I'm interested in conversations about and I want to talk about
Know exactly what you want?
Show search

Notification

Error

Worrying about my dad.

User
Posted 13 Feb 2017 at 22:07

Hi all,

My dad is 55 in about a month (I am his daughter aged 22). He has family history of prostate cancer (his dad got it when he was around 70 years old but thankfully managed to recover and is still going strong aged 83 touch wood) :). 

My dad has had borderline high PSA scores over the last few years, and more recently (over the last couple of months) has had consecutive high scores ranging from 5-8 (i think- can't fully remember his numbers and don't want to keep asking him). 

His doctor therefore referred him to have a biopsy done in early january but due to mix up at hospitals this was never done, instead just had another PSA test which came back high. we are currently waiting for an appointment with the consultant (seems such a slow process to get it all going- having left numerous messages with consultant receptionists and hearing nothing back- very frustrating!!) to do yet another PSA test. 

We have read that MRI scans are better at detecting prostate cancer and also after having read some threads on this online community I have seen that biopsy can be very uncomfortable and then damage MRI scan results. Therefore dad is going to request MRI scan with private hospital for speed and because not sure whether he would get it on NHS/ long waiting list?

I'm just wondering if anyone has any advice- also if anyone can enlighten me a bit with the PSA scores.. I have read on here some people have scores in the thousands (on as high as 13000??) and am struggling to comprehend the large scale of PSA scores and what these can mean. I know not to overthink the PSA scores as they can indicate other issues that aren't cancer.

Oh also, my dad had an examination done a few times which they said prostate does feel enlarged but not abnormally for his age.

 

Thanks in advance guys! x 

User
Posted 14 Feb 2017 at 01:17

sometimes the scan is done first followed by biopsy while other hospitals do the biopsy followed by scan. One isn't necessarily better than the other - the trick is to get both done.

If the scan is done first and shows any grey areas the urologist can aim for those areas when he does the biopsy. On the other hand, if the scan shows no suspicious area then some men would be sent away without ever getting the biopsy. My husband had a completely clear scan but the cancer was actually in every bit of his prostate and in his bladder - it just happened to be the kind that doesn't show on scans :-(

It seems from what you have said that the hospital does not consider your dad to be at high risk of cancer, they don't seem to have him on the cancer care pathway. If his PSA moves around between 5 and 8, that suggests more likely to be infection or enlarged prostate (prostate cancer PSA does not usually go up & down).

If he does go for a scan first, that will not avoid the need for a biopsy so it is going to be uncomfortable whichever order he does it in.

PSA above a normal level (at your dad's age that's a PSA over 3.4 I think) indicates a problem that needs checking but not how severe it might be. An enlarged prostate gives off more PSA than a small one. We have men with PSA over 30 and in one case over 100 who do not seem to have PCa while someone like Si was diagnosed with a normal PSA but spread all over his body.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 14 Feb 2017 at 01:22

PS the GP couldn't have referred dad for a biopsy - he will have referred him to a urologist. The urologist makes a decision (usually in discussion with the patient) about whether or not to do a biopsy. It might be hard for your dad to remember exactly what was or wasn't said at that appointment, plus not many men would be comfortable talking about all the intimate details of their prostate to a young daughter, but one way or another it sounds like the urologist advised your dad against a biopsy at that stage OR the uro advised to go ahead with biopsy but based on the risk information, your dad decided to wait and see?

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 14 Feb 2017 at 02:32

Scans are not 100% reliable as Lyn has just illustrated. However, if Dad does want one done privately it's best to go for the 3Tesla rather than the 1.5Tesla as it is higher definition and a better chance of enabling any cancer to be identified. Biopsies can and sometimes miss cancer too,although the template Tansperineal one is more reliable than the normal TRUS one and is less likely to result in an infection too. The drawback of this is that it is considerably more expensive and usually involves the patient being anesthetized. It is therefore much less often done compared to the TRUS.

Yes PSA numbers are important as the higher the numbers the more likelihood of spread. Also, even with low numbers the time taken and rate of increase is important as it gives an indication of how the disease is progressing. Withi relatively small numbers an increase over norm for a man's age may be due to reasons other than PCa, an infection or and enlarged Prostate (BPH) being the two most usual.

Generally speaking ,Prostate Cancer is a slowly progressing disease so appointment priority is given where there are strong reasons for believing a man may have PCa, particularly where it may be more advanced and require more urgent treatment.

Barry
Show Most Thanked Posts
User
Posted 14 Feb 2017 at 01:17

sometimes the scan is done first followed by biopsy while other hospitals do the biopsy followed by scan. One isn't necessarily better than the other - the trick is to get both done.

If the scan is done first and shows any grey areas the urologist can aim for those areas when he does the biopsy. On the other hand, if the scan shows no suspicious area then some men would be sent away without ever getting the biopsy. My husband had a completely clear scan but the cancer was actually in every bit of his prostate and in his bladder - it just happened to be the kind that doesn't show on scans :-(

It seems from what you have said that the hospital does not consider your dad to be at high risk of cancer, they don't seem to have him on the cancer care pathway. If his PSA moves around between 5 and 8, that suggests more likely to be infection or enlarged prostate (prostate cancer PSA does not usually go up & down).

If he does go for a scan first, that will not avoid the need for a biopsy so it is going to be uncomfortable whichever order he does it in.

PSA above a normal level (at your dad's age that's a PSA over 3.4 I think) indicates a problem that needs checking but not how severe it might be. An enlarged prostate gives off more PSA than a small one. We have men with PSA over 30 and in one case over 100 who do not seem to have PCa while someone like Si was diagnosed with a normal PSA but spread all over his body.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 14 Feb 2017 at 01:22

PS the GP couldn't have referred dad for a biopsy - he will have referred him to a urologist. The urologist makes a decision (usually in discussion with the patient) about whether or not to do a biopsy. It might be hard for your dad to remember exactly what was or wasn't said at that appointment, plus not many men would be comfortable talking about all the intimate details of their prostate to a young daughter, but one way or another it sounds like the urologist advised your dad against a biopsy at that stage OR the uro advised to go ahead with biopsy but based on the risk information, your dad decided to wait and see?

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 14 Feb 2017 at 02:32

Scans are not 100% reliable as Lyn has just illustrated. However, if Dad does want one done privately it's best to go for the 3Tesla rather than the 1.5Tesla as it is higher definition and a better chance of enabling any cancer to be identified. Biopsies can and sometimes miss cancer too,although the template Tansperineal one is more reliable than the normal TRUS one and is less likely to result in an infection too. The drawback of this is that it is considerably more expensive and usually involves the patient being anesthetized. It is therefore much less often done compared to the TRUS.

Yes PSA numbers are important as the higher the numbers the more likelihood of spread. Also, even with low numbers the time taken and rate of increase is important as it gives an indication of how the disease is progressing. Withi relatively small numbers an increase over norm for a man's age may be due to reasons other than PCa, an infection or and enlarged Prostate (BPH) being the two most usual.

Generally speaking ,Prostate Cancer is a slowly progressing disease so appointment priority is given where there are strong reasons for believing a man may have PCa, particularly where it may be more advanced and require more urgent treatment.

Barry
User
Posted 14 Feb 2017 at 18:46

Hi Barry and Lyn,

 

Thanks for all your input and info. Hopefully the slow process does mean that he is not seen as an urgent case. I'm not sure what the urologist said to be honest- the one dad was meant to see was on hol so he saw another who did more bloods. 

Thanks for the info about PSA- he has had no other symptoms of infection or anything really- is there another way of checking if it is just an infection?

 

Thanks again for all your information and best wishes to you all x

User
Posted 14 Feb 2017 at 21:09

Not really, best to eliminate cancer by scans and biopsy - if they are clear then prostatitis or BPH become next likely cause of raised PSA.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

 
Forum Jump  
©2024 Prostate Cancer UK