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Rapidly rising PSA concerns

User
Posted 19 Sep 2019 at 00:22

Hello. I have locally advanced prostate cancer as confirmed by MRI and CT scans, with no bone metastases. I have no symptoms. I have been doing many alternative/naturopathic treatments for over two years. But my PSA continues to rise. It is now about 80. Is it possible that PSA is rising and will continue to rise even if the cancer is not advancing? If it is rising at this rate (it went up 10 points in one month), is that an indication that the cancer is progressing rapidly and will kill me soon? Thank you.

User
Posted 19 Sep 2019 at 02:16
Not sure how you could have been diagnosed with absolute certainty without a biopsy but the rising PSA indicates that the cancer is progressing quite rapidly. There is no alternative or naturopathic treatment that can halt prostate cancer - either go and see an onco to get a proper diagnosis and confirm whether there is any spread to bones or other organs or start thinking about practical things like getting your affairs in order. My father in law declined treatment and lived for 4 years.
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 19 Sep 2019 at 02:20

Hi Stan,

You need to go and get some real (conventional) treatment right now if you want to live, starting with new scans and a biopsy unless the scans are recent.

An untreated increase from 5 to 80 shows the cancer has progressed. You have proved your current treatment isn't working.

The actual PSA value doesn't say how quickly it's going to kill you. It might be a small cancer which produces lots of excess PSA, or a large cancer which doesn't produce as much PSA. The doubling time is perhaps more interesting. If it went up 10 points in one month when it's about 80, the doubling time is 8 months (roughly).

Have you had a biopsy? If not, what was the MRI PIRADS score?

User
Posted 19 Sep 2019 at 09:07
He says in his profile that he never had a biopsy, Andy. Plus we can't really calculate doubling time just from a start point and a stop point and he doesn't say which month had the 10 point rise but if his PSA was 5 two years ago and is now 80, his doubling time is around 6 months ... if his PSA was still 5 in May this year and is now 80 his doubling time is 4 weeks.
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 19 Sep 2019 at 10:04

I have no objection to natural / alternative approaches to treatment, but I object strongly to those that have zero evidence to show that they work. Which by an extraordinary coincidence happens to be all of them.

While it may already be too late to get the full benefit from sensible treatment, today would be a good time to start. Even if you have decided 'to let mature run its course' - and there's nothing wrong with that - at least get your GP to refer you to the hospice team so that you maximise your chances of a good death.

There's no martyrdom with cancer, it's simply a matter of choosing your priorities. Good Luck!

.

-- Andrew --

"I intend to live forever, or die trying" - Groucho Marx

User
Posted 19 Sep 2019 at 10:21
Is there any reason that you're not having proper medical treatment, Stan? Death from advanced prostate cancer is not a pleasant way to go, and there is ZERO evidence to support the efficacy of "alternative" treatment. I'd strongly urge you to make an appointment with an oncologist at the earliest opportunity and get a proper treatment plan in place.

Best wishes,

Chris

User
Posted 19 Sep 2019 at 17:16

Thank you all for your responses--I respect where you're coming from. I posted here on the chance I would learn something new. To answer your questions and concerns briefly: my medical team includes a naturopathic oncologist, a homeopath, a urologist, and a conventional oncologist. I am leery of conventional treatments because I am supersensitive and have often experienced paradoxical reactions to medications--this is where the medication produces the opposite of the intended effect. I have not had a "diagnosis" as the US medical and insurance industries define it (that is, needle biopsy), but my urologist did a DRE and concluded from that alone that I had prostate cancer. The MRI and later CT scan confirmed this. If you believe that there is no evidence for the efficacy of alternative treatments, you have not read the numerous scientifically valid, peer reviewed studies that show outcomes for many of them exceeding those of conventional treatments. For the studies, you can consult greenmedinfo.com. For an interesting perspective, see howtostarvecancer.com. There are many, many websites devoted to alternative treatments--some of them wacky and some of them fully grounded in carefully documented evidence. I wish you all well in your journeys and will continue to seek approaches that are appropriate for my body and immune system.

User
Posted 19 Sep 2019 at 17:30
I don't doubt your commitment, Stan. The point is that your alternative path is clearly not working and death from prostate cancer is an unpleasant and distressing end.
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 19 Sep 2019 at 17:34

hi Stan 

Can you post  all your PSA values and dates.

I think you wanted to learn something new.

this would help   

  all the best 

 

 

User
Posted 19 Sep 2019 at 18:44

Hello Stan.  I would be interested to know what alternative treatments you have had. It's your body of course so totally up to you what you do.

Sometimes it doesn't matter what treatments or not that one has and the cancer progresses relentlessly anyway but if you were my husband I think I would be upset if he chose not  to be treated conventionally. At least there is good evidence many men can and do go onto long term remission with those even if the treatments are pretty brutal and the side effects difficult to deal with. 

I would imagine many men have side effects from alternative treatments as well and there is always plenty of genuine people out there with the best of intentions but also plenty of quacks happy to part folk from their money.

My dream is that one day there will much kinder treatments that actually cure the disease but I imagine that's a long way off and why we need to support PCUK .

Best wishes whatever you do in the future.

Ann x

 

User
Posted 20 Sep 2019 at 07:19

you have not read the numerous scientifically valid, peer reviewed studies that show outcomes for many of them exceeding those of conventional treatments.

That is because these studies are reported in non scientific magazines not scientific journals.

https://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2017/11/01/alternative-cancer-therapies-the-potential-impact-on-survival/

Sums it up. Alternative treatments make cancer patients die earlier.

I also need to point out that a naturopathic oncologist is not a recognised medical profession.

This is not a dig at you. I am pointing out hard facts to those considering “alternative” treatments so they can make a more informed choice.

 

 

Edited by member 20 Sep 2019 at 07:20  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 20 Sep 2019 at 07:51

You've said it yourself, Stan: your PSA is steadily rising. Unfortunately the inescapable conclusion that must be drawn from that is that your treatment is not working, and the cancer is spreading.

I would urge you in the strongest possible terms to switch to conventional treatment immediately. If you don't do so, the cancer will kill you, and it's not a pleasant or an easy way to die.

Best wishes,

Chris

 
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