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Is Turkey OK?

User
Posted 26 Nov 2017 at 11:18
Hi All

I had RRP at the beginning of yhis year (PTc3 with extracapsuler extension) and have sinced changed my diet. Some agree that diet can influence the risk of reccurance and some don't but there is increasing evidence that cutting out dairy, saturated fat, red meat and processed meat in particular may be helpful. I'm not sure but if I get any Pca progression having done nothing it will always be on my mind that I should have done more. So I've made the changes. One question I have is about turkey breast. Technically turkey is red meat but as it is low in saturated fat maybe it is OK. I think it would be a good substitute for mince in bolagnese sauce for example.

Any thoughts, further info or discussion anyone?

Bill

User
Posted 27 Nov 2017 at 07:45
The advice was not to take selenium supplements - their view was that selenium in food did not increase the risk or make existing PCa more aggressive. The PC cookbook was published a year after the trial stopped and advises that most things can be eaten in moderation but chicken and turkey are preferable to red muscle meats. I have been convinced by the arguments against growth hormones in any food and now only buy free range / organic.

To be fair, the cookbook is really about changing the diets of boys and young men to avoid cancer developing later in life; as CJ indicates, there is very little research to support the idea that diet makes any difference once you have been diagnosed. However, there is lots of research to support the idea that a sense of control over one's own body has a positive impact.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 27 Nov 2017 at 10:10

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
there is increasing evidence that cutting out dairy, saturated fat, red meat and processed meat in particular may be helpful.

There's actually no evidence of this. None.

There is evidence - strong evidence - that cutting out red / processed meat will reduce the risk of getting bowel cancer. Even then, there's no evidence that cutting out red meat and processed meat makes any difference once the disease is present.

Just as cutting out cigarettes if you have lung cancer makes no difference to the cancer's progression (though you may breathe more easily, of course!).

We all need selenium and vitamins, but there's no evidence that exceeding 'normal' levels helps in the slightest, and overdosing on 'supplements' can seriously harm you while making Commercial Quacks rich. Or Snake Oil Salespeople!

I'm with Chris J: I'm going to live my life while I've got it - I don't want to survive another 20 years - I want to live another 20 years.

And that includes bacon.

.

-- Andrew --

"I intend to live forever, or die trying" - Groucho Marx

User
Posted 27 Nov 2017 at 17:27

My vote is with Chris J and Andrew. Oh and the cheese and dairy bit of John's diet. We survivors need all the pleasures which eating and drinking well in a balanced way can give, especially since we are denied the pleasures of the flesh in other ways!

AC

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User
Posted 26 Nov 2017 at 13:33

Some men go to extremes when it comes to diet and certainly is has become widely accepted by many that at least limiting the amount of red meat and dairy is more healthy than having loads of such food and drink. Whether cutting such things out completely will help prevent a man getting PCa or slow the progress of the disease where a man has it, has not been confirmed. Some men feel they are doing something positive that may help by changing or limiting their diet in this way. I have gone some way towards this but still occasionally have red and more frequently white meat and also butter though I went over to soya milk several years ago. I certainly would not give up my Christmas turkey lunch!

Barry
User
Posted 26 Nov 2017 at 19:57

Hi Bill,

Have 'The Prostate Care Cookbook' next to me so checked and turkey (white meat), and chicken, are included in a couple of recipes and listed as beneficial to the prostate as they contain selenium.

So guilt free Christmas turkey lunch.

Graham

User
Posted 26 Nov 2017 at 20:38

A great book and (in my 'can't cook, won't cook' opinion) easy to follow recipes :-)

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 26 Nov 2017 at 22:37

Hate to be killjoy on the subject of poultry meat but the amount of growth regulators and other meds given to chickens and turkeys to promote rapid growth and maintain a healthy condition, ends up in us, one way or another.

I stick to organic poultry from a trusted source.

As for meat from four legged animals organic or otherwise, that's been a no, no since I first realised how diet can play a significant role in PCa prevention/progression.

Roger
User
Posted 26 Nov 2017 at 22:52

No oncologist has once ever warned me about my diet or drinking habits. Not been warned off alcohol , red meat ,? dairy , wine , beer, coffee . Not been advised to stuff my face with broccoli or garlic or tomato despite G9 T4 N1 MxR1 diagnosis. Not changed my diet in the slightest from day one. Is depriving mystlf from all I love going to extend my life. Very probably not if even meds struggle to do it ! It’s wine , pork pies , cheese, coffee and bacon all the way. !!!

If life gives you lemons , then make lemonade

User
Posted 26 Nov 2017 at 23:47

Hi there,

My husband is eating a zero dairy diet plus lots of supplements but not selenium as my understanding was the SELECT trial was stopped early due to concerns that selenium raised the risk of PCa

https://www.harvardprostateknowledge.org/selenium-vitamin-e-supplements-increase-decrease-prostate-cancer-risk

He will be having turkey on 25th though!

User
Posted 27 Nov 2017 at 07:45
The advice was not to take selenium supplements - their view was that selenium in food did not increase the risk or make existing PCa more aggressive. The PC cookbook was published a year after the trial stopped and advises that most things can be eaten in moderation but chicken and turkey are preferable to red muscle meats. I have been convinced by the arguments against growth hormones in any food and now only buy free range / organic.

To be fair, the cookbook is really about changing the diets of boys and young men to avoid cancer developing later in life; as CJ indicates, there is very little research to support the idea that diet makes any difference once you have been diagnosed. However, there is lots of research to support the idea that a sense of control over one's own body has a positive impact.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 27 Nov 2017 at 08:18

Thank you all for your responses and discussion.
As with everything to do with PCa diet is a grey area. It seems to me that the only sure and certain thing about this desease is that nothing is for sure or certain.
Thanks for the steer on the Prostate Care Cookbook. I just ordered a copy from Amazon. I noticed that there are several different China Study Cookbooks as well. Has anyone used any of them? Any recomendations please?

Thanks again

Bill

User
Posted 27 Nov 2017 at 09:53

I've been taking a selenium supplement for nigh on 10 years now and like the rest of the changes I made to my diet and lifestyle when I first got an inkling I had PCa, the psychological benefits along with any medical benefits may be keeping the little blighters under control.

I suppose you could call it my personal PCa trial and when I turn 90 I hope to have the figures available for publication. :)

p.s. I do recall reading somewhere that a research team in either Denmark or Sweden questioned the means of testing for how much selenium a man had in his body and found that using finger/toe nail clippings to be more accurate than blood samples and as a consequence that part of the SELECT trial results that covered selenium may be inaccurate. I've just tried a quick trawl through the web but can't find it but I'm sure the research was carried out and the nail clippings versus blood sampling tests proved conclusive in respect of the former being vastly more accurate.

Roger
User
Posted 27 Nov 2017 at 10:10

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
there is increasing evidence that cutting out dairy, saturated fat, red meat and processed meat in particular may be helpful.

There's actually no evidence of this. None.

There is evidence - strong evidence - that cutting out red / processed meat will reduce the risk of getting bowel cancer. Even then, there's no evidence that cutting out red meat and processed meat makes any difference once the disease is present.

Just as cutting out cigarettes if you have lung cancer makes no difference to the cancer's progression (though you may breathe more easily, of course!).

We all need selenium and vitamins, but there's no evidence that exceeding 'normal' levels helps in the slightest, and overdosing on 'supplements' can seriously harm you while making Commercial Quacks rich. Or Snake Oil Salespeople!

I'm with Chris J: I'm going to live my life while I've got it - I don't want to survive another 20 years - I want to live another 20 years.

And that includes bacon.

.

-- Andrew --

"I intend to live forever, or die trying" - Groucho Marx

User
Posted 27 Nov 2017 at 13:04

I have been a vegetarian for 45 years, I still got PCa, and high blood pressure, eczema, asthma and gout.

Then I do eat cheese and butter.

John

Gleason 6 = 3+3 PSA 8.8 P. volume 41.1 cc

Left Cores 3/3, Volume = 20%

User
Posted 27 Nov 2017 at 17:27

My vote is with Chris J and Andrew. Oh and the cheese and dairy bit of John's diet. We survivors need all the pleasures which eating and drinking well in a balanced way can give, especially since we are denied the pleasures of the flesh in other ways!

AC

 
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