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Pomi T or Prosta Phenol

User
Posted 09 Dec 2017 at 07:34
Any thoughts on taking Pomi-T or similar? It seems expensive at about £17 for 60 tablets where as you can get Prosta Phenol which seems to be similar on Amazon for £11.

Anyone taking either of these or similar or think they are worth while or not?

Bill

User
Posted 11 Dec 2017 at 14:06

Have been taking two Pomi-T tablets each day for for about four years. Every time I'm down to the last few I say to myself it would be cheaper if I buy each ingredient in bulk and make my own. Maybe next time?!

flexi

 

 

 

User
Posted 22 Apr 2020 at 10:57

Andrew 

Thank you for your comments and link to the review

Of course I do not agree with their conclusion or even the methodology they had to make them. They compared several polyphenol rich extracts mostly with small phase two studies. They only included  two RCT - the Pomi-T study and Pomegranate extract - both, especially the pomi-T were statistically significant with a p value of <0.0001 which means a less than in in a 10000 chance that the results where not real - a 64% change in PSA dynamics - so they are incorrect as well as misleading. You many know there was a later trial which also correlated PSA with underlying MRI changes

Their, yet to be fully published, review should have just included RCT then their conclusions would be very different

That said, clearly we need more research in this field which the Pomi-T endeavoured to achieve and so far it the most clinic robust research - hopefully more to follow

There is actually a number of RCT (not mentioned in the review) on  Lycopene, saw Palmetto and soya all of which, as you say were negative. More worryingly direct antioxidant vitamin A and E supplements may actually be harmful.

In my experience both clinically and on the research side I am total convinced that lifestyle and nutrition have a major part in the development and progression of cancer. Of course, exercise, getting enough vitamin D, reducing process sugar, protecting your mood also play a part to support dietary interventions (more)

Thank you 

Ref:

A double blind, placebo controlled randomised trial (RCT) evaluating the effect of a polyphenol rich whole food supplement on PSA progression in men with prostate cancer - The UK National Cancer Research Network (NCRN) Pomi-T study. R Thomas, M Williams1, H Sharma, A Chaudry, P Bellamy. Prostate Cancer and Prostatic Diseases March 2014 17, pp180-6 (doi:10.1038/pcan.2014.6)

 

Prostate Cancer Progression Defined by MRI Correlates with Serum PSA in Men Undergoing Lifestyle and Nutritional Inter- ventions for Low Risk Disease Thomas, Muhammad Shaikh,5 Michael Cauchi, and Dorothy Daiyi Yang J Lifestyle Dis Management. 2015 01 01

User
Posted 22 Apr 2020 at 11:07

Yes - I was the chief investigator (obvious too much time on my hand today - but am interested to see what people are saying about our research) - we are very proud of this research and the response we have in ASCO but accept more evidence is alway an advantage - but its the best we have for the moment

As you can see clearly in the conclusions of the paper the end point was PSA - A later paper then correlated PSA with underlying MRI changes which is reassuring but expected as the ingredients intentionally had no phytoestrogenic properties  - unlike soy or saw palmetto

I would love to do a larger follow up trial of prostate and other cancers but charities will not fund it because it is now a commercial product and the Swiss company who now make it will not pay for it (as despite its price they claim they do not have the funds!)

Thank you again

Ref:

Prostate Cancer Progression Defined by MRI Correlates with Serum PSA in Men Undergoing Lifestyle and Nutritional Inter- ventions for Low Risk Disease Thomas, Muhammad Shaikh,5 Michael Cauchi, and Dorothy Daiyi Yang J Lifestyle Dis Management. 2015 01 01

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User
Posted 09 Dec 2017 at 11:44

Bill only comment I can make is that the Pomi-t was part of a clinical trial not sure the Prosta Phenol has been.

Bri

User
Posted 09 Dec 2017 at 15:33
Been taking Pomi-T, lycopene, POM juice and powerful green tea for 2 years every day since RP - didn’t stop my PSA rising recently though 😕
User
Posted 11 Dec 2017 at 14:06

Have been taking two Pomi-T tablets each day for for about four years. Every time I'm down to the last few I say to myself it would be cheaper if I buy each ingredient in bulk and make my own. Maybe next time?!

flexi

 

 

 

User
Posted 22 Apr 2020 at 09:13

These products should not even be compared on the same page. Pomi-T was evaluated in a National randomised trial and is now made under the quality assurance of a Swiss Pharmaceutical company.

Prostaphenol does not have the same ingredients has not undergone any research so we have absolutely no idea whether it is safe. Of more concern it  has 20 time the concentration of caffeine in the higher tea extract and the company for no apparent explanation have included cloves and Peppermint in the blend both of which may influence androgen levels 

 

User
Posted 22 Apr 2020 at 09:18

Pomegranate is wonderful fruit enjoyed the world over rich in essential vitamins, mineral and polyphenols. Here is the actual evidence so far:

A trial of Pomegranate juice did not have any effect on PSA or prostate cancer [Paller].

On the other hand a trial of dried seed and rind did have an effect on PSA [Paller]. Later dried whole pomegranate in combination with other polyphenol rich foods also reported a benefit [Thomas]

So, in conclusion, enjoy pomegranate juice if you like the taste but be careful of the sugar content in the juice which without the pulp and fibre has a high glycaemic index like most juices on their own. Although more research is needed I have concerns about sugary juices

I hope this helps

References

Pantuck AJ, Leppert JT, Zomorodian N, et al: Phase II study of pomegranate juice for men with rising PSA following surgery or radiation for prostate cancer. J Urol 173:225–226, 2005

Paller CJ, Ye X, WozniakPJ, et al: A randomised phase II study of pomegranate extract for men with rising PSA following initial therapy for localized prostate cancer. Prostate Cancer and Prostatic Diseases 16:50-55, 2013

hhomas R, Williams M, Sharma H, et al. A double-blind, placebo-controlled randomised trial evaluating the effect of a polyphenol-rich whole food supplement on PSA progression in men with prostate cancer--the U.K. NCRN Pomi-T study. Prostate Cancer Prostatic Dis. 2014 17(2):180.

User
Posted 22 Apr 2020 at 09:21

Hello - In my view these  products should not even be compared . Pomi-T was evaluated in a National randomised trial and is now made under the quality assurance of a Swiss Pharmaceutical company which explains the higher price

Prostaphenol does not have the same ingredients has not undergone any research so we have absolutely no idea whether it is safe. Of more concern it  has 20 time the concentration of caffeine in the higher tea extract and the company for no apparent explanation have included cloves and Peppermint in the blend both of which may influence androgen levels 

 

User
Posted 22 Apr 2020 at 10:57

Andrew 

Thank you for your comments and link to the review

Of course I do not agree with their conclusion or even the methodology they had to make them. They compared several polyphenol rich extracts mostly with small phase two studies. They only included  two RCT - the Pomi-T study and Pomegranate extract - both, especially the pomi-T were statistically significant with a p value of <0.0001 which means a less than in in a 10000 chance that the results where not real - a 64% change in PSA dynamics - so they are incorrect as well as misleading. You many know there was a later trial which also correlated PSA with underlying MRI changes

Their, yet to be fully published, review should have just included RCT then their conclusions would be very different

That said, clearly we need more research in this field which the Pomi-T endeavoured to achieve and so far it the most clinic robust research - hopefully more to follow

There is actually a number of RCT (not mentioned in the review) on  Lycopene, saw Palmetto and soya all of which, as you say were negative. More worryingly direct antioxidant vitamin A and E supplements may actually be harmful.

In my experience both clinically and on the research side I am total convinced that lifestyle and nutrition have a major part in the development and progression of cancer. Of course, exercise, getting enough vitamin D, reducing process sugar, protecting your mood also play a part to support dietary interventions (more)

Thank you 

Ref:

A double blind, placebo controlled randomised trial (RCT) evaluating the effect of a polyphenol rich whole food supplement on PSA progression in men with prostate cancer - The UK National Cancer Research Network (NCRN) Pomi-T study. R Thomas, M Williams1, H Sharma, A Chaudry, P Bellamy. Prostate Cancer and Prostatic Diseases March 2014 17, pp180-6 (doi:10.1038/pcan.2014.6)

 

Prostate Cancer Progression Defined by MRI Correlates with Serum PSA in Men Undergoing Lifestyle and Nutritional Inter- ventions for Low Risk Disease Thomas, Muhammad Shaikh,5 Michael Cauchi, and Dorothy Daiyi Yang J Lifestyle Dis Management. 2015 01 01

User
Posted 22 Apr 2020 at 11:07

Yes - I was the chief investigator (obvious too much time on my hand today - but am interested to see what people are saying about our research) - we are very proud of this research and the response we have in ASCO but accept more evidence is alway an advantage - but its the best we have for the moment

As you can see clearly in the conclusions of the paper the end point was PSA - A later paper then correlated PSA with underlying MRI changes which is reassuring but expected as the ingredients intentionally had no phytoestrogenic properties  - unlike soy or saw palmetto

I would love to do a larger follow up trial of prostate and other cancers but charities will not fund it because it is now a commercial product and the Swiss company who now make it will not pay for it (as despite its price they claim they do not have the funds!)

Thank you again

Ref:

Prostate Cancer Progression Defined by MRI Correlates with Serum PSA in Men Undergoing Lifestyle and Nutritional Inter- ventions for Low Risk Disease Thomas, Muhammad Shaikh,5 Michael Cauchi, and Dorothy Daiyi Yang J Lifestyle Dis Management. 2015 01 01

User
Posted 22 Apr 2020 at 15:15

Golly this thread takes me back. Three years later and I'm still taking 2x Pomi-T tablets a day!

Flexi

User
Posted 24 Apr 2020 at 13:00

I have also been taking 2 POMI T a day since I was diagnosed 2 years ago, and together with a change of lifestyle have significantly reduced by PSA level. I believe in the research for this product and grateful for the results

 
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