted 14 Sep 2016 at 21:45

I'm not sure it's always the scan that is the problem. Did you ever look at yours ?? It's just a black and white blurry mess. I think more and more it is boiling down to the experience and skill of the radiologist. PCUK are looking into this and training standards and experience. My T4G9N1 was never noticed. If it had been they would not have operated. And that was after 2 MRI and a CT scan and 3 biopsies.

 
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