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Regaining fitness during Decapeptyl hormone therapy

User
Posted 13 May 2022 at 06:04

I have stage 3 prostate cancer that has been treated with radical volumetric arc radiotherapy and a projected three year course of Decapeptyl (one injection every three months). I’ve just had injection No 3. 


Prior to diagnosis and treatment I was fit and active as a climber, fell-walker and kayaker.  


I now find that I’m losing muscle mass and fitness especially in my upper body. I imagine this is due to the HT and the lack of testosterone in my system. 

Has anyone been through this and found a way to regain pre-treatment fitness. I train and have a good diet but the fitness doesn’t seem to be coming back.


Do I just need to work harder or are there other tips I can follow?

User
Posted 13 May 2022 at 11:10

Hi Frank,


Have had the same struggles.  I was superfit until I started the ADT (Decapeptyl and enza).   Strength has been a big problem.  I have tried to maintain as much of it as possible by doing weights in the gym but my body shape and muscle to fat ratio has changed.   I have always hovered around 80Kg (6 ft tall) prior to treatment and was bench pressing 100Kg.   Now I bench press 60Kg and I am around 94Kg in weight nearly 2 years into the treatment.   My onco keeps on reassuring me that it is all related to the testosterone being almost 0.   My cardiovascular exercises have taken a big hit, these days I just do brisk walks but get tired after about 25 minutes.  I am hoping (subject to PSA remaining low) that things will start improving when I come off the hormone therapy in September.   Although I am aware that it can take quite some time for the testosterone levels to come back.  It is one of the toughest things of this treatment, going from being really fit to barely being able to do 50% of what I could before.    All the advice I have read and seen points to keep exercising, especially weights to keep the side effects of ADT to a minimum.


Jay

User
Posted 15 May 2022 at 02:11

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
I’m just now getting back to pre-RT levels of exercise but it’s hard work and as I’ve said before you gain a bit of fitness and lose it straight away again if you don’t keep at it. My advice would be to get as fit as you can pre-RT and to not let up on the activity during the RT and post-RT phases. I did and I regret that now (I think I was just feeling sorry for myself!).


Finding you aren't able to do as much as you could before RT/HT has a big emotional side to it. I admit to feeling quite upset when I was out on a ride where my speed and endurance just felt pathetic. On top of that there's the rapid loss of fitness if you stop exercising, which both you and I have noticed Frank, though this is the first time I've seen it mentioned anywhere. Unfortunately the overall significant drop in strength/fitness is inevitable but the slide does stop at some point, so it's important to stay strong and establish some sort of new base fitness level which you can cling on to and maybe build from in a modest sort of way. The other point you make Frank, that it's hard work, is also a big one. It's harder work both physically and mentally minus testosterone and that takes some getting used to.


Les's nordic walking sounds like a great idea. Sustained efforts are good to reduce fat and while walking fast is tough, any changes in strength due to ADT seem less noticeable with walking. Of course if you haven't walked before and you take it up as a new exercise, you won't feel your performance has fallen away 😀 which might seem a bit obvious but it's good if you can actually enjoy exercise rather than feel dragged down by it.


 


Jules

User
Posted 13 May 2022 at 20:41

You could try Creatine ( easily available on line), which has been recommended to me by the fitness advisor on my Genesis programme. But generally there's no substitute to grinding out the exercise, especially resistance- based work.


 

User
Posted 14 May 2022 at 03:37

I agree with all the "aboves". My own measurable experience was that my cycling power dropped by some 20% plus my ability with weights also fell.


It's both harder to gain any fitness and easier to lose it in a short space of time. The body seems to have the rather perverse idea that it should be putting on fat and even stealing muscle to convert to fat so that you will be ready for your upcoming pregnancy, groan. Best practice is to exercise and go to the gym frequently, maybe even extend the type of activities you do to include some variety with an activity you didn't participate in before.


Also, if you're over 60, a protein supplement is important. Carbs. and sugars tend to assimilate as fat while protein has a better chance of becoming muscle. I've got some links on this in my bio. and it can help a lot. Initially I had problems with fatigue after say half an hour of cycling but protein helped with that. 


Hard to gain in this situation but possible to stop losses at a certain level, hopefully until the testosterone comes back.


 


Jules

User
Posted 14 May 2022 at 20:04

Hi Les 


I started my 20 rounds of RT after 4 months of HT. By then I’d established a routine of cycling, walking and some gym work. I was definitely getting fitter despite the hot flushes and sleeplessness. I found The RT easy at first but as the weeks rolled I definitely got more tired and lost enthusiasm for getting out on my bike.


After it was over I carried on getting more tired for several weeks and lost a lot of sleep due to bladder and bowel issues (these cleared up over night about 4 weeks post therapy). Tamsulosin and solifenacin were both essential in this. I’m just now getting back to pre-RT levels of exercise but it’s hard work and as I’ve said before you gain a bit of fitness and lose it straight away again if you don’t keep at it. 


My advice would be to get as fit as you can pre-RT and to not let up on the activity during the RT and post-RT phases. I did and I regret that now (I think I was just feeling sorry for myself!). 
I can’t speak with any authority to the protein in your diet but I imagine getting into that now pre-RT and dropping some of the carbs would be good way to go. 


Good luck


Frank 

User
Posted 13 May 2022 at 06:04

I have stage 3 prostate cancer that has been treated with radical volumetric arc radiotherapy and a projected three year course of Decapeptyl (one injection every three months). I’ve just had injection No 3. 


Prior to diagnosis and treatment I was fit and active as a climber, fell-walker and kayaker.  


I now find that I’m losing muscle mass and fitness especially in my upper body. I imagine this is due to the HT and the lack of testosterone in my system. 

Has anyone been through this and found a way to regain pre-treatment fitness. I train and have a good diet but the fitness doesn’t seem to be coming back.


Do I just need to work harder or are there other tips I can follow?

User
Posted 15 May 2022 at 06:13
Thank you Frank & Jules.. Nordic Walking is something I took up pre pandemic as I got bored with gym workouts

Thank you so much for your coments/advice. So far so good. I'm due to have my RT in July. I know things are going to get tougher before they get better. I had almost come to think was going to have to cut out almost all my walking and have to rest a or more. I'm now determine to hold on, as long as por, to my level of fitness. As you say Jules loss of fitness also has a emotional toll which is much greater as a result of HT.

Thank you both. I'll try and post how I get on.
Les
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User
Posted 13 May 2022 at 11:10

Hi Frank,


Have had the same struggles.  I was superfit until I started the ADT (Decapeptyl and enza).   Strength has been a big problem.  I have tried to maintain as much of it as possible by doing weights in the gym but my body shape and muscle to fat ratio has changed.   I have always hovered around 80Kg (6 ft tall) prior to treatment and was bench pressing 100Kg.   Now I bench press 60Kg and I am around 94Kg in weight nearly 2 years into the treatment.   My onco keeps on reassuring me that it is all related to the testosterone being almost 0.   My cardiovascular exercises have taken a big hit, these days I just do brisk walks but get tired after about 25 minutes.  I am hoping (subject to PSA remaining low) that things will start improving when I come off the hormone therapy in September.   Although I am aware that it can take quite some time for the testosterone levels to come back.  It is one of the toughest things of this treatment, going from being really fit to barely being able to do 50% of what I could before.    All the advice I have read and seen points to keep exercising, especially weights to keep the side effects of ADT to a minimum.


Jay

User
Posted 13 May 2022 at 20:41

You could try Creatine ( easily available on line), which has been recommended to me by the fitness advisor on my Genesis programme. But generally there's no substitute to grinding out the exercise, especially resistance- based work.


 

User
Posted 14 May 2022 at 03:37

I agree with all the "aboves". My own measurable experience was that my cycling power dropped by some 20% plus my ability with weights also fell.


It's both harder to gain any fitness and easier to lose it in a short space of time. The body seems to have the rather perverse idea that it should be putting on fat and even stealing muscle to convert to fat so that you will be ready for your upcoming pregnancy, groan. Best practice is to exercise and go to the gym frequently, maybe even extend the type of activities you do to include some variety with an activity you didn't participate in before.


Also, if you're over 60, a protein supplement is important. Carbs. and sugars tend to assimilate as fat while protein has a better chance of becoming muscle. I've got some links on this in my bio. and it can help a lot. Initially I had problems with fatigue after say half an hour of cycling but protein helped with that. 


Hard to gain in this situation but possible to stop losses at a certain level, hopefully until the testosterone comes back.


 


Jules

User
Posted 14 May 2022 at 08:25

That’s all very interesting - many thanks for the advice and tips. 


I’ve certainly lost 25-35% of my fitness and stamina. Most troubling is that even after a short lay off I lose a lot of the gains I’ve made. I guess we’re going up a down escalator with this.   


Some  thoughts….


JayKay, you say your “Onco keeps reassuring you”. I’ve never met mine. I had one phone call with him prior to RT and that was it. It feels I’m in my own with this so the replies from you guys are very helpful. 


Microcolei - I certainly look into the protein led diet. Shame as I do like a nice cake!


Jim234 - good luck Jim. Prostatectomy wasn’t an option for me it was RT and HT or nothing so I never had to consider options. Make sure you get a good Da Vinci surgeon. 


I’ve realised that setting goals is going to be super important for me. I’ll have to get to work in the gym too ( and stop eating cake)


thanks all


Frank. 

User
Posted 14 May 2022 at 10:30

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
Shame as I do like a nice cake!


😀 I don't think you need to go nuts but protein shakes actually decrease your appetite for a period of time and can be timed carefully for best effect.


Jules

User
Posted 14 May 2022 at 12:08
Sorry Frank for taking advantage of your conversation but it's my current concern ! Thanks for posting this discussion. I'm just over 2 months into HT and so far side effects not too bad mainly hot flushes/night sweats, slight increase in stomach fat and slight loss of super body strength. I haven't had the exhaustion many mention. My main exercise is Nordic Walking on average 6 miles a day recently walked 150k over 6 days in Portugal without any problems. I'm 70 fit have a good diet, no meat but do eat fish. I cur r walk most days and have deliberately increased length of walks in an attempt to fight off HT exhaustion (and it seems to be working so far) I worried that with 4 weeks (20 doses of RT) my activity will decline or even stop! My question is should I start including the protein supplement now, or wait till after RT?

Les
User
Posted 14 May 2022 at 20:04

Hi Les 


I started my 20 rounds of RT after 4 months of HT. By then I’d established a routine of cycling, walking and some gym work. I was definitely getting fitter despite the hot flushes and sleeplessness. I found The RT easy at first but as the weeks rolled I definitely got more tired and lost enthusiasm for getting out on my bike.


After it was over I carried on getting more tired for several weeks and lost a lot of sleep due to bladder and bowel issues (these cleared up over night about 4 weeks post therapy). Tamsulosin and solifenacin were both essential in this. I’m just now getting back to pre-RT levels of exercise but it’s hard work and as I’ve said before you gain a bit of fitness and lose it straight away again if you don’t keep at it. 


My advice would be to get as fit as you can pre-RT and to not let up on the activity during the RT and post-RT phases. I did and I regret that now (I think I was just feeling sorry for myself!). 
I can’t speak with any authority to the protein in your diet but I imagine getting into that now pre-RT and dropping some of the carbs would be good way to go. 


Good luck


Frank 

User
Posted 15 May 2022 at 02:11

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
I’m just now getting back to pre-RT levels of exercise but it’s hard work and as I’ve said before you gain a bit of fitness and lose it straight away again if you don’t keep at it. My advice would be to get as fit as you can pre-RT and to not let up on the activity during the RT and post-RT phases. I did and I regret that now (I think I was just feeling sorry for myself!).


Finding you aren't able to do as much as you could before RT/HT has a big emotional side to it. I admit to feeling quite upset when I was out on a ride where my speed and endurance just felt pathetic. On top of that there's the rapid loss of fitness if you stop exercising, which both you and I have noticed Frank, though this is the first time I've seen it mentioned anywhere. Unfortunately the overall significant drop in strength/fitness is inevitable but the slide does stop at some point, so it's important to stay strong and establish some sort of new base fitness level which you can cling on to and maybe build from in a modest sort of way. The other point you make Frank, that it's hard work, is also a big one. It's harder work both physically and mentally minus testosterone and that takes some getting used to.


Les's nordic walking sounds like a great idea. Sustained efforts are good to reduce fat and while walking fast is tough, any changes in strength due to ADT seem less noticeable with walking. Of course if you haven't walked before and you take it up as a new exercise, you won't feel your performance has fallen away 😀 which might seem a bit obvious but it's good if you can actually enjoy exercise rather than feel dragged down by it.


 


Jules

User
Posted 15 May 2022 at 06:13
Thank you Frank & Jules.. Nordic Walking is something I took up pre pandemic as I got bored with gym workouts

Thank you so much for your coments/advice. So far so good. I'm due to have my RT in July. I know things are going to get tougher before they get better. I had almost come to think was going to have to cut out almost all my walking and have to rest a or more. I'm now determine to hold on, as long as por, to my level of fitness. As you say Jules loss of fitness also has a emotional toll which is much greater as a result of HT.

Thank you both. I'll try and post how I get on.
Les
 
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