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External radiography for localized prostate cancer

User
Posted 02 Aug 2019 at 05:36

I have localized prostate cancer.

my urologist doctor did not recommend radiography . But my oncologist firmly says this cancer can be removed completely by radiography. 

Is anyone has localized prostate cancer which is treated completely by radiotherapy ?

 

User
Posted 02 Aug 2019 at 09:03

Thank for your reply.

with sono guided trans rectal needle biopsy out of 12 sample 10% of one sample showed GLEASON SCORE 3+3.

With MRI (multiparametric) the rating is T2.

PSA is around 10.

unfortunately there is no MDT.

User
Posted 04 Aug 2019 at 10:00

How irresponsible Andy, to advise someone on specific meds and even go so far as to hint that they buy direct when you have no idea of the real facts of the case. The doctors in Iran may have a specific plan in mind and taking into account that one of the leading PCa research projects in the world is Iranian plus we have had members here in the UK who have had EBRT without HT, it is unreasonable to imply that you know better than his medics. Brachytherapy, cryotherapy and tomotherapy are all available in Iran and can be given to men without hormones where the tumour is thought to be small and isolated. 

Edited by member 04 Aug 2019 at 10:13  | Reason: Not specified

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

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User
Posted 02 Aug 2019 at 08:44

I presume you mean radiotherapy rather than radiography?

Do you know what the staging is (T2.....?)?

External beam radiotherapy might be preferable if the cancer is close to the edge of the capsule and there's some concern it might be T3a, or if any lymph nodes are suspicious (but then it's not localised), or if you are high risk (PSA >= 20 or Gleason >= 8), but otherwise I would have thought Brachytherapy would normally be the preferable radiotherapy path for T2xN0M0 diagnosis from the side-effects viewpoint.

You should be being advised by a multi-disciplinary team (MDT) where the urologist, oncologist, and others collectively decide what's best for you, rather than each one pitching their favorite procedure (at least, if you are on NHS treatment). It might be that the MDT decided that either option is good for you, but you should never be in the situation where the urologist and oncologist are disagreeing - that would be a failure of the MDT. How has this come about? Are you sure you are correctly understanding what they recommended?

User
Posted 02 Aug 2019 at 09:03

Thank for your reply.

with sono guided trans rectal needle biopsy out of 12 sample 10% of one sample showed GLEASON SCORE 3+3.

With MRI (multiparametric) the rating is T2.

PSA is around 10.

unfortunately there is no MDT.

User
Posted 02 Aug 2019 at 09:23

OK, I assume you are not in the UK.

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
with sono guided trans rectal needle biopsy out of 12 sample 10% of one sample showed GLEASON SCORE 3+3.

In the UK, that would often be treated with active surveillance (although your PSA is probably too high for that), i.e. no immediate treatment, but periodic scans and biopsies. However, ultrasound guided trans rectal needle biopsy (TRUS) is notoriously unreliable - it can't reach the anterior (front) of the prostate, and sampling the apex (base) is difficult and often not done. So you could have more extensive cancer than the TRUS result implies.

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
With MRI (multiparametric) the rating is T2.

The mpMRI should give you a PIRADS score, and also an indication of which part(s) of the prostate are suspect. Was the mpMRI done and reported on before the TRUS? If so, I hope the TRUS was guided by the mpMRI results towards the suspect areas.

I would be a bit concerned that the cancer found by TRUS is a bit small to account for PSA 10. It's not impossible, but should raise the question about whether all the cancer has been found. Depending how well the TRUS was driven by the mpMRI result, I would consider more investigations first. The other thing that could count towards that PSA level would be an enlarged prostate (large prostates generate more background PSA). Does the mpMRI report say how large the prostate is?

In the UK, I think you would get a bone scan for mets and possibly a transperineal template prostate biopsy depending on the mpMRI result.

Edited by member 02 Aug 2019 at 09:30  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 03 Aug 2019 at 14:07

The MRI (multiparametric) showed prostate gland 55x40x60 and volume of 68 and PSA Density 0.14.

transition zone:

- BPH :Heterogeneous encapsulated nodules are seen at transition zone.

- focal lesions: few

-location both

- T2 :hyposignal and PARADS rating :2

User
Posted 03 Aug 2019 at 22:54
Your prostate may be a bit too big for brachytherapy even if it is available in your country and I think with your scores, not many oncos in the UK would be recommending external beam radiotherapy for such a small tumour. Your PSA density and PIRADS score suggest that there is no significant amount of tumour there.

How many sessions is your oncologist suggesting you might have, and is that with or without hormone therapy?

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 04 Aug 2019 at 00:17

Thank you for your promising comments.

I have not started radiotraphy  but my ancologist suggest 34 session without hormontraphy. I am 58 and I can wait some more years but why when this small tumor can be removed completely now I shall wait with stress some more years? 

User
Posted 04 Aug 2019 at 08:36
It’s most unusual to have radiotherapy without accompanying hormone therapy. Do you know why your oncologist is recommending this?

User
Posted 04 Aug 2019 at 08:42
He is in Iran Chris - hormone therapy may be too expensive and it does seem that in quite a lot of Middle Eastern / Asian countries, HT is not routinely used. For incurable cancer, we see far higher rates of orchiectomy, for example.
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 04 Aug 2019 at 09:46

UK cost to the NHS for 150mg bicalutamide is about £10 for 4 weeks supply. US cost is similar. You probably want to take tamoxifen with it to prevent growing breasts, but that's very cheap.

The Zoladex and Prostap treatments cost more, around £250 for 4 weeks.

If you can't afford or can't get Zoladex or Prostap, I would certainly look at taking 150mg bicalutamide to bring your PSA down during 3-6 months before starting radiotherapy and keeping it low for at least 6 months afterwards. Some research shows if you can get your PSA under 0.1 when starting RT, you don't need to continue with HT afterwards. (I'm not aware this is done in the UK, although I did delay my RT to get as near as possible to 0.1 beforehand.)

 

Edited by member 04 Aug 2019 at 09:52  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 04 Aug 2019 at 10:00

How irresponsible Andy, to advise someone on specific meds and even go so far as to hint that they buy direct when you have no idea of the real facts of the case. The doctors in Iran may have a specific plan in mind and taking into account that one of the leading PCa research projects in the world is Iranian plus we have had members here in the UK who have had EBRT without HT, it is unreasonable to imply that you know better than his medics. Brachytherapy, cryotherapy and tomotherapy are all available in Iran and can be given to men without hormones where the tumour is thought to be small and isolated. 

Edited by member 04 Aug 2019 at 10:13  | Reason: Not specified

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 04 Aug 2019 at 10:50

Lyn, he's not being offered any of those. He's being offered 34 sessions of external beam radiotherapy, and I was very clear in saying it's what I would do if being offered that.

Of course, any meds need discussing with the oncologist.

User
Posted 04 Aug 2019 at 11:16
That isn't how it reads - reads like you are advising him to get hold of specific meds.

What you could have done is suggested that mmmbbbb asks a) his urologist why he thinks RT is a bad idea and b) his oncologist why he is recommending RT without hormones. My guess is they will say with a PIRADS 2, one small core of 3+3 and a PSA ratio of 0.14, any radical treatment is overkill.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 04 Aug 2019 at 14:18

Lyn, if it wasn't clear, thanks for calling it out.

It did strike me when I read his diagnosis that he might be a good candidate for a focal therapy, acting just on and around the cancer cells, but I assumed that probably wasn't available. Since you've mentioned some focal therapies are available in Iran, it might be worth asking the urologist if any of these are available to him and suitable for his situation.

 
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