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mpmri scan

User
Posted 05 Sep 2019 at 11:59

Hi all,

  I am English and living in Ghana. Have had a psa test recently which shows a score of 15.9. In October I will be visiting the UK and would like to have an MPMRI test at a private clinic in London. Can anyone advise me on the best clinic to go to, not necessarily the cheapest but of course the lower the cost the better.  Thankyou in advance for any advice.

User
Posted 05 Sep 2019 at 12:42

Very few stand-alone private clinics would have their own facilities; you will need to look for an NHS hospital that offers mpMRI to Promis standard and also accepts private patients. Some NHS hospitals use the money from a self-funding patient to improve their services for all.

The exception to the above would be the London Clinic https://www.thelondonclinic.co.uk/news/how-3t-mri-technology-is-transforming-prostate-cancer-care 

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 05 Sep 2019 at 13:04
The major NHS hospitals in London do scans for Private Patients to help supplement their pots. My experience is that costs can vary between them but a possible problem for you might be scanner availability for the time you are in London, although self funding can sometimes promote you in a queue. UCLH in London told me they do the best scans in Europe but I don't think there is a way to confirm this. Also, it's not just a matter of the scan but the interpretation of it. The Royal Mardsen and Guys also have a good reputation. The Paul Strickland Scanner Centre has also been used by some of us. It's best to contact the hospitals directly but I suggest you do it soon.
Barry
User
Posted 05 Sep 2019 at 13:43

I and two friends use a London Private Clinic called ‘Santis’. The Professor there did my operation, on the NHS at Guildford, saving me £19,950. I think a scan is around £600-1000. Probably much cheaper in Accra!

Anyway, I think a 3 Tesla HD MP-MRI scan would be much of a muchness as regards imaging wherever you go, and then it’s down to to the radiologist to evaluate the images, usually with a colleague to double check for a second opinion. I got my images on a DVD, which I have never watched!

If you have a bloody big tumour like I had, it would have been picked up on a low-res 1.5T MRI scan. If you happen to have anything untoward or what they say is borderline, don’t let anyone palm you off with a TRUS (‘up the bum’ biopsy), and go for a transperineal / template biopsy instead. Several NHS hospitals have abandoned the TRUS altogether as outdated and with greater risk of infection.

Best of luck.

Cheers, John.

Edited by member 05 Sep 2019 at 13:50  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 05 Sep 2019 at 14:22

Thank you for your feedback. I have been seen by a Urologist here in Accra and had various tests and he has recommended a TRUS. Have since done some research and come to the conclusion that an 3TMRI is the best option before a biopsy is attempted. Unfortunately I'm pretty sure that the MRI machines available here are of the old type and not 3T, hence my wish for a test in the UK. I will look into all your suggestions and let you know my decisions.

User
Posted 05 Sep 2019 at 15:00
Too big a deal of 3T is made I think. It would be great if every cancer centre in England could get to 1.5T standard with at least one machine that is not officially obsolete first. Don't automatically assume that we have better services here than you can get in Ghana :-/ Wherever you end up getting it, I would be more bothered about confirmation that it will be to PROMIS standard than whether it is 1.5 or 3T.
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 05 Sep 2019 at 20:45

3T can be used to get higher resolution, or to do the scan faster.

Higher resolution isn't really justified for an initial PCa mpMRI scan.

Infected lymph nodes can be hard to identify on an mpMRI (mainly done by trying to spot they swelled from normal bean shape to spherical), but if further investigation of them is required, a CT scan or PET scan is likely to give a clearer result.

By the way, many private hospitals can do the mpMRI scan, certainly all those which can do radiotherapy, and many more besides. (NHS is now farming some prostate mpMRI scans out to private facilities.) One slight thing to bear in mind is that a very small number of people have an allergic reaction to the gadolinium contrast dye and need emergency transfer to A&E. In an NHS hospital, that's probably just down a few corridors, but in a private hospital, it's going to be calling an an ambulance and a ride to their nearest NHS A&E.

 

Edited by member 05 Sep 2019 at 20:47  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 07 Sep 2019 at 11:17

Thank you all for your advice. I have discovered that there is a 1.5T scanner at a private hospital here and that they do prostate scans. I will meet with my Doctor this coming week and discuss options before making any decisions. If it is feasable it will be far cheaper here I'm sure which may influence my decision. I'm a little surprised he never mentioned the MRI test, anyway I'll see what he says when we meet.

User
Posted 07 Sep 2019 at 12:27

Do make sure it's a multi-parametric scan, and that they have a radiologist capable of reporting on mpMRI scans (that's a particular speciality, and not something a general radiologist can do).

User
Posted 20 Dec 2019 at 14:20

Hi there,

                Thank you all for your advice. I can now report that I have had the MRI scan at PaulStrickland Scanner Centre and received back the report. I can't get to see my Urologist until next week or the next. The reports findings are as follows:

                       One lesion, size 1.5, T2W 5, DWI 5, DCE +, PI-RADS v2 5.

                       Remarks: Possible small volume T3A.

                       Nothing found in Urethra, rectum or seminal vesicles.

     Doesn't sound to good to me, any ideas please?

  

User
Posted 20 Dec 2019 at 17:21
PIRADS 5 means that the radiologist is pretty sure it's cancer. The next logical step would be a biopsy to confirm this. The fact that the tumour appears small and localised means there's an excellent chance of curative treatment, so try not to be too worried about it.

Best wishes,

Chris

User
Posted 21 Dec 2019 at 03:34

It not clear whether you would have biopsy and if recommended treatment in UK. (I am not sure how good this is in Ghana nowadays - quite some years since I worked there awhile and was diagnosed with Malaria). I would get your scan put on a disc if you have not yet done as this can be very helpful in placing needles for Biopsy. As john said earlier in this thread, a Template one is more comprehensive than a TRUS with a lower risk of infection. However, the Template one is usually done under general anesthesia (although occasionally with an Epidural) and it would be more expensive.

Usually, treatment options are Surgery or Radiotherapy and if the former is chosen RT may be needed additionally. You would do well to consider these options now so you can consider which you would opt for (assuming both options being open to you) and where you would want any treatment. Usually Hormone Therapy is started before RT and continues anything up to 3 years after it. This normally is given by an injection once every 28 days or once every 3 lunar months. It is often preceded at the very start by a short course of ant-flair tablets. So HT should be no problem in Ghana but RT?

I suggest you download the free'Tool Kit' which provides a lot of basic information about the disease and it's treatment. https://prostatecanceruk.org/prostate-information/our-publications/publications/tool-kit?_ga=2.206109653.795867346.1564408880-1013787081.1564408880

 

Edited by member 21 Dec 2019 at 03:43  | Reason: to highlight link

Barry
User
Posted 21 Dec 2019 at 13:56
Thanks Barry, sorry to hear you contracted malaria whilst you were here, thirteen years now for me malaria free, just luck I guess.

I've already started investigating the options. RT seems highly unlikely here in Ghana and I'm not to keen on having surgery here also. Which leaves having surgery done in the UK. I will carry on with my research and speak to my Urologist here before making a decision. I am not to keen on having a biopsy either so maybe surgery is the best bet.

User
Posted 21 Dec 2019 at 14:31
No one can be sure you actually have cancer until you have the biopsy; it isn't optional. Your results (the T2W, DWI and PIRADS all giving a score of 5) are highly indicative but not absolute - a new member here got the all clear from his template biopsy despite a PIRADS 5.

No respectable surgeon or oncologist in the UK would put you forward for radical treatment without a biopsy (with the exception perhaps of those who are diagnosed with PSA in the thousands or following serious health conditions that lead to scans showing extensive bone mets)

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 21 Dec 2019 at 14:55
Thank you Lyn for clearing that up, I wasn't sure. In that case a Template biopsy would seem to be the next step.
User
Posted 21 Dec 2019 at 22:49
To be fair LB, I started to get the symptoms of Malaria whilst in Sierra Leone despite taking prophylatics but was treated in Ghana when I started my stint there. Although the spasmodic effects gradually came to an end several years later, my donated blood in the UK could not be used as before and not at all after drugs were taken for other things. For some things there was in my time more expertise in Nigeria but not sure whether this extended to medical treatment or is the case now. (Sorry I should not have gratuitously added nostalgic memories to your post).

Let us know the result of the Biopsy and surgery should this be what is decided on. You may be aware that there are several forms of surgery and although there is not much difference in overall success, the Robotic form means a quicker recovery, at least initially but be aware that all call for need for very light duties for maybe a couple of months or more while the internal healing takes place. This applies particularly with regard to lifting things, so you should take this into account in your plans. Also, be aware that some men have problems after surgery that require attention. So please don't consider this is necessarily a quicker route back to normal working than say an intense form of radiotherapy.

Barry
User
Posted 24 Dec 2019 at 10:47
My next problem will be to find a hospital or clinic willing and able to do the biopsy. For the scan nearly all of them would only except a referral from a UK doctor. Any ideas on that front please would be welcome.
User
Posted 24 Dec 2019 at 11:43
I see you had your MRI scan at Paul Strickland which although not part of Mount Vernon Hospital work closely with them. If you give Mount Vernon your histology they should be able to call over the scan and I would have thought based on this would have been able to get a doctor to approve a biopsy for you. Back in 2015 Paul Strickland required a referral for my PSMA scan from a Consultant rather than a GP. They suggested I go through Mount Vernon Hospital who helpfully made the request on my behalf and gave an opinion on the scan. So I would try this or seek advice from one of the staff on this Charity about getting a biopsy. There are strange rules and ways of doing things in the UK!
Barry
User
Posted 24 Dec 2019 at 11:57
Thanks Barry, I will try that. I have put out requests at other hospitals but nothing back so far. Merry Christmas to you.
User
Posted 28 Mar 2020 at 13:55

Hi all,

          Due to a number of factors I won't go into here, in the end I went for a TRUS biopsy here in Ghana two weeks ago and have now received the results which are as follows;

                   1.  Right lobe prostate:

                     - Benign prostatic hyperplasia with a non-specific chronic prostatitis.

                     - There is no evidence of high grade prostatic intraepithelial neoplasia or infiltrating adenocarcinoma.

                   2.  Left lobe prostate:

                     - Infiltrating prostatic adenocarcinoma corresponding to Gleason combined score 8 (4+4).

                     - There is no evidence of perineural or lymphovascular invasion.

                     - Infiltrating adenocarcinoma is identified wirhin two of seven cores of tissue with a total tumour volume of approximately 5%.

 

                       As I've only just received the results I haven't seen the doctor yet, I hope to at the end of the week, coronavirus restrictions not withstanding.

                      Any thoughts on my results would be appreciated in the meantime,

                                                                thanks Bill

User
Posted 28 Mar 2020 at 23:34

So the right lobe of your Prostate looks to be is enlarged (BPH) with some inflammation. The left side with a Gleason of 4+4 albeit 5% in a small number of cores is a diagnosis many would want treated but you will doubtless discuss with a Urologist and Oncologist as to whether treatment could be left for some time, particularly with the C Virus impacting on treatment schedules. You will now be aware of the two most usual options, ie one of the forms of surgery or radiotherapy if you opt for radical treatment. Focal treatment could be a possibility with a small volume of cancer but this is not widely available. On the other hand and in the present circumstances you might decide to defer radical treatment and either have Active Surveillance (AS) or start HT as a holding operation or as a preliminary to having RT, the latter being quite a usual practice. Much will depend on the way you and your clinicians see it. Should you decide you want active treatment, you will need to decide not only the treatment you want (assuming there is choice), but where you want it and when in view of your location and current restrictions.

Edited by member 29 Mar 2020 at 03:52  | Reason: Wrong word

Barry
 
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