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Hello I'm new and looking for advice/help

User
Posted 18 Nov 2021 at 21:41

Hello, my name is Paul, and I was wondering if anybody has any good advice regarding foods/diets and my diagnosis. I have been reading alot about diet etc so thought I'd ask here.

I am a 38 year old ex Royal Marine, I have a lovely supporting wife and 2 loving children ages 15 (boy) and (girl 9)

My story so far...

I had been struggling with back pain since October 2020 after I bent down to pick up after my dog my lower back spasmed. I went bowling 28th December 2020 and my back spasmed again, later that night I woke in the early hours in pain and sneezed, I felt something in my lower back and the pain was excruciating with pins and needles going down my legs and electric shocks along my lower back. I did not go to hospital due to covid overwhelming the hospitals at the time. I managed to crawl into bed a few hours later. I talked to my GP the next day over the phone who prescribed naproxen. I went to see a chiropractor in Jan 2021 who diagnosed me with a bulged disc at L4/L5 i received treatment for 2 and half months. My back flared up again so my GP ordered an MRI scan. I went for the MRI on 18th Mar 2021, after I came home I was called back to hospital within an hour of leaving. They found a collapsed and fractured L1 vertebrae which was compressing on my nerves and very close to my spinal cord, I lay flat and was not allowed to move. They also found a tumour in the L1 vertebrae and said this will be the secondary tumour. I had an operation to relive the nerve compression, rebuild the L1 using titanium rods and screws, fill with bone cement and take a biopsy.. I then had a prostate biopsy as my psa was 35. Both results came back, I have stage 4 metastatic prostate cancer Gleason 9. A small tumour has now been found on my pelvis. I was started on Biculatamide hormone tablets with an injection halfway through and now every 6 months. I had 10 sessions of radio therapy on my L1 vertebrae before starting on Enzulatimide, my PSA has been >0.2 since Aug 2021. I do have the normal side effects everyone reports but am managing. I am also having Zoledronic acid bone strengthening drug every 4 weeks which has brought some bad bone pain. I have had 2 sessions of RT to my chest to reduce the pain caused by the breast tissue brought on by the HT and i have also had 4 weeks of RT to the prostate.. I am now just on enzulatimide, 6 monthly hormone injections and zoledronic acid infusions once a month. My next appointment with consultant is in December so see what happens next.

Thanks.

"38 year old diagnosed in March 2021 with stage 4 metastatic PC. My story so far is on my profile"

User
Posted 20 Nov 2021 at 11:55

Hi Paul,

We have significantly changed our diet. Basically removed all dairy and red meat (and just have the odd treat days) I cook everything from scratch so know exactly what I’m using and try to use organic products wherever possible. 
My OH had a heavily based dairy diet previously. Whether it will make a difference I don’t know, but I think you feel you have to do what you can to try and make a difference. If nothing else he feels so much better in himself after losing the bit of excess weight that he had. Best of luck for your appointment this month 👍🏽

User
Posted 20 Nov 2021 at 13:02

There is evidence that diets high in Polyphenol-rich foods slows the progression of prostate cancer (and some other similar cancers, such as breast). This doesn't mean you have to give anything up, but ensuring you have plenty of brassica vegetables (broccoli, sprouts, etc) may help.

Pomi-T is a supplement made from Polyphenol-rich foods, if you think you'll struggle to add them to your diet.

Be careful about cutting out dairy if you are on hormone therapy, as you may increase the already high chance of osteoporosis through calcium loss. You should probably also consider taking vitamin D3 and K2 to help avoid osteoporosis, and calcium (particularly if you did give up diary), but you need exercise which stresses bones too for these to work. Calcium is a difficult one, because while essential to maintain bone health (even more so on hormone therapy), there is some thought that it might not be good for prostates. (The vitamin D3 and K2 may help make sure it goes mainly to bones.) Calcium is not compatible with some other health conditions and some bone mets, so check with your GP and oncologist first.

Personally, I took Pomi-T, calcium in the form of AdCal-D3, extra vitamin D3 and K2 during treatment. In hindsight, I would have dropped the vitamin D3 during radiotherapy sessions. I have stopped the calcium now that my testosterone has returned. I have no evidence any of this has done me any good though.

Edited by member 20 Nov 2021 at 13:10  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 20 Nov 2021 at 13:45

Although tomatoes and other red vegetables contain lycopene, it's insoluble, so if you eat them raw, it mostly just passes through you as fibre.

In order to absorb lycopene, it needs to be consumed dissolved in oil. This means you have to cook the vegetables in oil and consume the oil to get the benefit of lycopene. In the case of tomatoes, it's concentrated in the skin, so they need to be cooked in oil with the skin on.

So eating a raw tomato or red pepper won't benefit you much in terms of lycopene. Other significant sources of lycopene are tomato soup, tomato ketchup, concentrated tomato puree. A teaspoon of concentrated tomato puree is probably a good source as a supplement.

Soy doesn't contain much calcium, but soy milk is usually fortified with it, so it depends how much they added.

I don't know how dietary calcium interacts with bisphosphonates such as zoledronic acid, or Denosumab, as these change the way osteoclasts and osteoblasts break down and rebuild bone. That would be an interesting question for a bone specialist.

User
Posted 20 Nov 2021 at 13:51

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

Hi Paul,

We have significantly changed our diet. Basically removed all dairy and red meat (and just have the odd treat days) I cook everything from scratch so know exactly what I’m using and try to use organic products wherever possible. 
My OH had a heavily based dairy diet previously. Whether it will make a difference I don’t know, but I think you feel you have to do what you can to try and make a difference. If nothing else he feels so much better in himself after losing the bit of excess weight that he had. Best of luck for your appointment this month 👍🏽

Almost exactly what we did when John was diagnosed but with cooked tomatoes on everything! 12 years on, John isn't very good at sticking to it and cheats with the meat whenever he can (bacon sandwiches are too tempting) but has stuck with the soya milk throughout

 

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 20 Nov 2021 at 18:31
Doesn't really matter- any type of processed tomato is good
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

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User
Posted 20 Nov 2021 at 01:46
There is no research to show that diet makes any difference once a man has prostate cancer, apart from the obvious - a healthy, well balanced diet means you are less likely to pile the weight on and better equipped to cope with treatments.

If you are interested in research on diet that might help to slow any progression, have a look at the Prostate Care Cookbook published by Prostate Cancer Research UK - it is available on Amazon and is very good.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 20 Nov 2021 at 09:38

Thank you for your reply Lyn, since I posted I have read alot of threads about diet and seen you mention the book before so my wife has ordered a copy, thanks. 

"38 year old diagnosed in March 2021 with stage 4 metastatic PC. My story so far is on my profile"

User
Posted 20 Nov 2021 at 11:55

Hi Paul,

We have significantly changed our diet. Basically removed all dairy and red meat (and just have the odd treat days) I cook everything from scratch so know exactly what I’m using and try to use organic products wherever possible. 
My OH had a heavily based dairy diet previously. Whether it will make a difference I don’t know, but I think you feel you have to do what you can to try and make a difference. If nothing else he feels so much better in himself after losing the bit of excess weight that he had. Best of luck for your appointment this month 👍🏽

User
Posted 20 Nov 2021 at 12:25

Thank you for your reply Elaine, there is so much regarding diet it's become a minefield. I have changed my diet quite significantly moving away from red meat and dairy and it has certainly helped with fatigue. I have seen alot about the keto diet and intermittent fasting and how it supposedly helps weaken cancer cells but also seen alot of conflicting information on it aswell. Think I'll stick to my healthy diet with treats in moderation. Thank you 

"38 year old diagnosed in March 2021 with stage 4 metastatic PC. My story so far is on my profile"

User
Posted 20 Nov 2021 at 13:02

There is evidence that diets high in Polyphenol-rich foods slows the progression of prostate cancer (and some other similar cancers, such as breast). This doesn't mean you have to give anything up, but ensuring you have plenty of brassica vegetables (broccoli, sprouts, etc) may help.

Pomi-T is a supplement made from Polyphenol-rich foods, if you think you'll struggle to add them to your diet.

Be careful about cutting out dairy if you are on hormone therapy, as you may increase the already high chance of osteoporosis through calcium loss. You should probably also consider taking vitamin D3 and K2 to help avoid osteoporosis, and calcium (particularly if you did give up diary), but you need exercise which stresses bones too for these to work. Calcium is a difficult one, because while essential to maintain bone health (even more so on hormone therapy), there is some thought that it might not be good for prostates. (The vitamin D3 and K2 may help make sure it goes mainly to bones.) Calcium is not compatible with some other health conditions and some bone mets, so check with your GP and oncologist first.

Personally, I took Pomi-T, calcium in the form of AdCal-D3, extra vitamin D3 and K2 during treatment. In hindsight, I would have dropped the vitamin D3 during radiotherapy sessions. I have stopped the calcium now that my testosterone has returned. I have no evidence any of this has done me any good though.

Edited by member 20 Nov 2021 at 13:10  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 20 Nov 2021 at 13:30

Thank you for your help Andy, I take Adval D3 every day as it is prescribed to me as I have zoledronic acid bone strengthening infusions once a month. I do get calcium from soy milk and diet aswell. I eat alot of tomatoes and watermelon for the lycopene but will look into pomi-t, thank you 

"38 year old diagnosed in March 2021 with stage 4 metastatic PC. My story so far is on my profile"

User
Posted 20 Nov 2021 at 13:45

Although tomatoes and other red vegetables contain lycopene, it's insoluble, so if you eat them raw, it mostly just passes through you as fibre.

In order to absorb lycopene, it needs to be consumed dissolved in oil. This means you have to cook the vegetables in oil and consume the oil to get the benefit of lycopene. In the case of tomatoes, it's concentrated in the skin, so they need to be cooked in oil with the skin on.

So eating a raw tomato or red pepper won't benefit you much in terms of lycopene. Other significant sources of lycopene are tomato soup, tomato ketchup, concentrated tomato puree. A teaspoon of concentrated tomato puree is probably a good source as a supplement.

Soy doesn't contain much calcium, but soy milk is usually fortified with it, so it depends how much they added.

I don't know how dietary calcium interacts with bisphosphonates such as zoledronic acid, or Denosumab, as these change the way osteoclasts and osteoblasts break down and rebuild bone. That would be an interesting question for a bone specialist.

User
Posted 20 Nov 2021 at 13:51

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

Hi Paul,

We have significantly changed our diet. Basically removed all dairy and red meat (and just have the odd treat days) I cook everything from scratch so know exactly what I’m using and try to use organic products wherever possible. 
My OH had a heavily based dairy diet previously. Whether it will make a difference I don’t know, but I think you feel you have to do what you can to try and make a difference. If nothing else he feels so much better in himself after losing the bit of excess weight that he had. Best of luck for your appointment this month 👍🏽

Almost exactly what we did when John was diagnosed but with cooked tomatoes on everything! 12 years on, John isn't very good at sticking to it and cheats with the meat whenever he can (bacon sandwiches are too tempting) but has stuck with the soya milk throughout

 

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 20 Nov 2021 at 14:15

Very interesting about the tomato skin thank you John. I blend 1 tin of chopped tomatoes, a spoonful of tumeric and ginger, pumpkin and chia seeds and add extra virgin olive oil and black pepper. I split this and is 2 portions. Is that sufficient oil with chopped tinned tomatoes or would I need to heat it up ?

"38 year old diagnosed in March 2021 with stage 4 metastatic PC. My story so far is on my profile"

User
Posted 20 Nov 2021 at 14:18

I just want to let people know I'm unable to reply to messages as I am blocked from doing so as I am new to the site. Thank you though, I appreciate it 👍

"38 year old diagnosed in March 2021 with stage 4 metastatic PC. My story so far is on my profile"

User
Posted 20 Nov 2021 at 16:19

Yes Lyn, we have the cooked tomatoes every day too, and homemade tomato soup, keep expecting us to turn red anytime 😂 Rob likes to try and cheat sometimes too…but I guess that’s allowed. 
It is definitely a minefield when it comes to diet and cancer. I’m pretty sure we wouldn’t eat anything if we looked into it too much.

User
Posted 20 Nov 2021 at 17:25

Are cold tinned tomatoes mixed with olive oil sufficient or is it better to have cooked whole/timned tomatoes ?

"38 year old diagnosed in March 2021 with stage 4 metastatic PC. My story so far is on my profile"

User
Posted 20 Nov 2021 at 18:31
Doesn't really matter- any type of processed tomato is good
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

 
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