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My Retzius sparing RARP + NeuroSAFE journey

User
Posted 19 Oct 2020 at 23:25

Hi AppleTree

Posting here as your inbox is still showing full :-)

Yes all good thanks although could do with a good BBQ or party. Been keeping things sensible until we have a vaccine. Hope all is good with you guys too and great news you are moving things forward.

London Bridge is a great venue. The private rooms are big with an en suite. Food is very good and staff great, so you are in the best place I think. TV also very good but I also took a Roku media player and plugged it into the back of the Samsung TV with HDMI and connected to free wifi to stream tv/movies of my choice.

Apart from COVID my physical self is pretty much back to normal. I had pelvic discomfort for a few months post off given all the cutting I guess so to be expected. This has settled to the point I don't really give it a second thought. 

No problems at night with leakage. Has two bed wetting episodes earlier in the year but only because I had drunk a skinful of wine with a mate. Slight drip or two mid last week as I slept right though for 7hours and bladder full when I woke but aside from those three instances everything is all fine.

During daytime I’ve only ever found I get drips if I have too much beer with a mate. Aside from that been perfectly dry since 5 weeks post op. Pretty much same as pre-op but because you effectively only have one bladder valve now in the pelvic floor just need to not force passing wind too hard or watch it when sneezing sometimes. Any issue usually mitigated by just tensing the pelvic floor muscle so non issue as I do it without thinking. On a day to day basis fine and dry. I have not used pads for ages…. although I did when having bloods for reassurance but didnt need them really as no leaks. I just get very nervous with needles and need to wee a lot before they are done.

No problems at all with penetrative sex. I would say if I'm not tired I get erections same as pre-op. If tired maybe 80-90%. If I take a tadalafil I get erections similar to when I was in my 20's!

The voiding issue I had in May I isolated to taking caffeine in coffee or tea. It was strange as up to that point it wasnt a problem. Solution was to just stop taking coffee/tea and no problems since. I now have hot cocoa and milk for breakfast as a substitute. I will test coffee again at some point but dont miss it that much.

In terms of retzius and perceived risk. I wouldnt worry as the Professor only spares the nerves if neurosafe shows in the live surgical samples sample that there is not spread of cancer near the nerve area. As it happened, I lost one bundle as the prof was being extra cautious to ensure good surgical negative margins.

The blood thinners injections were fine. I hate needles but found them very easy to administer. I didnt enjoy it but barely felt anything and just got it out the way first thing in the morning. On the plus side the needles are the thinnest available. Take the offer of a weeks supply or so from the hospital then top up from your pharmacy. I was lucky as the nurse said you can administer in your stomach or top front of leg(thigh). I didnt fancy injecting my stomach and have an old injury in my left top leg where the nerves are kinda numbed so used that spot but did alternate thigh’s a bit for 28days. Some days didnt feel a thing and other days a slight sting or had to try two spots but overall, much easier than I thought.

I felt great 2 days after the op but important to listen to the clinical advice. Don't carry anything and light duties only! On day 2 I walked about 4km and was on a train for 90mins with my gf who pulled my cabin bag style suitcase.

Two weeks after the op I got a bus into town and train/tube into London bridge so about 2hrs each way. Totally fine. Key points are just dont carry any significant weight. Walking around with a very light day bag backpack should be fine as I took pads and a bottle of water. Flight should be fine but if you are not in business or first class I would take something soft to sit on plus some pain killers. Plus flying after catheter out much easier. Or would be a bit of a headache managing it I suspect.

The gym is fine although dont go much with COVID about. No leaks experienced with weights at light to medium level. I dont use a pad at all for this. I do some kegal several times a week. It’s useful to do just some regularly so you become familiar with the muscle group needed to tense when required...i.e. a massive sneeze or forcing wind. 

Histology results were thankfully quick for me. The prof said several weeks but I had them in just under a week. If you use the Prof's Santis website that is brilliant as you get them direct as they are sent so all very efficient and making good use of technology so patients are kept in the loop at all times.

The prof sent me an email review of the result and then I saw him at 4 weeks for the formal in person review. Since then I’ve had telephone/skype reviews after 3-month PSA bloods.

In terms of a surgery check list...I did have one somewhere. Will hunt it down. Main things were:

Full length zip sports type trousers which were amazing for accessing my catheter bag on the go and around the house. I bought the Canterbury brand on amazon as was recommended by another patient. They were really good as warm and comfy plus zip allowed me to access the bag anywhere very easily. Ended up buying three pairs :-)

The hospital I suspect will give you a night bag stand for the catheter bag and a 2ltr extension bag. I purchased a large bucket to place that in at night which worked well. If your husband doesnt wake up with a supra pubic tap he will have a normal catheter like I had. They put a statlok device which attaches to the thigh and supports the bag/pipe very well. I was also given a spare statlok so put it on the other leg(thigh) so I could switch the side the bag sat day and night. This reduced the irritation to the end of the penis. One of the statlok clips would pop out randomly so I used to surgical tape for reassurance.

Pants wise avoid anything loose or like boxer shorts. I bought a few packs of Hipster trunks from Asda as worked really well with the catheter and pipe. https://direct.asda.com/george/men/underwear/grey-hipster-trunks-3-pack/GEM738513,default,pd.html

Antiseptic wipes were useful to clean pipes and valves when changing bags at night and first think in the morning. Plus having a wet wipe shower for a few days post-op until I felt confident enough to have a shower.

With the catheter bag its likely there will be a few blockages in the days until removal. Best solutions I found were drinking more and laying on my side. The blockages generally happen inside the bladder where it slightly irritates the bladder lining and causes a small bleed which blocks the balloon valve for the pipe. Laying on your side can allow the blood clots to fall to the side of the bladder and unblock the pipe. Thankfully there was a lot of help on this site with top hints and tips. I panicked a bit initially but after a day or so learnt how to clear it with techniques picked up here.

Bedding I went a bit over the top, but it worked well. I bought a medical grade cheap single duvet and pillow which were waterproof from Amazon. Not great to sleep on but fine for two weeks. This mitigated and risk of me wetting any of my good bedding. Also bought a waterproof mattress cover and some Tena Bed Secure Zone super. These are small absorbent sheets which go under the bed sheet. I placed 2-3 down and have double protection for the bed. Plus tena level 2 and 3 pads for when out and about in the first few weeks post catheter. Level 3 gave the extra reassurance which I found comforting.

A supply of pain killers also useful but I didnt use much at all.

As part of the op your husband will also probably be offered an epidural. I was quite scared of this but went with it as its the gold standard for pain relief. I made a point of not looking at the needle and they use local anaesthetic but I did sting for a moment but it was over pretty quickly. The benefits are huge as I had no post-op pain whatsoever. So thoroughly recommend it :-)

I think thats most things covered off. Also maybe be worth getting some laxatives or lactulose syrup for post op. First few days it’s easy to get constipated. These will help that as the prof recommends not to strain when using the toilet as can damage his amazing work. My gf put me on a vegetable and soup diet post off and after a couple of days things settled down nicely.

So, in summary no regrets what so ever and from erections and continence point of view and surgical outcome massively exceeds my expectations. Just follow the guidelines given in the Profs post op guide and don't over stretch things as it’s easy to feel better than you are after robotic surgery. I was driving week 4 too so all good :-)

My PSA's are still coming back <0.006 (undetectable) and long may that continue. 

I wish you both every success with the surgery. I think you are giving yourself the best opportunity of a good outcome with the Prof plus choice of hospital.

Please keep me posted of progress and don’t hesitate to contact me if you have any more questions.

Cheers

Simon

User
Posted 20 Oct 2020 at 14:32

Dear Simon, 

Thanks so much for the very detailed reply and I don’t know what’s going on with my inbox. I have archived everything and it says that it’s got 100% space left? Is there someone on the site that I could contact to sort out this inbox issue? 😅

What an amazing post surgery outcome on all fronts and it is so encouraging for us to hear such stories going into this, worrying about all sorts of scenarios. 

Thanks for putting our mind at ease about the hospital esp that he will have to do this by himself in such a strange world these days. We just have some concerns about staying in hospital during Covid — not sure if London Bridge is Covid free or if only people testing negative are allowed in. I will try and see if the assistant could help with this. 

It would be super if you could share the surgery check list if you manage to track it down. 

He is flying 3 weeks post op long haul and yes have upgraded the return flight just to make it as smooth as possible. Got a seat close to the toilet! I hope the risk of DVT post op on a flight would be low. Did the wounds feel definitely 100% healed by 3 weeks? And when did you get your first post op Psa test to see if it is undetectable? We thought about staying for that, but worried that it may just end up being too long of a wait and can just run a test here .

Again thanks so much for everything and all the encouraging replies which I am sure I will be reading multiple times to keep myself calm during the unbearable waiting period. We will certainly keep you posted how things go regarding the surgery and recovery etc. I might come back and trouble you with a few random questions as always and hopefully I can get my inbox sorted soon! 

Best regards 

AT

 

 

User
Posted 20 Oct 2020 at 14:59

Appletree

From memory you are only allowed 99 or 100 messages, even if you archive a message it still counts as a message. I have just archived three messages the percentage goes down but the number of messages remains the same.

Thanks Chris

User
Posted 20 Oct 2020 at 16:14
The best thing PCUK could do is remove the inbox completely so that questions and replies are all public. It is so dangerous; replies could be filled with inaccuracies and no one would know to correct the misinformation.

Archiving doesn't free up any space.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 21 Oct 2020 at 04:41
My inbox has been full forever! Don’t know how to empty it.

Cheers, John.

User
Posted 21 Oct 2020 at 07:39

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
My inbox has been full forever! Don’t know how to empty it.

Cheers, John.

Click on "Help" there are instructions there, on how to delete old messages - you are only allowed 100.

User
Posted 22 Oct 2020 at 00:42

hi AT

I'd talk to the Profs PA as she should be able to get the details :-)

I think with the injections and keeping hydrated and moving about a bit should have all bases covered. Just ensure you take appropriate documentation if taking the clexane syringes onboard ie through security and customs.

The prof recommends the first PSA test be done at 10 weeks. Then he reviews week 12.

You should have all the list components in my post. If I think of anything else will post them. Definitely a memory foam or inflatable cushion might help during first weeks of recovery and on the flight.

Please do feel free to ask anything as it comes up!

Simon

User
Posted 27 Oct 2020 at 21:40

AT

these are also very good. I had them with me travelling to and from London Bridge. Ideal for use if catheter bag full and need a quick expansion tank. Originally used TravelJohn (bought on Amazon) a few years back for camping. Ideal when freezing at 4am and you don’t want to walk to outside loos :-). also great for many other uses as I figured. 

http://www.traveljohn.nl/en/our-products/

cheers

Simon

User
Posted 02 Nov 2020 at 12:22
Thanks TechGuy for a detailed story of your journey. As a newly diagnosed fellow IT guy who's 50 I've been interested to read your experience. I'm still working out a week after diagnosis what my options are and how best to deal with this, sadly no private medical cover so likely some reduced options.

I had been leaning towards HIFU as my cancer is I believe one side of the prostate but I've still to have a detailed call with someone to get the full low down. So far all I know is my gleason score and that it' apparently localised. I'm learning more as I read more so my questions lists is ever growing.

Like a good IT consultant I'm making a spreadsheet!

User
Posted 02 Nov 2020 at 12:58
If you click on my profile ‘Bollinge’ you can see my notes on my surgery with the same guy as Symantec (Tech Guy).

I and four friends aged around sixty were all diagnosed with cancer about two years ago. Three of us had ‘top-rated’ surgeons, yet the other three apart from me had recurrence and had to resort to radiation therapy, which they could have had anyway, without surgery.

So make sure you speak to an oncologist as well to discuss your options.

Hifu is a bit of a high-falutin’ innovation, not widely practiced, but ‘Old Barry’ here is well versed in it and able to advise. Get in touch with him.

Best of luck.

Cheers, John.

User
Posted 02 Nov 2020 at 20:46

Hi Chris

Good old spreadsheets....if its good enough for Covid-19 test & trace....whooops :D

If you are London based definitely worth spending a couple of hundred quid to chat with the UCLH HIFU team I'd say. It was my initial preferred route until I found mine was multi-focal. Plus after some research and seeing that PCa tends to be a multi-focal disease by its very nature this pushed me in the direction of surgery. Talking with a few peeps here and via local support groups I found the fantastic Prof Whocannotbenamedhere (Same as Bollinge) to give myself the best chance of a good outcome. He operates out of London Bridge amongst others. 

Tap up 'AndyProstate' on here as he's been through the HIFU journey at UCLH and recently had a RARP (Robotic Surgery). 

If the NHS route has heavy delays the Private options are worth scoping out if you have budget (around ~£20k) I was seen within a few weeks of initial consultation for a 2nd opinion with the Prof. Not sure of leads times with COVID but if you have the cash I would be tempted to explore these avenues. Luckily I had private medical which thankfully I'd never cancelled in the years I never needed it.

With a gleason of 4+3 i'd tend not to wait to long. My pre-op gleason score was 3+3. Post-op histology revealed final gleason score of 3+4. At some point its likely the tumour will break through the capsule of the prostate plus being a metastatic disease the sooner it can be treated the better.

Shout me if you need any more info as more than pleased to help. 

Simon

 

 

User
Posted 02 Nov 2020 at 23:34

These recent public studies are am interesting read ref: Retzius Sparing Robotic Assisted Radical Prostatectomy(RS-RARP):

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666168320358304

https://www.auajournals.org/doi/10.1097/JU.0000000000001435#.X5G6Q9PhcuE.twitter

 

User
Posted 03 Nov 2020 at 14:50

Symantec, an interesting read of course, thank you.

I have no incontinence problems, and no Peyronie’s disease as what’s left of my penis is too short to turn a right angle and I can’t get it erect anyway!😉😂😉😷

You can’t have everything I suppose, and I haven’t got cancer, so happy days!

Cheers, John.

Edited by member 03 Nov 2020 at 14:52  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 04 Nov 2020 at 12:18

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
If you click on my profile ‘Bollinge’ you can see my notes on my surgery with the same guy as Symantec (Tech Guy).

I and four friends aged around sixty were all diagnosed with cancer about two years ago. Three of us had ‘top-rated’ surgeons, yet the other three apart from me had recurrence and had to resort to radiation therapy, which they could have had anyway, without surgery.

So make sure you speak to an oncologist as well to discuss your options.

Hifu is a bit of a high-falutin’ innovation, not widely practiced, but ‘Old Barry’ here is well versed in it and able to advise. Get in touch with him.

Best of luck.

Cheers, John.

I have very similar PCa diagnosis to you, 4+3. Did you have RARP? Was it private or NHS? I'm worried about how long it's taking to come up with a treatment option and how long it takes to talk to any consultant/doctors!

User
Posted 04 Nov 2020 at 12:45
I saw the local NHS urologist, but a rich friend with it who had seen five different surgeons on three continents recommended Professor Whocannotbenamedhere who had done over three thousand prostatectomies and was pioneering Retzius-sparing in Britain.

I saw him privately in his palatial rooms in The Shard on the South Bank on London, @ £250 for twenty minutes. He charges £20,000 for the procedure Tech Guy had on his insurance, but I asked him to put me on his list on the NHS at Guildford, which he was happy to do.

When I mentioned Retzius-sparing to my local NHS surgeon at my ‘Dear John’ meeting, he said: ‘You’d better speak to Prof XXXX then. ‘I replied, funny enough, I have a consultation already arranged with him next week in London’. I had already twigged I had the Big C, so had made preparations for it.

At the height of the previous lockdown, the Prof and his team had their prostate surgery clinic up to 80% capacity, and I would think it’s up to 100% now. As Matron said, PCa is usually slow-growing, and I waited seven months from diagnosis to surgery, which was down to me, not the NHS.

You can find more about prostatectomy if you search for ‘Santis prostate’.

Best of luck.

Cheers, John.

User
Posted 04 Nov 2020 at 12:48

Many thanks John, I'll go check that out!

User
Posted 04 Nov 2020 at 13:08

The private route timings were fast. I booked to see the Prof for an initial consultation on 1st Nov ‘19 at London Bridge (second opinion) and to ask if he was happy do take me on for surgery. Lead time for that was about a week from memory. I could have had surgery  the following week (due to a cancellation) but I put it back for 3 weeks to get all my affairs in order etc Plus 8 weeks previous I had the biopsy so I was mindful to let that heal and be less ‘sticky’ internally.

I forwarded a case notes summary before the consultation then took a folder with complete history and disc with copy of my recent scan which he welcomed.

Surgery took place early morning on Weds 27th Nov 19 and I got home mid (via a 90min train trip/bus) afternoon on Friday 29th......crazy day as we left~ 30mins before whole area went into lockdown with the London Bridge terror attack.

End to end a very smooth experience. 

Edited by member 04 Nov 2020 at 13:11  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 04 Nov 2020 at 13:15

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

The private route timings were fast. I booked to see the Prof for an initial consultation on 1st Nov ‘19 at London Bridge (second opinion) and to ask if he was happy do take me on for surgery. Lead time for that was about a week from memory. I could have had surgery  the following week (due to a cancellation) but I put it back for 3 weeks to get all my affairs in order etc Plus 8 weeks previous I had the biopsy so I was mindful to let that heal and be less ‘sticky’ internally.

I forwarded a case notes summary before the consultation then took a folder with complete history and disc with copy of my recent scan which he welcomed.

Surgery took place early morning on Weds 27th Nov 19 and I got home mid (via a 90min train trip/bus) afternoon on Friday 29th......crazy day as we left~ 30mins before whole area went into lockdown with the London Bridge terror attack.

End to end a very smooth experience. 

 

Sounds like a positive experience. Sadly I don't have 20k around and due to my hear bypass in 2017 no medical cover! That being said I could cover a consultation to discuss my case and see if it's a candidate for RARP type surgery. If so I'd need to get referred to his NHS hospital in Surrey and no idea on the wait time for that.

User
Posted 04 Nov 2020 at 13:50

Hi Chris

I’d say worth the consultation if only for another perspective. I found the Prof very easy to discuss my case with and it just rubber stamped my gut feeling that this was the route to take. He demonstrated immense knowledge and very impartial. Following the meeting I bit the bullet and decided to move ahead with the RARP as felt I was in safe hands with the best probability of a good outcome.

Not a single regret since.

Good luck and shout if you have any more questions.

Simon

User
Posted 04 Nov 2020 at 16:19

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
Sadly I don't have 20k around and due to my hear bypass in 2017 no medical cover! That being said I could cover a consultation to discuss my case and see if it's a candidate for RARP type surgery. If so I'd need to get referred to his NHS hospital in Surrey and no idea on the wait time for that.

 

You might need to check & re-think before you spend lots of money on private consultations. In many cases, a previous heart bypass rules out keyhole surgery because it puts so much stress on the heart - you are tipped head down for a number of hours on the operating table. If you want surgery, you may have to look for a surgeon who offers open RP and accept that recovery will take a bit longer. 

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

 
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