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Enzalutamide and Biclutamide

User
Posted 07 Sep 2021 at 20:45

I was diagnosed pre-covid, but sadly Covid made it into hospital before me so my surgeon put me on Biclutamide daily, with another tablet on a Saturday to take some of the side effects down. I hated it. Between them, the two drugs made my life a misery. I was waking up in the morning to work from home and finding myself asleep by ten a.m. and then all afternoon from two p.m.. Saturdays were a wipe out.

I rang the hospital in a lucid moment and was taken off the two drugs and this was replaced by Enzalutamide. I got my Saturdays back and I could work longer but truth be told I often had no idea of what I was doing, my memory slowly fading as though I had Dementia. (Dementia killed my father, I was his nurse, it was easy to see the same patterns occurring.) So after a few weeks of that and becoming more and more Zombie like, my GP spoke to the surgeon and I was put on injections. I got my life back.

After my operation the surgeon who had performed the operation wanted to put me back on to Biclutamide, there was a row and I refused, explaining that I had already been down that road and there was no way I would be doing that awful sleep pattern agaiun.  He passed me on to the Oncologist who wanted to put me on to Enzalutamide, again I refused and thids time there was a blazing row.  I asked for a second opinuon and I was passed to another Oncologist, who was methodical, took me through my results, showed me my scans and basically talked to me like I was a human instead of a piece of meat. Because he looked at my treatment history he said there was no need for either tablet and I could go straight on to the injection.

Although my PSA came down it wasn't as fast as he wanted and he talked me through the effects of Enzalutamide I had experienced and finally I relented. I would try it again in conjunction with the injection.

It took less than two weeks before my arms were covered in eczema, my neck was red, the hot flushes were horrendous and slowly my memory was fading. He retired and I was referred back to the first oncologist, all it took was one appointment. I showed him my arms and he was horrified. Then as he was making notes I was chattering away about it all when I suddenly stopped talking. There was silence and he looked at me. I said 'I am really sorry what was I talking about, I cannot remember, I have lost the thread. This happens a lot since I went back on the tablets.' I was taken off them immediately.

Within a week my arms had almost come back to normal, there was skin not eczema, my neck had cleared completely. My memory hasn't quite completed but I can hold conversations often without having to stop. Especially if I am relaxed. I have a life that allows me to travel about and meet people. I watch what I drink and eat but never again will I have to take those awful drugs.

I tell this story because I was being bullied into a treatment that was destructive and would have cost me my job. I tell this story because somewhere out there is another me who is suffering on either Biclutamide or Enzalutamide and thinking it is natural, it is not. You do not have to suffer. These tablets may be good at curbuing cancer but at what cost?

User
Posted 08 Sep 2021 at 14:20

Thank you GreenTea, obviously everyone is different and for most people the effects are less severe. You are right that we can be treated like slabs of meat, which personally I don't have a problem with. I look at it from the medics point of view, they have hundreds of people to deal with and some are dying, probably best not to get too emotionally involved. That doesn't excuse them being rude or ignoring your wishes though.

If you look at Chris J's thread you will see a man who has steered his own path through this, I think his medics have been more sympathetic than yours. You do have to accept that if you have prostate cancer and the treatment is intolerable it will probably end up in death, but you may get a few more comfortable years, rather than a lot of miserable years.

I tend to take a view that if you get to 85 you have done quite well in life, and if PCa doesn't kill you something else will fairly soon, or you will get dementia and have a rubbish life. 

If you get to 75 you have done OK in life, it is a shame that you might not get another ten years but so be it.

If you are less than 70, you did get dealt a bad hand, but so be it. In some countries male life expectancy is less than 50 they don't even get a chance to die of prostate cancer.

I see from your profile you are in your 60s so bad turn of the cards I'm afraid.

(All the above ages will be revised up by five years as I get closer to them.)

Dave

User
Posted 09 Sep 2021 at 09:11
Greetings Dave,

Thank you for the last line (revised up) it made me laugh.

My tale is intended to warn of the serious side effects I experienced with these two drugs, so that those who are experiencing the same side effects are aware they can get rid of them.

I accept that getting rid of them comes with a shorter life expectancy, but once the prostate is gone the body needs to compensate for it somehow, including producing testosterone by a different path. And the cancer needs to find something else to feed on, which it will eventually. Its a bleak outlook but it can be a good outlook. I am more focussed now.

If one person goes back to their doctor and says I have these side effects or just one of them, then my post will not have been in vain.

Cheers

Green Tea

User
Posted 09 Sep 2021 at 09:37
Removing the prostate doesn't affect testosterone production
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 09 Sep 2021 at 10:08

Hi GreenTea, Yes your post was very useful. It may be an unusual side effect, but it may be more common than we think even if not quite so severe. So your post will help people on here understand what is happening to them if they get anything similar. More importantly it will help other people have the courage to challenge their medics if things aren't working properly. 

Dave

User
Posted 12 Sep 2021 at 17:42
Hi Green tea,

Bad luck about Enzalutimide and its effects on you. I can only put in my own pennyworth of testimony to the contrary.

I have been taking it since March this year together with Decapeptyl injections. At first I hardly noticed any effect (other than my PSA dropping from 321 to below 0.1). Then I became aware of minor joint pain, reduction in stamina and transient memory effects (forgetting the names of familiar places or people when challenged). But then I am 80 years and used to experience all those effects to a lesser degree before treatment.

Dave may consider my life to be of no further importance, but I wonder whether my experience may have some relevance. My immune system is probably much weaker than Green Tea's due only to our age difference. Could this explain the violent reaction he had to Enzalutimide?

JamesW

User
Posted 12 Sep 2021 at 17:56

I’m guessing the “other tablet” that you were prescribed alongside bicalutimide would have been tamoxifen. This is frequently prescribed to suppress the common side-effect of breast growth.

Just to give another input to people, I was on 150mg/day bicalutimide as a primary HT for 18 months, and found it entirely bearable. When I was first prescribed it, I did experience “woolly thinking”, but this cleared up after a month or two. I had the expected loss of libido, some weight gain, and it made me sleep like a log, but I regarded that as a benefit rather than a problem. I think the extreme reaction you had to it is highly unusual. After I’d been on it for a year, I did start to experience some breast growth despite the tamoxifen, been two sessions of breast-bud RT stopped it in its tracks.

Best wishes,

Chris

Edited by member 12 Sep 2021 at 18:02  | Reason: Not specified

 
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