drinking at christmas

User

Posted 09 Dec 2016 at 20:09

hi,i have read about alcohol and prostate cancer,i drink now and again so far no problems,i stopped ht on the 4th july and i was wandering if alcohol is ok while not on ht,any thoughts on this please.locally advanced t3b no mo.cheers.

User

Posted 10 Dec 2016 at 01:34

Ok guys - for your consumption, forgiving the pun

I had an extremely strict religious upbringing - in fact, church attendance 7 times per week for services which lasted around hours each time is probably the most excessive thing I have ever done.

No alcohol ever in my life, no smoking or drugs, no pork (the church teaches eating that will give you cancer!!!!). Church and chocolate in abundance though!

So no alcohol and at 46 just had robotic surgery today - yep, currently posting from hospital bed as I just can't sleep. No pain, just wide awake.

Disclaimer: I am very obviously in no way representative of the male population 😂 - and my very odd church upbringing does not prove or disprove any link between alchohol and PCa

I haven't gone to church for quite a few years now but for some weird reason still stick to those rules and lots of family still involved.

I can't advise on alcohol. But I will suspend a healthier diet over the Christmas period and have my cake and eat it😀🍰

Walter

User

Posted 09 Dec 2016 at 21:52

Now I have made it sound like John is an alcoholic or something. He isn't but he certainly likes a beer or some wine when he is out for the night.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User

Posted 10 Dec 2016 at 00:00

I have never heard that before and while it might apply to John as a rugby man, it certainly wouldnt have applied to my dad or our friend Richard. Just another possible environmental factor to consider - there must be a thesis in this for someone.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User

Posted 10 Dec 2016 at 00:43

Hi Guys,

Let us get things in perspective, I have had prostate cancer for nine years, during that time I have read enough about prostate cancer to get an honours degree in the dammed subject, and nowhere have I ever read that there is any link between prostate cancer and alcohol.

An eminent prostate cancer consultant (I would give you his name, but for the fact we are not supposed to name individuals on this site) used to give talks to our group and dispel the sex myth. He said that nothing to do with our sex life led to prostate cancer, it didn't matter if we had too much sex, or not enough sex, if we had sex with just one woman, or lots of women, or even men! Getting prostate cancer had nothing to do with our sex lives. Because men who had very little sex got prostate cancer, and men who had lots of sex got prostate cancer etc.

Prostate cancer is not a disease, it is a condition, part of the aging process, and for the most part we get it by living long enough for it to develop. Someone remind me, what are the stats, for men in their 90's, is it 80%, 90% or more than that who develop prostate cancer.?

That's 90% of all men who live long enough, drinkers, smokers, teetotalers, vegetarians, vegans, athletes, footballers, golfers, soldiers, sailors, rich men, poor men, etc, all of them develop prostate cancer if they live long enough!

At the time of writing this I am just about half way through a bottle of scotch (Johnny Walker Red Label, for the cognisors amongst you) that I opened early this evening, because my wife and step-son have colds and I had a few snuffles earlier, a lame excuse I know, but hey ho, I have prostate cancer, so why the hell shouldn't I drink a bottle of scotch when I fancy one?

In the words of Karl Marx - Work is the curse of the Drinking Classes!

Dave

User

Posted 10 Dec 2016 at 10:13

Hi Guys,

Well to paraphrase Winston Churchill, it is now the morning and I am sober.

I am sorry if my previous post was a bit brusque, lacking sensitivity etc.

As many of you know I have form for getting drunk and saying stupid things, but hopefully I didn't offend anyone this time, and apologies if I did.

However is there really any evidence linking alcohol consumption to prostate cancer?

Dave

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User

Posted 09 Dec 2016 at 21:51

Good lord! John wouldn't have survived the last 7 years without alcohol!!!! As far as I am aware, the only advice about staying off it is
a) during RT and
b) if you are having trouble with incontinence during the night

In fact, I am fairly sure that there was quite a bit of research about red wine being good for you. There is also something to be said about quality of life - a little of what makes you feel good is usually a good thing as long as you don't go silly.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User

Posted 09 Dec 2016 at 21:52

Now I have made it sound like John is an alcoholic or something. He isn't but he certainly likes a beer or some wine when he is out for the night.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User

Posted 09 Dec 2016 at 23:04

I've heard excessive drinking can cause prostate cancer in the first place , so I may be guilty of that tbh.
Seven years in the Navy and then 23years on shift-work where I only worked 165 days per year probably didn't help.
This roller coaster has only made things worse to be honest. If red wine is good for you then I'll probably live to 100. I may be silly or ignorant but I have not altered my eating or drinking habits much at all despite being in a worrying situation. I just want to enjoy myself as much as I can.

User

Posted 10 Dec 2016 at 00:00

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User

Posted 10 Dec 2016 at 00:43

Hi Guys,

In the words of Karl Marx - Work is the curse of the Drinking Classes!

Dave

User

Posted 10 Dec 2016 at 01:30

Hee hee hee hee - I hope you ward off that cold!

The research was part of a huge pan-European project. Men who had died for all sorts of reasons, including road traffic accidents etc were all given a post-mortem. 60% of the men in their 60s, 70% of the men in their 70s and 80% of the men in their 80s had some prostate cancer, regardless of the cause of death. A proportion will have died as a result of PCa or died of other medical conditions while being treated for PCa but there will also have been a significant proportion who never even knew they had it.

The biggest risk factor is being a man, I fear.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User

Posted 10 Dec 2016 at 01:34

However, DK, your specialist friend may have struggled to put the same argument forward in relation to why some are pussy cats while others are tigers, why African Caribbean and gay men are at such increased risk, and why some get it so young. There is lots of research into environmental carcinogens and I can't see why PCa would be so different to other cancers?

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User

Posted 10 Dec 2016 at 01:34

Ok guys - for your consumption, forgiving the pun

I had an extremely strict religious upbringing - in fact, church attendance 7 times per week for services which lasted around hours each time is probably the most excessive thing I have ever done.

No alcohol ever in my life, no smoking or drugs, no pork (the church teaches eating that will give you cancer!!!!). Church and chocolate in abundance though!

So no alcohol and at 46 just had robotic surgery today - yep, currently posting from hospital bed as I just can't sleep. No pain, just wide awake.

Disclaimer: I am very obviously in no way representative of the male population 😂 - and my very odd church upbringing does not prove or disprove any link between alchohol and PCa

I haven't gone to church for quite a few years now but for some weird reason still stick to those rules and lots of family still involved.

I can't advise on alcohol. But I will suspend a healthier diet over the Christmas period and have my cake and eat it😀🍰

Walter

User

Posted 10 Dec 2016 at 08:54

thankyou everyone, feel better now,the last time i drank red wine it got me drunk,did not realise how strong it is.cheers.

User

Posted 10 Dec 2016 at 10:13

Hi Guys,

Well to paraphrase Winston Churchill, it is now the morning and I am sober.

I am sorry if my previous post was a bit brusque, lacking sensitivity etc.

As many of you know I have form for getting drunk and saying stupid things, but hopefully I didn't offend anyone this time, and apologies if I did.

However is there really any evidence linking alcohol consumption to prostate cancer?

Dave

User

Posted 10 Dec 2016 at 10:58

I had a look today Dave on google and there is no hard link. It was something I had heard on the radio last week saying they had discovered it but not seen the proof yet if ever. You never offend me shipmate , but I tend not to post after 11pm haha.

User

Posted 10 Dec 2016 at 16:46

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

Hi Guys,

Well to paraphrase Winston Churchill, it is now the morning and I am sober.

I am sorryif my previouspost was a bit brusque, lacking sensitivity etc.

As many of you know I have form for getting drunk and saying stupid things, but hopefully I didn't offend anyone this time, and apologies if I did.

However is there really any evidence linking alcohol consumption to prostate cancer?

Dave

[/quote

Now we are getting to know you and understand how you tick 😂😂😂

Edited by member 10 Dec 2016 at 19:13 | Reason: Not specified

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User

Posted 10 Dec 2016 at 18:44

I can understand the different views about whether or not alcohol is a risk factor for prostate cancer and how these may often be based on personal experience, anecdotal incidents and whatever.

There have been a number of studies over the years about alcohol in relation to causing prostate cancer and it is difficult to say with any certainty what credibility should be given to whatever can be picked up on the internet. No doubt there will be interest in this latest study, particularly among newcomers to the Forum, so perhaps what follows may be of interest.

When reading articles in the press and elsewhere it is inevitable that you need to dig further to find out what prompted the article and the full conclusions from the findings from any related study. The Daily Mail comes in for some flack from time to time but for me, for many years, it has always been good at picking up clinical studies etc. I do not expect a full clinical analysis of a study in the press but the articles generally provide the means to find the source of the information. You can then see exactly what the findings are all about, how the research studies or reviews were conducted and assessed. The credibility of a study is important and, in particular, whether or not the findings were the result of a systematic review and a meta-analysis. A study which has been peer reviewed also comes with a high degree of credibility.

I suspect the latest interest may have been the result of an article in the Daily Mail in November based on the study which I have included below. You can see the article at the link below.

“Drinking just one pint of beer a day raises the risk of contracting prostate cancer by more than a fifth”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3936638/Drinking-just-one-pint-beer-day-raises-risk-contracting-prostate-cancer-fifth.html

The latest information about alcohol and prostate cancer was reported by Bio Medical Central and published online in their journal “BMC Cancer” on 25 November 2016. You can read the article at the link below.

“Is alcohol consumption a risk factor for prostate cancer? A systematic review and meta–analysis”
https://bmccancer.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12885-016-2891-z

I don’t wish to spend much time on this when you read about it yourself except to say the findings were based on a systematic review and meta analysis. To put this simply, 340 studies relating to prostate cancer and alcohol were identified. The researchers chose to include 27 studies in the review on the basis that they met the clinical requirements on which to base their review.

The findings from the study are summarised at the beginning of the article with a clear conclusion on page 17. The message is that for the first time it has been shown that there is a link between the level of alcohol consumption and prostate cancer. Also, the view is that prostate cancer may need to be included with other cancer that is breast, oesophagus, colon and liver which are affected by alcohol consumption.

I hope this is useful.

Alan

User

Posted 10 Dec 2016 at 20:10

This is of course, TOSH. These analyses after the event of other studies trying to find common social or environmental factors are not good science. They are little more than guesswork, since they do not rely on data derived to a common standard. If I were to advise anyone about drinking (hic) it would be to say enjoy yourself, relax, de-stress, enjoy Christmas but do everything you enjoy in moderation, except keeping fit. Take that very seriously.

AC in Northants (but staggering up the road to Leicestershire at the end if this week) to a village with some lovely pubs....

User

Posted 10 Dec 2016 at 21:07

Thanks Alan
Downloaded PDF. From that I read 313 studies did not meet required inclusion standards which to me gives extra weight to the other 27. How relevant to those with it is as always debatable. Of those with it who also enjoy a drink does the feel good factor (excluding hangovers) outweigh any increased risk? One day we might get some answers.

Ray

User

Posted 11 Dec 2016 at 01:02

Hi Guys,

I still have the cold, so I am seeing off the rest of the bottle of scotch, and its time for a little alcohol fueled late night philosophy.

It seems to me that us humans have some deep seated psychological desire to believe that we all have within us the ability to shape our destiny. When things go right, it is not luck, but it is due to our intelligence or our hard work. Equally when things go wrong, we want to believe that we are at fault.

Now it seems to me that when you cut through the detail, our friends in the medical profession don't actually know what causes prostate cancer, if they did, and had discovered a sure fire cure, then they would bottle it and sell it.

In the meantime we have what are essentially statisticians, coming up with studies, which may merely be satisfying our demand to blame ourselves for getting cancer. The studies seem to have a trend, the things that we enjoy are bad, the things that we endure are good for us.

Take food and drink for example, unsophisticated children who haven't learned what is supposed to be good for them, tend not to eat their greens, and aren't keen on salads. Left to themselves they will enjoy chips, sausages, burgers, cakes and ice-cream, washed down with milk and soda. As we get older and a little more sophisticated our preferences when dining out shift to steaks, fish and chips, and cheese washed down with beer and wine.

So is it pure coincidence that various studies link cancer to the foods we like, such as meat, dairy, alcohol etc. Or blame us for not eating enough Broccoli, Tomatoes, pomegranates or green tea?

The late Keith Waterhouse summed it up when he wrote that he hoped to celebrate his 100th birthday with undercooked beef on the bone, washed down with more than his weekly limit of units of Red Wine, while having unprotected sex and smoking a Havana cigar, all at the same time!

Isn't it strange that none of these scientists have ever studied whether eating too much, or not enough, bland food such as bread, parsnips, or rhubarb have any effect of prostate cancer?

To finish on a positive note, you can take your other half on holiday to Goa or Sri Lanka, spend all day on the beach soaking up the Vitamin D, have a good curry full of turmeric, garlic and chili, drink a little beer or wine, have a cigar and make love as best you are able. So far as I am aware non of the scientists can find fault in that?

Dave

User

Posted 11 Dec 2016 at 09:45

Dave

Even though some studies are very questionable why do we take them on board especially as scientists don't know what causes PCa? Perhaps it's because however much we deride studies some people do change their diet as you have. Your posts read your diet chioces are based on what a so called scientist said is good or bad based on studies? :-)

So is it a case of the more people change thier diets based on studies the more studies are produced - we feed what we deride?

Ray

Edited by member 11 Dec 2016 at 10:06 | Reason: Not specified

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