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Diet after recurrence

User
Posted 08 Aug 2018 at 17:31

I would be grateful for any advice/experience with diet following a recurrence after a RP.

I am 67 and was diagnosed with PC in late 2014 (PSA score 7, large prostate – 95cc – and staged T2c). I had a RP in May 2015. Gleason was 3+4 with tertiary 5 after the operation and the margins were negative. My first PSA test after 6 weeks was 0.13. The consultant was surprised and thought this was a glitch. The next was undetectable (<0.03) and subsequent tests were the same until May this year when the PSA score was 0.08. I have just had another test, and this shows 0.08 again. I am booked in for another test in three months. If it goes up to around 0.2 then they would likely look at salvage RT, with no HT. I was told that it was not clear whether any scans would be recommended as oncologists had differing views on how much scans can find, especially with low PSA levels. A PET coline or PSMA may be possible but (on the NHS) there is a delay in getting these done. The nurse did say that a few of their patients stabilise at levels of around 0.1 and that they then just monitor.

I’ve been reading a bit about diet. It seems there is no clear evidence that it makes a difference but that some things may help keep the PSA score at bay, including broccoli, pomegranate, green tea, cooked tomatoes and turmeric. Also that it helps having a good diet with not too much processed, dairy or meat and plenty of fruit and veg and fish. My diet is not bad though maybe a bit too much dairy. Since my RP I have been drinking decaff green tea. I read about Pomi-T and thought I would give this a go and have taken the tablets for around 10 weeks. I think that they may well have helped keep the PSA level stable and will probably continue for the time being, and maybe try to adjust my diet. I’m not sure I’m ready for the full vegan yet but moving in that direction may help. I’d welcome any thoughts on this.

User
Posted 08 Aug 2018 at 20:17
Hi Clive, we bought the Prostate Care Cookbook from Amazon - it was written based on research from the Prostate Cancer Research UK charity. What they concluded was that diet would make a difference to young boys but not once you are older and have already got prostate cancer; the exception was that some data suggested dietary changes could help control advanced disease. The cookbook is not too evangelical - it says 'cut down on dairy' rather than 'never let it pass your lips' for example :-)

As for the natural level of PSA, my husband has been bumbling along for years now between 0.09 and 0.11; it is always slightly higher after our annual holiday to France which involves a lot of cycling, wine and cheese. Since he had RP 9 years ago and salvage RT 7 years ago, it may just be that he has quite a high 'normal' level. We try not to worry about it.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 08 Aug 2018 at 20:28
My quick thoughts which are not clinically based are that the diet you suggest sounds quite healthy anyway so why not go with that.

The Pomi T have been proven to have a positive affect in a small trial.

You also have to consider QoL. would you enjoy a vegan diet if your rationale is it may help stop any further development when I’m not sure there is any reliable research to back this up (I wait to be criticised)

At the end of the day you have to do what you feel you need to do

Take care

Bri

User
Posted 08 Aug 2018 at 20:39

Hi Clive, don't forget soy, beans, soy milk, soy cheese etc

Edited by member 09 Aug 2018 at 19:25  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 08 Aug 2018 at 22:07
Ah be careful with the soy it's full of oestrogen like chemicals, apparently humans should only eat fermented soy food products and tofu which is pushed as an ancient health food was only invented in the last century!

Watch "Nutrition and Prostate Cancer What We Think We Know and What We Actually Know" on YouTube

Basically lots of leafy veg and nuts, occasional grass fed meat and wild caught fish.

User
Posted 08 Aug 2018 at 23:33
It isn't as straightforward as just red meat - it is the muscle meats that cause concern due to growth hormones. Offal is thought to be fine. Milk obviously contains lots of natural growth hormones as well.

People have to be able to enjoy life as well, though. There are many members here who swear by the Jane Plant diet - Jane apparently cured herself of metastatic breast cancer by cutting out all red meat & dairy and eating lots of tomatoes & garlic; she was a doctor but not of medicine and she did eventually die but her books are very popular. In the early days I tried to stop J eating all red meat & dairy but discovered after a couple of years that he was cheating whenever I turned my back. Now we eat sensibly, try not to eat too much red meat, he has lots of soya (Prostate Cancer Research Foundation UK doesn't agree with the man in the Youtube link), onions, processed tomatoes, etc. I am much more concerned now with where the food comes from - I buy organic wherever possible to minimise the amount of chemicals we are consuming, and we don't eat or drink anything that has been in clingfilm or plastic wrappings. Burnt food is a big no-no.

I know they don't have full medical evidence for this yet but I do believe that they will eventually prove the link between old fashioned cooking styles and prostate cancer - the way our mothers may have used the same chip pan fat for months, scraped the burnt bits off the toast, wrapped our sandwiches in cling film, etc.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 10 Aug 2018 at 11:42

Hiya Clive, this subject comes up from time to time. I've always eaten very healthily but I've always had my fair share of alcohol. I believe any diet changes,radical or not, depend on a persons attitude to it. I feel that by doing all the things I can to fight PCa, even often with minimal evidence, help to put me in a more positive mindset and a feeling of doing my bit alongside the conventional treatments. Therefore, I have eliminated red meat and dairy, take Pomi T, vit D and incorporate turmeric, black pepper, a wide variety of veg, pomegranate, ground flaxseeds and goats milk kefir(my one concession to dairy) into my daily routine. I'm aware its probably easier for me to do this as I'm retired. We all do what helps to a lesser or greater degree. All the best mate.

Paul

 

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User
Posted 08 Aug 2018 at 20:17
Hi Clive, we bought the Prostate Care Cookbook from Amazon - it was written based on research from the Prostate Cancer Research UK charity. What they concluded was that diet would make a difference to young boys but not once you are older and have already got prostate cancer; the exception was that some data suggested dietary changes could help control advanced disease. The cookbook is not too evangelical - it says 'cut down on dairy' rather than 'never let it pass your lips' for example :-)

As for the natural level of PSA, my husband has been bumbling along for years now between 0.09 and 0.11; it is always slightly higher after our annual holiday to France which involves a lot of cycling, wine and cheese. Since he had RP 9 years ago and salvage RT 7 years ago, it may just be that he has quite a high 'normal' level. We try not to worry about it.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 08 Aug 2018 at 20:28
My quick thoughts which are not clinically based are that the diet you suggest sounds quite healthy anyway so why not go with that.

The Pomi T have been proven to have a positive affect in a small trial.

You also have to consider QoL. would you enjoy a vegan diet if your rationale is it may help stop any further development when I’m not sure there is any reliable research to back this up (I wait to be criticised)

At the end of the day you have to do what you feel you need to do

Take care

Bri

User
Posted 08 Aug 2018 at 20:39

Hi Clive, don't forget soy, beans, soy milk, soy cheese etc

Edited by member 09 Aug 2018 at 19:25  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 08 Aug 2018 at 22:07
Ah be careful with the soy it's full of oestrogen like chemicals, apparently humans should only eat fermented soy food products and tofu which is pushed as an ancient health food was only invented in the last century!

Watch "Nutrition and Prostate Cancer What We Think We Know and What We Actually Know" on YouTube

Basically lots of leafy veg and nuts, occasional grass fed meat and wild caught fish.

User
Posted 08 Aug 2018 at 23:33
It isn't as straightforward as just red meat - it is the muscle meats that cause concern due to growth hormones. Offal is thought to be fine. Milk obviously contains lots of natural growth hormones as well.

People have to be able to enjoy life as well, though. There are many members here who swear by the Jane Plant diet - Jane apparently cured herself of metastatic breast cancer by cutting out all red meat & dairy and eating lots of tomatoes & garlic; she was a doctor but not of medicine and she did eventually die but her books are very popular. In the early days I tried to stop J eating all red meat & dairy but discovered after a couple of years that he was cheating whenever I turned my back. Now we eat sensibly, try not to eat too much red meat, he has lots of soya (Prostate Cancer Research Foundation UK doesn't agree with the man in the Youtube link), onions, processed tomatoes, etc. I am much more concerned now with where the food comes from - I buy organic wherever possible to minimise the amount of chemicals we are consuming, and we don't eat or drink anything that has been in clingfilm or plastic wrappings. Burnt food is a big no-no.

I know they don't have full medical evidence for this yet but I do believe that they will eventually prove the link between old fashioned cooking styles and prostate cancer - the way our mothers may have used the same chip pan fat for months, scraped the burnt bits off the toast, wrapped our sandwiches in cling film, etc.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 09 Aug 2018 at 00:37
don't forget carbs the fewer the better!
User
Posted 09 Aug 2018 at 16:32
Take care! The testosterone blast and starve regime has been tried in a very limited subset of patients in a small trial. Outside of that subset we have no evidence of success. Indeed, quite the reverse for one of our long standing contributors who was running out of other options. I would not touch it with a bergepole until there are results from a large scale trial.

AC

User
Posted 10 Aug 2018 at 11:42

Hiya Clive, this subject comes up from time to time. I've always eaten very healthily but I've always had my fair share of alcohol. I believe any diet changes,radical or not, depend on a persons attitude to it. I feel that by doing all the things I can to fight PCa, even often with minimal evidence, help to put me in a more positive mindset and a feeling of doing my bit alongside the conventional treatments. Therefore, I have eliminated red meat and dairy, take Pomi T, vit D and incorporate turmeric, black pepper, a wide variety of veg, pomegranate, ground flaxseeds and goats milk kefir(my one concession to dairy) into my daily routine. I'm aware its probably easier for me to do this as I'm retired. We all do what helps to a lesser or greater degree. All the best mate.

Paul

 

User
Posted 11 Aug 2018 at 08:18

Thanks for all the responses. I have some reading to do but I will crack on and make some changes to my diet and take more of these superfoods. It will be worth it to see if I can keep my PSA around its current level.

User
Posted 18 Aug 2018 at 16:45
My dads oncologist recommended Pomi-T. She says even she takes it daily.
 
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