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Choline content of foods

User
Posted 19 Feb 2019 at 16:38

It was mentioned on the Macmillan PC forum that eggs were a definite no no due to their high choline content(mostly in the yolks).

This alarmed me, I don't eat huge amounts of egg but do regularly have pasta which contains egg, Occasional omelette, poached egg or scrambled egg too.

I started reading about this and it turns out it’s an essential micronutrient.

It is also used in PET scanning as PC metabolises it more than normal cells.

Doesnt life get complicated. See link below about choline.

I would appreciate others thoughts on this as I am down a bit of a hole worrying about my diet again.

Dietary Choline

Ido4

Ido4

User
Posted 19 Feb 2019 at 18:20
If you put Jane Plant to one side, almost all scientific research regarding diet and PCa relates to the possible causes ... our onco and uro are of the view that if we eradicated muscle meat, dairy and processed foods from the diet of young boys PCa rates would fall significantly. However, by the time a man is fully grown, dietary change makes no difference at all. Prostate Cancer Research UK (a different organisation to PCUK) did find some evidence that removing certain foods from the diet could slow down the march of advanced cancer but it was small scale research.
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 19 Feb 2019 at 17:14
Mm how about just eating a varied diet with lots of leafy vegetables and beans ---. Arrrghhh!!! Brussel sprouts cauliflower and beans also have high levels!!

This report indicates you should avoid chicken skin and eggs but trough down red meat etc!!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20042525/?i=2&from=/21930800/related

Basically I don't think you should be excluding anything - after all a choline deficit causes Alzheimer's!!

Just don't go.mad on anything.

User
Posted 19 Feb 2019 at 18:03
I’ve not changed a single thing about my diet since diagnosis. I’m not sure this is right , but no-one has said its wrong. Rarely will you hear an Onco suggesting diet changes. If anything with my prognosis I want to enjoy what I enjoy more , not cheat myself of enjoyment during my guaranteed shortened life-span. An article today in the Mail said that taking Glucosamine and Chondrotin for joint pain was about as effective as swallowing hair hoping to cure baldness. My GP friend said she would never recommend vitamin supplements in any form other than injection. Total waste of time and money. But fish oil and turmeric are accepted as useful by NHS.

PS I love eggs :-))

If life gives you lemons , then make lemonade

User
Posted 20 Feb 2019 at 15:09

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

And I'd rather drop dead than cut out bacon.

 

Are you my husband using a false ID? 

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

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User
Posted 19 Feb 2019 at 17:14
Mm how about just eating a varied diet with lots of leafy vegetables and beans ---. Arrrghhh!!! Brussel sprouts cauliflower and beans also have high levels!!

This report indicates you should avoid chicken skin and eggs but trough down red meat etc!!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20042525/?i=2&from=/21930800/related

Basically I don't think you should be excluding anything - after all a choline deficit causes Alzheimer's!!

Just don't go.mad on anything.

User
Posted 19 Feb 2019 at 18:03
I’ve not changed a single thing about my diet since diagnosis. I’m not sure this is right , but no-one has said its wrong. Rarely will you hear an Onco suggesting diet changes. If anything with my prognosis I want to enjoy what I enjoy more , not cheat myself of enjoyment during my guaranteed shortened life-span. An article today in the Mail said that taking Glucosamine and Chondrotin for joint pain was about as effective as swallowing hair hoping to cure baldness. My GP friend said she would never recommend vitamin supplements in any form other than injection. Total waste of time and money. But fish oil and turmeric are accepted as useful by NHS.

PS I love eggs :-))

If life gives you lemons , then make lemonade

User
Posted 19 Feb 2019 at 18:20
If you put Jane Plant to one side, almost all scientific research regarding diet and PCa relates to the possible causes ... our onco and uro are of the view that if we eradicated muscle meat, dairy and processed foods from the diet of young boys PCa rates would fall significantly. However, by the time a man is fully grown, dietary change makes no difference at all. Prostate Cancer Research UK (a different organisation to PCUK) did find some evidence that removing certain foods from the diet could slow down the march of advanced cancer but it was small scale research.
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 20 Feb 2019 at 07:53
Hi Ido4

I followed the link and read the article thanks.

I gave up eggs about 18 months ago having read about a possible link with Pca.

I think it was mostly studies done by the American ncbi but there are others too. I remember there was no actual evidence which we all know is the case with most diet studies, but there did seem to be a link with men who ate more than three eggs per week over their whole life. Bare in mind that men who eat eggs may well be eating bacon with them. It was also said somewhere that even if there is a link with eggs that it might not be due to the Choline anyway.

At about that time I was changing my diet cosiderably. I cut out the usual stuff, red meet, processed meet, dairy, poultry skin etc... Some Pca sufferers do and some don't. I dont really know if it does any good for Pca or not. I also excercise regularly now and I'm 2.5 stone lighter than before the Op, well within the normal range. I believe the excercise is atleast as important as the diet. Blood pressure is also good now.

Whether it helps keep a recurrence away or not I'll never know but I am healthier now and just feel I am doing something positive that may help.

It's always in the back of my mind that I can give this up and go back to like before whenever I want and probably will at some point, this also helps.

Also I do still allow little slip ups on special occasions and drink to much every weekend.

The article points out that there are many other sources of Choline and I eat a very varied diet and have had full blood tests which have returned excellent results, although Choline was not included. So I suppose the dilemma still revolves around whether it is the eggs the choline, neither or nothing at all. As always with this awful disease it seems nothing is for sure. Sorry not a definitive answer but just my view.

My Uro says there is no good scientific evidence that anything other than a varied healthy diet is of benefit and there is no good scientific evidence that there is any particular cause YET.

Btw most packet pasta contains just a small amount of egg powder and some none at all. You can also make your own with no eggs very easily. I do and experiment with different flours and additions, crushed seeds, herbs, chilli, turmeric etc. Google has loads on it.

Sorry but I don't think you will find a definite answer to the eggs/choline influence just like everything else.

All we can do is make our choices based on what we know, what we believe, what our attitude to risk is and what we want regarding QOL.

All the best for the future whatever you do.

Cheers

Bill

User
Posted 20 Feb 2019 at 08:00
I think there is one conclusive dietary link and eggs could play a part as they are high in calories. PCA is more likely to occur and if it does be more aggressive if you are overweight.

User
Posted 20 Feb 2019 at 08:23

Yes agreed francij1, as is the case with everything high in calories, also everything with saturated fat etc...

Eggs are also bad for cholesterol.

Cheers

Bill

User
Posted 20 Feb 2019 at 08:28
Whoa - none of my men are / were overweight. The % of men that join here who are fitness fanatics, cyclists, runners, team sport players seems very high. Many of the members I have met have been skinny if anything.

I don't think you can make a broad statement like that!

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 20 Feb 2019 at 08:49
Lyn

All I meen is being over weight is blamed for increasing the risk for most cancers. Thats not to say that if your not over weight your not at risk.

Pca does seem to be indiscriminate.

Personally I believe in the more environmental and diet theories as cause.

No dought though that being a healthy weight has many benefits

Sorry if a gave the wrong impression of my opinion.

Cheers

Bill

User
Posted 20 Feb 2019 at 09:04

Thanks Bill, ChrisJ, francij1 and Lyn. I will continue to eat a varied diet. I have reduced dairy intake, replacing dairy milk with soya or almond milk. I tend not to eat bacon or most processed meats but i do have a weakness for the occasional grass fed steak. I also occasionally still eat cheese so dairy isn't out completely. Maybe I should stop these.

I drink pomegranate juice each day and green tea. I don't add sugar to tea or coffee.

I exercise regularly. My weight fell due to stress caused by my recurrent PCa, it fell below a healthy range. My weight is now approaching where i was in 2016 but still lower. I have never been overweight, usually referred to as quite thin but at the lower end of normal BMI. 

I did try intermittent fasting after my prostatectomy but that didn't stop the cancer.

I had read that helps the body do a clear out.

It's a minefield!

 

 

 

 

Ido4

User
Posted 20 Feb 2019 at 09:34

These dietary discussions are really about shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. 

There is no doubt - none whatsoever - that a healthy diet reduces the risks of getting many cancers. But almost everyone on this forum already has PCa, so we already have one cancer to worry about.

And the age group of most of us - 60+ - means that changing diet now is probably 40 years too late. Even the "5 A Day" initiative has had virtually no effect on the incidence of cancer (which was the intention), though it has been a major plus with heart disease.

I've cut out dairy and lost some weight - because I have hypertension.

The best way to deal with cancer is to be as healthy as you can. Denying nutrients to the cancer means denying them to other bits of you that might need them.

And I'd rather drop dead than cut out bacon.

.

-- Andrew --

"I intend to live forever, or die trying" - Groucho Marx

User
Posted 20 Feb 2019 at 14:46
Here is one of many studies on obesity and PCA:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3597763/

My Urologist said eating a healthy balanced diet and keeping trim was all I could do in terms of lifestyle change.

User
Posted 20 Feb 2019 at 15:09

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

And I'd rather drop dead than cut out bacon.

 

Are you my husband using a false ID? 

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

 
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