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Choline PET Scan Delay - Advice Needed

User
Posted 05 Dec 2018 at 07:48

My husband was diagnosed with metastatic prostate cancer just over a year ago aged 49. He has Gleason 10 and it had spread to lymph nodes outside pelvis. 

He's been on hormone therapy for about a year and has 6 sessions of chemotherapy. His PSA at diagnosis was 7.8 and it went down to 0.01 after chemotherapy. 

We went for a routine check up with the consultant a few weeks ago and PSA had risen to 2.94. They sent him for scans which have showed a change to the cancer and new nodules on the prostate. 

The consultant is now considering further treatment probably radiotherapy however before they can do this they need a PET scan. He was referred for this scan on 22nd November and they said it was urgent and woukd be within 10 days. We had not received an appointment so earlier this week I made some enquiries. I have discovered that the hospital sub contract out these scans to a private company. The private company are having issues obtaining the radioactive tracer that is required for the scan so they are saying he's unlikely to get the scan until towards the end of December. 

This potentially means a dealt of between 4-6 weeks and then add on the time for the report to be received and the next treatment planned meanwhile all this time they know the cancer is changing. 

I've contacted the local NHS complaints authority. We have begged to be sent anywhere in the country for the scan but I'm having no joy. The hospital are now not even communicating with us because I guess they can't give us the guarantees we are asking for. 

I dont know what else to do, this seems scandalous to me. To leave someone with an active cancer like this is disgusting. On top of dealing with all this my husband is very depressed and this situation is the last thing he needs. Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Does anyone have any idea what else we can do to get this scan? 

User
Posted 05 Dec 2018 at 08:27

Not very helpful I know, but you could pay £2600 for the more advanced Gallium 68 PET PSMA scan in London:

https://www.stricklandscanner.org.uk/for-patients/pet-ct-scans

Edited by member 05 Dec 2018 at 08:29  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 05 Dec 2018 at 08:49
So sorry to read about this. I think the main problem with Choline tracers (I had a choline PET scan end December 2016) is that the tracer is very difficult to make and the sometimes what is produced is not of sufficient quality to be useful. I waited from early November to get mine and even then the first scan was postponed because the yield failed on my appointment day.

I made all sorts of enquiries about getting it done privately but I found I could get the scan only a week or so before my appointment and I would also have needed a letter of authority from my oncologist detailing the reasons for the scan and accepting the report from the private hospital too.

I was so angry and frustrated as I was also promised the scan within two weeks. Bureaucracy and a lack of urgency was a nightmare. It turns out the PET scans were being limited to a few scans per month.

You might want to make enquiries to have the scan privately but only if you have the resources to pay for it and you can get the scan earlier.

Ian

Ido4

User
Posted 05 Dec 2018 at 09:51
So sorry but this is very familiar territory. It took three journeys to Oxford for my Choline PET due to cancellations , and two journeys to London to have my PSMA PET scan due to cancellations. It is the tracer that is always the issue. I guess you could try private , but still the same problems .....

It sounds like your husbands treatment has been correct though so far. So sorry for you , Iā€™m only 51 and have lymph spread also

User
Posted 05 Dec 2018 at 09:54

I had GA68PSMA scam in India, longest wait was for the Visa. Overall cost me £1500, for scan, flights, 4 nights hotel and spends. All in From start To finish took 4 weeks. 

happy to send details. 

User
Posted 05 Dec 2018 at 10:02
Ian is correct. A cyclotron is needed to make Choline and hospitals in the UK don't have them. (There is one at the Christie in Manchester but I don't know if this is operational yet or indeed will be used for producing Choline) The half life for Choline is very short and it has to be made up specifically for the patient's body weight. Many of us that have had this scan had to wait for a replacement because the first one failed quality control - hence there is a backlog. As John says, the 68 Gallium scan is superior but requires a 'Generator' so is also bought in. I think it is only available to several London based Hospitals at present.
Barry
User
Posted 05 Dec 2018 at 11:41

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

I had GA68PSMA scam in India, longest wait was for the Visa. Overall cost me £1500, for scan, flights, 4 nights hotel and spends. All in From start To finish took 4 weeks. 

happy to send details. 

Hi Brad, do give us the details of the hospital and scan cost. (you wrote scam - I hope it was not!šŸ˜‰)

Many thanks.

Cheers, John.

User
Posted 06 Dec 2018 at 17:42

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

I had GA68PSMA scam in India, longest wait was for the Visa. Overall cost me £1500, for scan, flights, 4 nights hotel and spends. All in From start To finish took 4 weeks. 

happy to send details. 

Hi Brad, do give us the details of the hospital and scan cost. (you wrote scam - I hope it was not!šŸ˜‰)

Many thanks.

Cheers, John.

 

And the results -was it worth the trip?? Did it change treatment plans?

User
Posted 06 Dec 2018 at 18:28

I believe the 68 Gal PSMA scan leads to something of the order of 40% having treatment plans changed. They have gone over to this scan big time in Australia. A professor there is on record as saying they only used the Choline one for about 6 months before changing over. Another possibility for earlier PSMA scan is to go to Germany for it at about the same price you would have to pay in the UK. This is a very long but interesting lecture that majors on the PSMA scan :- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H-g047os6c

 

Edited by member 06 Dec 2018 at 21:31  | Reason: Not specified

Barry
User
Posted 07 Dec 2018 at 01:53
Iā€™m only interested in the PSMA scan for purely selfish reasons in the event of biochemical recurrence, which in my case, is more likely than not, eventually.

The point is that radiotherapy can be more accurately targeted on any metastases directly, rather than a master-blast of radiation everywhere.

A bit like the scatter-gun approach of the TRUS biopsy, compared to the targeted template biopsy.

Cheers, John.

User
Posted 07 Dec 2018 at 06:37

This was my hope that the ever rising psa would show up as a couple of bone mets and then be targeted accurately, rather than do my whole pelvis with all the side effects when there may be only traces there. Sadly my psa is expected over 100 after Xmas and both scans picked up nothing which means my mets are probably systemic. Sadly after being a member of this forum for 4 yrs , I’m not keen on castrate level HT and or Chemo which is looming I guess.

Edited by member 07 Dec 2018 at 15:53  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 07 Dec 2018 at 12:05
When John's PSA became detectable a couple of years ago, Mr B said that if isolated mets were identified he would offer additional RT on a curative basis, as long as the mets weren't in the pelvis.
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 30 Mar 2019 at 11:36

I also got caught out by lack of working Cholene PET scans in December and January. I was due to have a scan because my PSA of 57 was rather high for the cancer they could find, which is all in the prostate.

This got me reading around the subject and I discovered PSMA PET scans, but my NHS trust doesn't pay for those, so after waiting 2 months I offered to do it privately. My trust instead put me in for a full body MRI which happened at the end of February. I figured I may as well do that because if it finds something significant, no point having the PSMA scan (plus the extra risk from the radiation dose), but if it didn't find anything, then I might go ahead with the PSMA scan privately.

I got the full body MRI scan result this week, and it can find no spread outside the prostate. I wasn't sure how detailed it would be, but I'm blown away by the detail of the report. It's not quite full body - they don't cover knees or below, or arms below the shoulders, but everything else is covered. They've looked through the lymph nodes and all are normal except one adjacent to thyroid gland but it implies that's not cancer related. There's detailed commentary on brain, lungs, pleural, pericardium, liver, spleen, bowel, with a few observations mentioned, but not cancer related. I have a little lower spine pain when I wake in the mornings which the radiologist wouldn't have known about, but they identified some disc dehydration there. Found a nonaggressive sinus polyp I didn't know about. The thing that really blew me away was the report of asymmetric retroareolar soft tissue. Checking in my own diary entry 2 days before the scan, I have written that Tamoxifen has completely got rid of left breast bud, but not quite the right breast bud yet - they even spotted that!

My consultant didn't think it was worth having a PSMA scan after the full body MRI, as he thought it unlikely it would change his suggested treatment (External beam RT and high dose Brachytherapy, where he's assuming there could be some locally advanced spread which isn't going to show on a scan). I wasn't quite so sure, but I hadn't seen the MRI report at that point, which is much more detailed than I was guessing it would be. Still not completely decided, but probably coming down on the side of not doing the PSMA scan - can keep it in reserve if PSA doesn't come close to zero after the RT.

Would love to hear anyone else's view on PSMA scan or not at this stage.

By the way, I've been having great fun looking through the MRI scan images. You need special software to get the most out of them. The scan CD's come with Windows software, but being a Mac person, I downloaded OsiriX Lite which is a professional DICOM imaging tool which is available for free to look at your own scans (some features disabled in the free version but not ones you would need, and you have to upgrade it every time a new version is released). The scan is 10500 images and came on 13 CDs.

User
Posted 30 Mar 2019 at 11:58
I was told both by my urologist and by the PCUK nurses that a full skeletal scan MRI, which I also had, was the "gold standard" for detecting bone mets and was more sensitive than a nuclear bone scan, so I think you've had exactly the right test. I was in the same position as you - higher PSA (32 in my case) than would be considered normal from the Gleason grade detected by the biopsy. Accordingly I was strongly advised to have HT+RT rather than surgery, because the RT could irradiate a wider area. I finished my RT this week.

Cheers,

Chris

 
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