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Real head scratcher

User
Posted 20 Oct 2020 at 13:49

My husband was diagnosed with PC April 2020. PSA 7.6. Nothing abnormal on DRE. MRI & Template Biopsy on 2 areas. 15 samples from one & 16 from the other. Well contained within prostate. Result 3+3 =6 on Gleason score. Put on active surveillance.


Now the mystery begins. PSA July 2020 9.1 Conclusion was things still settling from biopsy & he may take a bit longer to heal. However PSA repeated October 1st 2020. This has now risen to 12.1!! 


Consultant is to be frank totally perplexed. As I am a retired registered nurse with some Urology experience I asked several questions as follows :


1. What was the chance the consultant who performed the biopsy missed an area? Answer was highly unlikely as very experienced consultant in this procedure who was brought to the hospital trust to do this & also trains other surgeons in the procedure. Also from the MRI they were very precise in where they went.


2. Why is PSA rising ? Answer '' I have no idea & I really cannot tell you. Therefore I would strongly advise we re biopsy. '' Admitted this is very unusual & he & the other Urologists within the department are scratching their heads. 


3. What else could be causing rise? Answer possible asymptomatic prostatitis but there should be some symptoms showing of this. ( there are none ). There is no urinary infection, no signs of discomfort, nothing.


So everyone is basically stumped. Consultant is arranging another template biopsy which my husband is overjoyed at but realises its a needs must. Has anyone on here had anything like this happen to them? Any help, suggestions would be gratefully appreciated. 


 

User
Posted 20 Oct 2020 at 16:19
Inflammation doesn't always produce symptoms but can raise the PSA. Same with prostatitis.
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 20 Oct 2020 at 22:46
I would have thought it might be worth treating for possible prostatitis and infection and rechecking PSA before resorting to another biopsy.
Barry
User
Posted 21 Oct 2020 at 07:32
Anti biotics if that doesn't sort it then it sounds like it needs to come out.
User
Posted 21 Oct 2020 at 10:41

Roughly 25% of initially diagnosed Gleason 3 + 3 ends up with something more aggressive over time.  This is due to the fact that either the initial 3 + 3 was misdiagnosed and/or the biopsy missed the more aggressive cancer.  This has little to do with the skill of the person performing the biopsy but rather due to random chance.  Its likely the biopsy was both targeted and systematic with the targeted areas finding the cores with PC and the systematic(random) cores finding nothing, but there is always a chance to miss something.  Gleason 3 + 3 progressing itself is rare to non-existent.  


Question: BPH can also cause a rise in PSA.  You didn't mention this as a possibility so I assume it was eliminated as a potential cause.  Three months after the biopsy seems out of the general window of after-effects from the biopsy.  I am also on AS with 3 + 3 with total volume in two cores of 1.7mm.  It seems the request for a 2nd biopsy seems prudent.


Here is some content from some studies I've read on the subject.


Gleason score 6 cancer has little or no metastatic potential. One study of 14 000 men with pathologically confirmed Gleason pattern 6, identified only 22 cases with lymph-node metastases [24]. All 22 men had higher grade cancer on re-examination of the tissue. Thus, the rate of lymph-node metastases in men whose surgical pathology contained no higher grade cancer was zero. Another study of 12 000 men treated with radical prostatectomy whose specimen had only Gleason score 6 cancer [25], found the prostate cancer mortality was 0.2% at 20 years. The few cases who had metastases had evidence of higher grade cancer on re-review. This low level of metastasis is remarkable given the imprecision and between observer variation in the assignment of Gleason score.


Co-existent higher grade cancer is common, but spontaneous grade progression (from Gleason score 3 to 4 or 5) is uncommon. This has been modeled by several groups; the estimate is that 1%–2% of patients per year will undergo grade progression. In most cases, this occurs in the presence of high volume Gleason score 6 cancers [26].


 


Based on these concepts, AS should be offered to most men with Grade group 1 (Gleason score 6) prostate cancer. The limitation of this approach is misattribution of grade, that is, that 25%–30% of these men diagnosed on the basis of a systematic biopsy actually harbor higher grade cancer. While most of these misattributed cancers are Grade group 2 (Gleason score 3 + 4), and may still have a low metastatic potential, the presence of any Gleason pattern 4 cancer confers an increased risk of eventual metastasis. Thus the crux of managing men on AS is to evaluate the patient further for the presence of co-existent high-grade cancer, and once higher grade cancer is excluded, monitoring them subsequently to ensure it does not develop.


The view that Gleason pattern 3 has little or no metastatic phenotype has had a significant impact on the management of patients with this cancer. Thus, there should be no lower age limit to entering a patient on AS. The quality of life benefits of maintaining normal erectile function and voiding function are greater in young men. Prostate cancers are not rare in young men; microfocal low-grade cancer is found at autopsy in around 40% of men in their 40s [3]. Finding small amounts of Gleason score 6 cancer on a transrectal ultrasound (TRUS)-guided biopsy cannot possibly mean that disease progression is inevitable. High-volume Gleason pattern 3 is important primarily as a marker for patients at higher risk for harbouring higher grade cancer. If higher grade cancer can be excluded in a patient with higher volume Gleason score 6 cancer (based on magnetic resonance imaging [MRI], targeted/template biopsies, and/or biomarkers), such patients are unlikely to require treatment. In rare instances, men under 55 years old present with extensive Gleason score 6 cancer. In these unusual cases, radical intervention, such as surgery, may be appropriate.


 

Edited by member 21 Oct 2020 at 10:54  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 21 Oct 2020 at 19:08

Have you considered biopsy under grading. Not in error but subjective. You might not expect too much of rise at 3+3 but 3+4 ?. However agree with above, rule out other issues before repeat biopsy.


Ray
.

Edited by member 21 Oct 2020 at 19:10  | Reason: Not specified

 
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