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Just a question on diet

User
Posted 15 Sep 2019 at 17:26

5 years ago I was diagnosed with diabetes type 2. My response was pretty rapid, I threw out all my flour, pasta, rice and various sugars, lost 25kg and last year was classified as in remission, my blood sugar was under control from diet and exercise. It's probable my diabetes was caused by a reaction to the various statins I have been prescribed.

June this year diagnosed PCa and had my gland removed 4-Sep-19.

Sent home with not much information except a Uninary Catheter Care Passport, which has the following advice on diet.

1.5 to 2 liters of water, check.

Consider limiting alcohol and caffeine intake as this may irritate your bladder. First thing I was offered after surgery was a cup of tea or coffee.... I went for milk.

Eat a balanced, healthy diet.

Fibre can improve our bowel habit.... yes please God!!! Try to eat 5 portions of fruit and veg every day.

 

As a diabetic I don't eat carbohydrates, and fruit and some veg can be a problem.

This leaves fat and protein, which is what I eaten for the last 5 years.

In this forum I've noticed a number of folk excluding dairy and red meat from their diets. Is this directly related to PCa or just part of the trend against dairy and red meat?

Cheers

Hj

 

User
Posted 15 Sep 2019 at 19:17
So soon after surgery, you should be eating whatever you fancy within reason; your body needs about 5000 calories per day to heal from major abdominal surgery so this is not the time for dramatic diet changes. Maybe once you are fully recovered, you can think about changes you might want to make.

People have different and sometimes very strongly held views re a prostate healthy diet. There is a body of evidence that red muscle meat, eggs and dairy are causes of PCa and that if young boys / teenagers had only limited amounts, PCa could be eradicated. However, there is very little evidence that eating these things has any influence once you have been diagnosed - it is too late then. The Prostate Cancer Research Foundation did some research and concluded that reducing the amount of muscle meat / dairy / eggs and increasing your intake of oily fish, processed tomatoes, garlic, soya etc could slow down advanced PCa but again, there was no evidence at all that diet made any difference to men that have had their prostate removed or irradiated.

There are many followers of the Plant diet, written by Dr Jane Plant (although she was not a medical doctor) - the Plant diet is more rigid in that followers eat NO meat, dairy, etc. She devised the diet and allegedly cured herself of breast cancer having realised that cancer rates were much lower in the Far East where they don’t eat these things. Although she did subsequently die of breast cancer, thousands of people still buy the book and follow the diet religiously 🤷‍♂️ In general, a Mediterranean diet is thought to be good for us all for all sorts of reasons and does no harm but for now, it is more important that you eat well and recover fully.

The caffeine advice is limited to while you have the catheter and is not rigid.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 14 Nov 2019 at 08:50

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
I do find the research on diet and a whole host of conditions fairly difficult to use. There is so much that the actual science is poor.

The actual science on diet and cancer is not poor at all - but it get buried under a bunch of hokum by the snake oil salesmen.

The key is to separate the dietary research on the causes of cancer from research affecting the course of cancer.

On the former, there's a fair bit of research in some areas - eg bowel cancer - but little useful research on others, such as PCa.

On the latter, there's a fair bit of research, but none showing that particular foods alter the course of the cancer. The research consistently shows that diet does NOT alter the course of the cancer

There is a lot of research that shows a decent, balanced diet and cutting out red meat and dairy will give you a fair chance of living longer, but you don't need PCa to get that benefit - it's available to everyone.

.

-- Andrew --

"I intend to live forever, or die trying" - Groucho Marx

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User
Posted 15 Sep 2019 at 19:17
So soon after surgery, you should be eating whatever you fancy within reason; your body needs about 5000 calories per day to heal from major abdominal surgery so this is not the time for dramatic diet changes. Maybe once you are fully recovered, you can think about changes you might want to make.

People have different and sometimes very strongly held views re a prostate healthy diet. There is a body of evidence that red muscle meat, eggs and dairy are causes of PCa and that if young boys / teenagers had only limited amounts, PCa could be eradicated. However, there is very little evidence that eating these things has any influence once you have been diagnosed - it is too late then. The Prostate Cancer Research Foundation did some research and concluded that reducing the amount of muscle meat / dairy / eggs and increasing your intake of oily fish, processed tomatoes, garlic, soya etc could slow down advanced PCa but again, there was no evidence at all that diet made any difference to men that have had their prostate removed or irradiated.

There are many followers of the Plant diet, written by Dr Jane Plant (although she was not a medical doctor) - the Plant diet is more rigid in that followers eat NO meat, dairy, etc. She devised the diet and allegedly cured herself of breast cancer having realised that cancer rates were much lower in the Far East where they don’t eat these things. Although she did subsequently die of breast cancer, thousands of people still buy the book and follow the diet religiously 🤷‍♂️ In general, a Mediterranean diet is thought to be good for us all for all sorts of reasons and does no harm but for now, it is more important that you eat well and recover fully.

The caffeine advice is limited to while you have the catheter and is not rigid.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 19 Sep 2019 at 18:45

Hi Lyn

Thank you for your informative reply. I do find the research on diet and a whole host of conditions fairly difficult to use. There is so much that the actual science is poor.

I will continue with my low carb and high fat and see how it goes.

I had my catheter taken out two days ago and readjusting all over again.

I wish you well.

Hj

 

User
Posted 13 Nov 2019 at 15:14

Just reviving this thread briefly because, yesterday, I attended a talk at my local surgery given by a GP who specializes in the management of Diabetes. For the record I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes last year. My first Hba1c reading was 49 and two subsequent ones have been 48 so just over the line (40 to 47 being pre-diabetic as I understand it).

The dietary advice was very much focused on eating "real" food - nothing too processed. There was a general condemnation of breakfast cereals (I've seen this a lot in my reading about the subject) and a breakfast of largely high protein and fat foods like eggs was seen to be beneficial as it doesn't cause sugar spikes and keeps you full for longer. An alternative is yoghurt with fruit and/or nuts and seeds. Bread was to be minimized as well. Main meals should be largely protein and vegetable based.

I raised the issue of red meat, dairy and so on with relation to Prostate Cancer. She conceded that this was not an area of expertise she had but she was very clear that the dietary path she was recommending was absolutely not Atkins or anything like it. There was a big focus on vegetables and she said that the diet could be adapted for vegans and vegetarians. She ventured the opinion that a reduction in blood sugar levels can only be beneficial for cancer patients anyway. She also said she wanted to emphasise real food so grass fed beef not the cheap stuff injected with hormones and anti-biotics.

Finally, junk the spreads like Flora etc. Real butter far better (in moderation of course). 

I left feeling that I could adapt the dietary plan for my diabetes without being detrimental to my Pca. I am not wholly convinced my biscuit, chocolate and cake habits were helping much anyway.

An interesting area.

Edited by member 13 Nov 2019 at 15:16  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 14 Nov 2019 at 08:50

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
I do find the research on diet and a whole host of conditions fairly difficult to use. There is so much that the actual science is poor.

The actual science on diet and cancer is not poor at all - but it get buried under a bunch of hokum by the snake oil salesmen.

The key is to separate the dietary research on the causes of cancer from research affecting the course of cancer.

On the former, there's a fair bit of research in some areas - eg bowel cancer - but little useful research on others, such as PCa.

On the latter, there's a fair bit of research, but none showing that particular foods alter the course of the cancer. The research consistently shows that diet does NOT alter the course of the cancer

There is a lot of research that shows a decent, balanced diet and cutting out red meat and dairy will give you a fair chance of living longer, but you don't need PCa to get that benefit - it's available to everyone.

.

-- Andrew --

"I intend to live forever, or die trying" - Groucho Marx

 
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