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Dad diagnosed with advanced PC, 'superscan' shows mets in over 75% of bones, nodules in lung too

User
Posted 21 Nov 2020 at 12:06

We're still trying to get our heads around this recent diagnosis.

Due to coronovirus (the gift that apparently just keeps on giving) my dad received the results of his diagnostic tests for PC by telephone. We waited 2 hours for the call, only to be rung by the consultant who said that he was having technical problems and that he'd call back in 30 mins, but the news 'wasn't that bad'. 

I'm really not sure how he could think that was the case. When he rang 45 mins later the news was:

PSA: 6800!!

Gleason 9

Significant bone mets (in fact his bone scan had been a 'superscan' showing mets in over 75% of his bones, no radioactive medium made it to his kidneys)

Oh, and nodules in a lung, which could be cancer too, but we'd have to wait for a further CT scan to see if its responded to the ADT to know for sure.

My dad is only 60, but in poor health, former alcoholic (although teetotal for 20 years), very heavy smoker of both rollups and cannabis, poor diet, very sedentary lifestyle - basically hasn't looked after himself over the years despite much cajoling from me and my brother. 

The consultant felt that he should respond well to ADT coupled with Xtandi (Enzalutamide) and that he might get many years yet. He's lost several stone very quickly, is weak, complains of pain in his back, hip and shoulder (no wonder!!), has had pins and needles in hand, although I'm guessing no spinal compression was evident from his scans as the consultant didn't seem concerned) and frankly, despite no liver mets, looks a bit yellow. In short, he very much resembles someone who is dying. I am scared for him, but the consultant seems to think everything will be OK (or at least in the medium term - we know his care is palliative). Am.i overreacting? 

User
Posted 21 Nov 2020 at 16:19
Don’t know what a ‘super scan’ is. A bone scan?

Enzalutamide is classed as a ‘wonder drug’, as it should be, at a cost of around a hundred quid a day!

In view of his numerous co-morbidities, keep your fingers crossed and cherish him as much as you can. And keep him away from the bloody Covid plague! And ditch the fags...

Best of luck.

Cheers, John.

User
Posted 21 Nov 2020 at 16:52
Cheers for the reply John!

I'd never heard of a 'Superscan' either but after looking it up its a bone scan where over 75% of the bones have mets. Basically, the entirety of the contrast medium ends up in the bone, and none ever makes it into the kidneys. In a moment of black humour my dad suggested they ought to rename it a 'super f%£*ed scan.'

Yes, I've read some fantastic things about Enzalutamide on this site, but also that it doesn't work for 50% of people. Just keeping everything crossed for a miracle at the moment as everything seems so bleak.

I've done a lot of reading on this site in the past few days and whilst its reassuring to read about the many members who have had 5 or even 10 years, even with bone mets, I can't help feeling that because of his symptoms, he is going to struggle to rally.

I love my dad but know him well and am very skeptical that he will make any of the lifestyle changes required to complement his treatment. He is very much his own man.

User
Posted 21 Nov 2020 at 20:09

It is impossible to predict what will happen but take heart in the following:-
- Trevor (on here as Trevor_Boothe) was diagnosed with a PSA of 13,000 and lived for over 5 years despite serious heart problems
- smoking hasn’t been associated with the effectiveness of hormone treatment
- there are members here who have made dramatic changes to their diet and lifestyle post-diagnosis, but not everyone does and there isn’t any anecdotal evidence that the members who don’t make big changes do any worse than the others

You say that the liver was clear of cancer in the scan but considering the alcoholism, liver disease is a real possibility. Have you asked whether he has liver disease?

Edited by member 21 Nov 2020 at 20:10  | Reason: Not specified

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 23 Nov 2020 at 17:20

Hello Lyn,

Thankyou so much for your response. I have had a look on here at some of Trevor and his wife's fantastic posts. What an amazing couple! It has given me some real hope for the future, although of course I do appreciate that each treatment journey is as individual as the person going through it! 

My dad is a great bloke, although he is as stubborn as a mule and has always lived life very much on his own terms. I really do think that expecting him to make any lifestyle changes is asking too much of him, and to that end have told him that he must do what he feels he can but that I wouldn't be hounding him about it. I really do feel that nagging won't work and could result in us falling out, which I want to avoid for obvious reasons! 

I haven't asked about his liver, although will at the next opportunity. It is so much harder when doing everything via telephone and not meeting HCPs face to face!

To my eye, I do feel he still looks a little yellow, although that could just be the affect of shock on the system and the result of our Northern winter time!

He has been contacted today to book him in for a cytoscopy (or as he calls it 'camera up the old chap'). He's not entirely thrilled at the idea, despite it being under GA. 

I'm guessing they want to check his bladder and bowel to check for tumours there but wouldn't this have evident on the MRI? He hasn't had many waterworks issues, except for getting up to pee a couple of times in the night, and had no stool issues so I'm hoping this is just standard procedure and not a sign they suspect something is there? The consultant did not mention that he would need this procedure at all, so we were quite surprised when the hospital rang to advise him that he needed a pre-op assessment! 

My fear is that he may be too ill to put under GA. His dental health is very poor which would probably make intubation difficult and his lungs aren't great and as I've said, his liver function may not be what it should be. The nurse said he must stop smoking and cannabis use (which he fessed up to!) at least 24 hours before his GA which would probably be the longest he had managed since he was about 14! I am doubtful that he can do this without help, but don't know whether it would be dangerous if he doesn't or whether even to bring it up. 

He has told the nurse that he is fit apart from the cancer, although he still looks bloody awful and he has lied about his general health which is poor (he gets out of breath going to the loo at the moment). I guess its all relative though - he says he feels better as is in less pain due to the Prostap injections and Bicaltumide which he's already started. I'm glad that he has been able to access Enzalutamide as his first line treatment as I'm not sure he would survive chemotherapy as he is at the moment. 

I really do have everything crossed that the Enza will work his magic and he will start to look and feel in better health. 

 

 

User
Posted 23 Nov 2020 at 17:26
Oops! Sorry about that. I did a bit of a brain dump there. Didn't mean to type so much!
User
Posted 23 Nov 2020 at 22:37
They don’t usually look at the bowel during a cystoscopy and would likely have told him if he was having both ends done :-/ They could be checking something in his bladder that was seen on the scan, or they could be looking at whether the cancer has breached his prostate and moved into his urethra, or they might just want to see whether the prostate is enlarged and preventing him from emptying his bladder properly (which in turn could affect his kidneys).

Also worth noting that cystoscopy doesn’t usually need a GA so worth clarifying with the hospital what exactly they are planning to do at this appointment. The medical staff may need to get your dad’s consent before they can discuss anything with you though.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 24 Nov 2020 at 04:11
Yes, I made a mistake when I said ‘quit the fags’ as that would only make matters worse for him, but that’s the doctors’ mantra: lose weight, take more exercise, drink less, pack up smoking, etc.

Hope his latest tests go well, and the Enzalutamide works - there is another ‘wonder drug’ called Abiraterone if not, but I understand it’s not so efficacious if you have been on Enzalutamide for more than a couple of months.

Best of luck.

Cheers, John.

User
Posted 09 Dec 2020 at 22:08

Thanks Lyn and John,

You're right Lyn, it is just the bladder, not both ends, though we don't have a date for it yet. Seems like they have spotted something on one of his scans blocking one of the Ureters, although he says he has no water-works issues so we won't know until after the scope.

Had a fun few weeks navigating this Brave New Covid Cancer World with my dad. His consultant struggles with the video conferencing technology and also has a bit of a habit of saying the wrong thing which is making everything a bit difficult.

It's so hard when we can't see my dad face to face and can't see his decline like I can. He assured me that it sounds like my dad's cancer is 'getting better' (it is advanced, in over 75% of his bones, and likely lungs, Gleason 9, T4N2M1b) when I asked him what he was basing that on, he said 'I just asked him, and he said he was feeling better' DOH! He definitely isn't going to be getting better unfortunately but if you ever ask any Yorkshireman how they're feeling, they say 'OK' even if they're trapped under a grand piano or being chased by a bear! 

He is starting Enzalutimide this weekend at the highest dose in the hope that we can keep the cancer in check. Dad's consultant seems to be almost agressively optimistic which is actually a bit hard to deal with. HIs PSA has reduced from 6800 to 55 which is great obviously, but I can't help but see the evidence of my own eyes which is that he looks very thin, ill and is really struggling to sit for more than a few minutes at a time. He has so much pain in his bum area and moves like a man 30 years older. He so wants to be improving, he's almost willing it to happen but in truth he actually looks more poorly than he has done so far. 

Oh and the consultant mentioned that his 'bone markers' had increased from 1200 to 5000 in a month, which doesn't sound good, he explained it away with 'but he might just have a fracture' so I really don't know what to make of that. 

User
Posted 09 Dec 2020 at 23:34
Okay - the onco isn't just basing his or her view on what your dad told them - they are trained to spot the small things and the PSA drop to 55 is an amazing response so there are reasons to be hopeful. As the HT really starts to kick in, the pain should reduce which will hopefully improve his general look. Trying to get health shakes into him might be a good bet - it is hard to have an appetite when everything hurts.
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 10 Dec 2020 at 09:51
Cheers Lyn, we're definitely trying to feed him up!

Enza arrives this weekend so hoping he does well on it. Thanks for your response :)

 
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