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Cryotherapy Treatment - UK

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User
Posted 24 Nov 2020 at 14:06

Hi All

Been diagnosed with PCa, joy of joys for us all on I here I guess!! Gleason 4+3, PSA 12.8, 2mm lesion anterior right hand side. I’ve researched to the Nth degree and have decided to go for cryotherapy - paying for it myself unfortunately - and was wondering if anyone else here in the UK has gone down that route and willing to to have a chat about it please before I press the ‘Go’ button?!! Thanks in advance.

User
Posted 06 Dec 2020 at 08:42
I had cryotherapy in May this year (gleason 3+4), PSA 5.1. Had few effects from the procedure other than having a catheter for a week. After 3 months my PSA remained unchanged but at 6 months has dropped to 1.9. Would recommend
User
Posted 20 May 2021 at 14:40

Well, had my cryo 7 Dec, went under at 3pm and was sat up with a cheese and ham baguette and a cuppa at 5pm!! Less discomfort than the transperreneal biopsy, and I didn’t even need a paracetamol for that, so happy days!! Was due to stay in overnight but, as I was feeling fine and wife was in local hotel, they let me out at 6pm.  Catheter was no problem at all to deal with - did have a bit of a blockage problem which I won’t bore you with as the consultant said it was the first time it had occurred, most likely nicked something when he inserted it, so not really anything to do with the procedure itself, just unfortunate. Meant I had the catheter in for 10 days as opposed to 5 - it came out completely painlessly and didn’t even know the nurse had done it until she said I could pull my trousers back up!!

Had first PSA 5 weeks later, 0.39!! Awesome!! Just had first quarterly PSA, 0.42!!  What we all want to hear, absolutely zero side effects!! Peeing like a Skegness donkey, no problems getting an erection, maybe a slight reduction in ‘gentleman’s gel’ production, hard to tell and nothing to write home about!!

So, I literally cannot recommend it highly enough and fingers crossed PSA stays at same level.  Got 3 more quarterly tests followed by an MRI at the end of the year.  

User
Posted 07 Jul 2021 at 14:02

Hi Chris,

Your PSA still seems low at 1.0 and it may be a few years before you need any treatment dependent on MRI scan and biopsy etc.

However, I had localised therapy which has been successful and without any adverse effects. I had cryotherapy which i understand is needed for the anterior segments of the prostate and Hifu for posterior segments.

User
Posted 07 Jul 2021 at 14:38

Hi Chris I replied on your other thread. It may be better if you copy Rogeka's reply there and keep all the posts on your own thread.

Dave

User
Posted 08 Dec 2023 at 17:27

It would be useful to know more about your type of cancer. What info do you have about your diagnosis? Is it the commonest form, adenocarcinoma, or a more rare type such as small cell or mucinous? What Gleason score have you been given - I think you have already posted that it is a G7 but is that a (3+4) or a (4+3)? How many positive cores were there in your biopsy results?

Sometimes, focal therapy isn't suitable because the tumours are not next to each other, or because the tumour is too close to the urethra or bowel wall. But I agree with Barry and your urologist; speak to the focal therapy team so that you know one way or the other.

It also has to be said that focal therapy isn't always a permanent solution - they are aiming just to treat the one or two main areas of cancer and so there is a significant chance of recurrence / need to repeat the focal treatment or have RP / RT in the future

Edited by member 08 Dec 2023 at 17:39  | Reason: Not specified

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

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User
Posted 24 Nov 2020 at 15:43

Hi

I seem to remember Andyprostate had cryo a few years back. Might be worth pinging him a message.

simon

User
Posted 06 Dec 2020 at 08:42
I had cryotherapy in May this year (gleason 3+4), PSA 5.1. Had few effects from the procedure other than having a catheter for a week. After 3 months my PSA remained unchanged but at 6 months has dropped to 1.9. Would recommend
User
Posted 06 Dec 2020 at 08:44
Thanks Rog, good to hear!! I’m in for it at 10.15 tomorrow morning!!
User
Posted 06 Dec 2020 at 08:56
Good Luck Dexy, let us know how you get on, presumably you'll be home tomorrow too, takes a couple of hours for the procedure then a further couple hours recovery was sufficient for me.

The only advice I would give is that nobody said it could take up to 12 months to see PSA reduction. Mine was actually unchanged at 3 months which worried me at the time. It has now started to reduce and I can't tell you how great that feels!

User
Posted 06 Dec 2020 at 09:00
Thx Rog. Consultant said he wanted to keep me in overnight - only had one general anaesthetic before and had no issues, so fingers crossed he lets me out tomorrow, particularly as we’ve a long way to travel and the missus will have a nice hotel room to herself tomorrow night if I’m still stuck in dock!!
User
Posted 06 Dec 2020 at 09:18
I had mine done on NHS as part of a large trial, an overnight stay was never on the cards! My partner drove us home four hours away the same afternoon.

Rog

User
Posted 06 Dec 2020 at 17:12

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
I had mine done on NHS as part of a large trial, an overnight stay was never on the cards! My partner drove us home four hours away the same afternoon.
Rog

This quick recovery is one of the advantages of Focal Treatment, the same being true for HIIFU, both being niche treatments for suitable patients.

Barry
User
Posted 06 Dec 2020 at 19:45
No trials available at minute Rog, did ask, so took out a loan (£14k!!)- what price quality of life is my view, assuming a good outcome!! Likewise, 4 hour drive down to Southampton, and it’s bloody freezing down here!!
User
Posted 06 Dec 2020 at 19:53

Cheers Barry. I wanted HIFU, which is how I was put in touch with the consultant - who luckily does everything, including the robotic radical snatch it out treatment!! He recommended focal cryotherapy over HIFU because of where my lesion is. He explained it all to me, I wish I could remember all the details but can’t so can’t expand why. He’s a uk leader in both HIFU AND Cryotherapy and when he said cryotherapy was cheaper than HIFU it filled me with a bit more confidence as it showed his recommendation wasn’t financially driven, at least I hope not!! Anyway, hopefully this time tomorrow will be chilled out with a cuppa and a smoke with it all done!! Tony

User
Posted 06 Dec 2020 at 20:20

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

Cheers Barry. I wanted HIFU, which is how I was put in touch with the consultant - who luckily does everything, including the robotic radical snatch it out treatment!! He recommended focal cryotherapy over HIFU because of where my lesion is. He explained it all to me, I wish I could remember all the details but can’t so can’t expand why. He’s a uk leader in both HIFU AND Cryotherapy and when he said cryotherapy was cheaper than HIFU it filled me with a bit more confidence as it showed his recommendation wasn’t financially driven, at least I hope not!! Anyway, hopefully this time tomorrow will be chilled out with a cuppa and a smoke with it all done!! Tony

I discussed this with the leading Focal experts at UCLH as treatments for failed RT and within a trial in which I participated.  The view was that they preferred to treat with HIFU where the cancer was located in a position that the HIFU could be focussed, as they were more familiar with it in the UK.  Where this was not reachable Cryotherapy was given.  So this positioning accords with what your consultant told you.

Hope all goes well and please keep us advised.

Barry
User
Posted 06 Dec 2020 at 23:24
Thanks Barry, that makes sense.
User
Posted 20 May 2021 at 12:46
Ho w are you guys doing. I 'm getting Focal Cryotherapy in a two weeks. would love to hear how you are both doing now and what informed your decisions.
User
Posted 20 May 2021 at 13:11

Hi Pog,

Its almost exactly a year since I had focal cryotherapy and I think appears well. My PSA is due again next week and hopefully that will remain below half what it was. I have had a MRI scan and had the results which seem to show the focal area treated has no cancer (but I am awaiting an appointment for proper interpretation in a few weeks). 

My decision to go down the focal route was to avoid RP if at all possible but at the same time start getting some control over what appeared to be a gradual increase in PSA and therefore cancerous activity.

User
Posted 20 May 2021 at 14:40

Well, had my cryo 7 Dec, went under at 3pm and was sat up with a cheese and ham baguette and a cuppa at 5pm!! Less discomfort than the transperreneal biopsy, and I didn’t even need a paracetamol for that, so happy days!! Was due to stay in overnight but, as I was feeling fine and wife was in local hotel, they let me out at 6pm.  Catheter was no problem at all to deal with - did have a bit of a blockage problem which I won’t bore you with as the consultant said it was the first time it had occurred, most likely nicked something when he inserted it, so not really anything to do with the procedure itself, just unfortunate. Meant I had the catheter in for 10 days as opposed to 5 - it came out completely painlessly and didn’t even know the nurse had done it until she said I could pull my trousers back up!!

Had first PSA 5 weeks later, 0.39!! Awesome!! Just had first quarterly PSA, 0.42!!  What we all want to hear, absolutely zero side effects!! Peeing like a Skegness donkey, no problems getting an erection, maybe a slight reduction in ‘gentleman’s gel’ production, hard to tell and nothing to write home about!!

So, I literally cannot recommend it highly enough and fingers crossed PSA stays at same level.  Got 3 more quarterly tests followed by an MRI at the end of the year.  

User
Posted 20 May 2021 at 15:05

Hi Dexy - Hope you are well

Can I ask how did you get onto the Cyrotherapy and where did you have it done?

I have localised but more high risk prostate and was wondering if this might be a better option the surgery or HT and EBRT

Thanks

Joe

 

User
Posted 20 May 2021 at 15:27

Hi Joe

 

Had it done in Southampton. Private job - £15k, but worth it so far.  Went through focal therapy clinic, but probably cheaper direct as it seems ‘they’ are just middle men. Can provide a contact if you wish, but I think the cutoff is Gleason 4+3. Email direct if you wish: tonydexter001@hotmail.com

 

Cheers

 

Tony

User
Posted 27 Jun 2021 at 11:35

Hi Pog

How you doing following your Cryo ?

Considering it myself following consultations in Southampton. Aged 71 fit & active & looking to remain such !

Also seen NHS consultant re RT option -

Considers that may need 'baseline LUTS' beforehand whatever this may entail given enlarged prostate.

Recent PSA test shows comforting small reduction to 7.5 from 7.9 in November which level & increase from 5.9 in May 2019 prompted urology consultant to suggest MRI scan. Biopsy followed in March.

Feedback greatly welcome

Cheers

Frank TJT

 

User
Posted 07 Jul 2021 at 13:40

 I am considering next treatment steps for my 3+4 Gleason Prostate Cancer.

No symptoms at the moment but slowing increasing PSA but still below 1.0

Have been on AS for 2 1/2 years and now considering Localised HIFU treatment whilst cancer is still localised. Also this may remove cancer completely but does not preclude a second HIFU or more radical treatment in the future.

The more radical things like External Beam Therapy seem overkill and potential side effects would be worse than anything I am getting now as I have no symptoms since a TURP.

Surprised to be given Option of all the treatments at Southampton GH but leaning to HIFU as can hit the cancer whilst still concentrated and limited after effects should not limit life quality as still pretty active at 65y.

User
Posted 07 Jul 2021 at 14:02

Hi Chris,

Your PSA still seems low at 1.0 and it may be a few years before you need any treatment dependent on MRI scan and biopsy etc.

However, I had localised therapy which has been successful and without any adverse effects. I had cryotherapy which i understand is needed for the anterior segments of the prostate and Hifu for posterior segments.

User
Posted 07 Jul 2021 at 14:05

Yes PSA still low although on upward trend. Part of my thinking is that physically I am in better condition to deal with treatment now rather than as I get older with goodness knows what other medical issues.  I am avoiding more radical options for inverse reasons - I am generally fit an the thought of longer term impact on life quality now sis not attractive.

 

Also I am lucky enough that HIFU is open to me on the NHS which might not always be the case.

Edited by member 07 Jul 2021 at 14:06  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 07 Jul 2021 at 14:38

Hi Chris I replied on your other thread. It may be better if you copy Rogeka's reply there and keep all the posts on your own thread.

Dave

User
Posted 06 Oct 2023 at 15:19

Hi Guys,

i'm gleason 7 ,3+4 with  80% grade 3 lesions and 20% grade 4 lesions on the  front (anterior right of my prostate ,

i have been offered cryotherapy ...

does anybody who has had this done recenty  have a quick chat with me ?

User
Posted 06 Oct 2023 at 20:40

I had the similar HIFU treatment which worked brilliantly. The surgeon just felt that had a slight advantage in my case over Cryotherapy. Hope someone can share an experience of this treatment with you.  He was one of the leading people in the UK for HIFU so maybe that shaded his recommendation but there did not seem to be much in it.

User
Posted 06 Oct 2023 at 20:58

Hi Chrisreb ,

thanks for your reply,

my original referral was for  Hifu  ,but Hifu isn't and option for me ,

i was very interested in nanoknike ,  but the hospital i'm at doesn't do nanoknife, 

so it's either go for cryo or  start again

 

Edited by member 06 Oct 2023 at 21:13  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 08 Dec 2023 at 10:04

I would like to try cryotherapy but am told by my specialist that it would not be effective for my type of cancer which is almost identical to yours. Did your specialist have a similar conversation with you? She has advised that I speak to the focal therapy team about it and come back with an informed decision around the risk.

Now it feels like I'm back at square one. 

User
Posted 08 Dec 2023 at 13:47
Whilst two cases may appear similar, there can be differences which may make treatment with one form of Focal Therapy better than another or indeed not a good option overall. For example with HIFU, for which there is most experience in the UK and that is not vast only going back about 15 or so years, as well as it not being able to focus on some parts of the Prostate, calcification can be a problem making it less viable for example and cryotherapy will also not be suitable for everyone.

Your profile does not show details of your prognosis but if you are a candidate for Focal Therapy your cancer is thought to be contained within your prostate and the need for an urgent decision seems unlikely. I would suggest if this is the case you ask your expert for her reasoning assuming she is well versed on Focal Therapy. Otherwise get the opinion of somebody who is an expert on Focal Therapy as not involved Consultants are often prejudiced against it. It may well mean some delay but you would want to feel happy that you have thoroughly explored Focal Therapy before making your treatment decision.

Barry
User
Posted 08 Dec 2023 at 17:07

Hi Champion 65 ,

i was trying to avoid surgery /RT offered by my local hospital ,

 i was referred to be assess for HIFU , which is a no....no for me , but  i was told crytherapy was an option for me ,

sorry i can't be more helpful ..

i would go back and keep asking questions ,

best of luck with your journey

 

User
Posted 08 Dec 2023 at 17:27

It would be useful to know more about your type of cancer. What info do you have about your diagnosis? Is it the commonest form, adenocarcinoma, or a more rare type such as small cell or mucinous? What Gleason score have you been given - I think you have already posted that it is a G7 but is that a (3+4) or a (4+3)? How many positive cores were there in your biopsy results?

Sometimes, focal therapy isn't suitable because the tumours are not next to each other, or because the tumour is too close to the urethra or bowel wall. But I agree with Barry and your urologist; speak to the focal therapy team so that you know one way or the other.

It also has to be said that focal therapy isn't always a permanent solution - they are aiming just to treat the one or two main areas of cancer and so there is a significant chance of recurrence / need to repeat the focal treatment or have RP / RT in the future

Edited by member 08 Dec 2023 at 17:39  | Reason: Not specified

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

 
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