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(Another) T2 to T3

User
Posted 03 Mar 2022 at 16:09

Hi folks,


I have started a new thread to avoid distracting from Nigel's ( GetThroughThis) similar thread.


My issue and question is slightly different.  Like him, my original diagnosis ( May 2020) was T2c N0 M0. The treatment plan was to be RT, but after a lot of faffing about this was abandoned as the team couldn't get a clear enough sight of the goal ( a loop of bowel was consistently in the way). Their best suggestion was a reduced dose EBRT, to avoid too much collateral damage, but obviously with less possibility of a curative solution. So plan B was to switch to RP.


At that point I thought a second opinion might be a good idea. The MDT at the ( private ) second opinion clinic have taken a slightly different view of my MRI pictures (as of Dec 2021). To Quote: 'there was loss of tissue planes between the base of the prostate and the rectum, and between the right seminal vesicle and the rectum; and it looked likely that there was bilateral seminal vesicle invasion'.


Although definitions vary slightly, that seems to me to be a T3B staging.  If that's  right, then I think it changes the game somewhat: the standard wisdom seems to be that RP is not the preferred primary treatment in those circumstances. So I seem to be in the situation that neither RT nor RP are good curative options.


Both the local and private surgeons are happy to operate on a T3B, though they rightly point out that additional treatment is likely to be needed. That additional treatment would normally be....RP. Catch 22!


I can see some reasons why an RP op might still be useful:


 - the position might not be as bad as the MRI interpretation suggests ( say, 20% probability?, though it seems unlikely to come back down to a nicely contained T2C));


- I would have a much clearer picture of what was going on down there, and 


- there would at least be a reduction in tumour mass.


It is hard however to know what weight to place on these benefits against the certainty of an invasive procedure, and the probability of a second set of effects from whatever adjuvant treatment is proposed. Putting it at its crudest, if a curative option is not really on the table, am I better off considering going straight to a long term containment strategy?


What started out as a relatively straightforward exercise has become a bit more complicated, and although I am nearly 2 years into this ( with HT currently holding the fort), I don't yet have a proper game plan. Has anyone had experience of navigating these waters? 

User
Posted 03 Mar 2022 at 19:51

Hi Olefogey,


I'm not sure I can make the waters much clearer but I had a T3b diagnosis and opted for RP. The urologist felt with open surgery he might get it all out. That remains to be seen as I have not yet had the histology back. So far he has managed to achieve better nerve sparing than anticipated (he didn't think he would mange it on the right). I don't think any surgeon is going say they can get a curative RP on a T3b but they might give you a better idea of your prospects based on your individual case. I suppose if you are going to gamble it's a good ide to know the odds. I've taken a gamble but for me I don't see it as a disaster if it doesn't pay off, it just means I didn't make the right choice and I have to endure the salvage/adjunct RT. 


Chris

User
Posted 03 Mar 2022 at 20:23

Hi Chris, 


 thanks for this. I think we might have a surgeon in common!


Best of luck with your results....

User
Posted 03 Mar 2022 at 21:05
The trouble is, you don't know how long term the containment plan would be as its effectiveness is finite - it could be 2 years or it could be 15 years before you become castrate-resistant. As you have already been on HT for a while, that brings the day it fails nearer. Tough call but I think that if you were my dad or brother, I would be encouraging you to go for surgery for all the reasons you have stated - it may not be as close to the rectum as it seems, there is an ever-increasing view that removing the bulk slows down progression and you would be going into surgery without any unrealistic expectations so less likely to be impacted by great distress if there is a recurrence later.
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 03 Mar 2022 at 21:55

Hi Lyn,


 many thanks. As you say, I have already used up a chunk of the lifespan of HT effectiveness, and that was at the back of my mind: it would make sense to keep some in reserve for down the line.  I am likely to need it!

 
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