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Surgery Options

User
Posted 19 May 2022 at 22:58

Hi,  I recently diagnosed, have localised Gleeson 3+4   PSA 5.4  slim Fit and exercises daily.

Looking into either having Robotic Prostatectomy or Open surgery,  I am obviously  seeking a quality procedure  and  to which has the least side effects , regarding Incontinence and Erectile dysfunction.

Experienced  high quality Surgeons  who carry out Open surgery is  less common  in current times, possibly due to the cost involved,  as a  longer stay is required at hospital . The  Robotic method these days  seems to be  the way forward. The baus.org.uk  site is good but  appears to be not up to date.

I would welcome any comments and experience to both methods.

Thank you

 

User
Posted 19 May 2022 at 23:55

Hello,

Sorry to hear of your diagnosis.

My husband had Robotic assisted surgery in Dec 21. Everyone is different but he has recovered really well. He didn’t lift anything for 3 months after and still took it fairly easy and everything healed well within that time. He’s 74 now so it was expected that he may have problems with continence but he’s completely dry 5 months on and has been for some time. He ended up with the catheter in for a total of 4 weeks but didn’t cause him too many problems and we were still able to get out and about. ED is still an issue although he had 50% nerves spared. He had 6 months of HT so not much testosterone at the mo so that really doesn’t help. He also started to get fast heartbeat so we decided against using the sildenafil that was prescribed.

We ended up paying private for the surgery in the end because of wait times for our elected surgeon. (Could get NHS referral though) We had to travel to London for the op aswell (we live in Manchester). Would do it all again, no regrets.

This is obviously just our experience, and I’m sure others with come on to let you know theirs.

best of luck 

User
Posted 20 May 2022 at 00:40
Don't forget surgeons doing robotic surgery have previously started with the 'open' version so a surgeon regularly doing open is likely to do get a better result than one who it less experienced using the robot. Also, there are sometimes reasons why the 'open' version is more suitable for individuals. Then when a hospital has the Da Vinci Robot there can be some pressure to use it. The patient recovers more quickly when the robot is used and there is less scarring. Overall, the long term outcomes of robotic removal is very slightly better than for open, according to comparative studies.
Barry
User
Posted 20 May 2022 at 01:23

My husband had open RP on the recommendation of his urologist who is one of the leading robotic RP surgeons. In his case, open was recommended because he had had previous abdominal surgery (appendectomy), the scarring from which might potentially have impacted on the laparoscopic routes in, and because the surgeon felt that he would be able to get a cleaner, more precise cut to save the nerve bundles. Yes, it was a longer stay in hospital and more weeks off work but not a huge difference in the bigger scheme of things.

Anther reason that open is sometimes preferable - a man with heart problems may not be able to have laparoscopic because you are tipped head down for a few hours which puts a lot of strain on the heart. Also, men who have had mesh repairs (e g. for a hernia) may not be able to have laparoscopic RP.

The last time NHS data was published, open RP still had slightly better outcomes than robotic in terms of continence, erectile function and positive margins but I suspect that in the last 4 or 5 years, robotic surgery will have improved.

Edited by member 20 May 2022 at 01:25  | Reason: Not specified

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 20 May 2022 at 16:06

Hi Paul 

I had open surgery just over 3 weeks ago.  I had the procedure on a Monday afternoon and was discharged the following Saturday.  I ended up in HDU for a night after the surgery due to blood loss and low blood pressure, so I really needed every day in hospital to recover.   My catheter is out about a week and I am incontinent, particularly when I walk, although it is still early days in that regard.  I also have a 4 inch scar down my abdomen which will take a while to heal.

My cancer was localized on every scan (inc PSMA) but was designated high risk due to my high PSA and 100% positive biopsy cores.  Therefore ORP and lymph node dissection was recommended by the MDT.  As it turns out post op histology showed my cancer was contained and all the lymph nodes were negative so I'm waiting for the PSA result in a few weeks with fingers and toes crossed.  

As I said above I had an ORP due to purely medical considerations.  I'm not sure I would willingly chose that option if RRP was offered and suitable as there does not seem to be a significant difference in outcomes.

Take care and good luck with your decision.

User
Posted 20 May 2022 at 16:06

Hi Paul. I had open surgery back in Feb. I was looking to have robotic assisted but my urologist said that for my case (locally advaced T3b) he could get more of it out with open surgery. Being able to feel  the prostate is one advantage over laparoscopic. He said he could achieve nerve sparing on one side but also managed partial sparing on the other side.

The longer stay in hospital is probably neither here nor there when considering the overall recovery time. I had some post op complications but they were really down to the large number of lymph nodes (34) I had removed at the same time rather than the prostatectomy itself.

Whether you opt for open or laproscopic the skill of the surgeon is obviously a factor in the outcome. And also how advanced your cancer is. The big decisions that need to be made a the start of your journey are never easy.

Hope it goes well for you.

Chris

User
Posted 20 May 2022 at 16:36

I had RARP with a T2c G 3+4 pSA 6.3 diagnosis knowing it was going to be 50% nerve sparing. Post op histology showed extra prostatic extension but microscopic negative margins and PSA was undetectable at that time. Upgraded to T3a. 3 years later PSA just detectable and now after five years still barely detectable but up to 0.03. Continance is perfect but have urge and frequency. Had a stricture post op which led to indefinite intermitent self catheterisation.
All not to bad apart from ED having tried all drugs apart from Invicorp25 which i can't get yet in my area.

I knew little about PCa at that time but now knowing what I know now from research and this site think I might have gone for open surgery, although results may have been same anyway.

I would ask how close to the edge it is and your consultants opinion

Good luck which ever way you go

Cheers Bill

Edited by member 20 May 2022 at 17:41  | Reason: Added info

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User
Posted 19 May 2022 at 23:55

Hello,

Sorry to hear of your diagnosis.

My husband had Robotic assisted surgery in Dec 21. Everyone is different but he has recovered really well. He didn’t lift anything for 3 months after and still took it fairly easy and everything healed well within that time. He’s 74 now so it was expected that he may have problems with continence but he’s completely dry 5 months on and has been for some time. He ended up with the catheter in for a total of 4 weeks but didn’t cause him too many problems and we were still able to get out and about. ED is still an issue although he had 50% nerves spared. He had 6 months of HT so not much testosterone at the mo so that really doesn’t help. He also started to get fast heartbeat so we decided against using the sildenafil that was prescribed.

We ended up paying private for the surgery in the end because of wait times for our elected surgeon. (Could get NHS referral though) We had to travel to London for the op aswell (we live in Manchester). Would do it all again, no regrets.

This is obviously just our experience, and I’m sure others with come on to let you know theirs.

best of luck 

User
Posted 20 May 2022 at 00:40
Don't forget surgeons doing robotic surgery have previously started with the 'open' version so a surgeon regularly doing open is likely to do get a better result than one who it less experienced using the robot. Also, there are sometimes reasons why the 'open' version is more suitable for individuals. Then when a hospital has the Da Vinci Robot there can be some pressure to use it. The patient recovers more quickly when the robot is used and there is less scarring. Overall, the long term outcomes of robotic removal is very slightly better than for open, according to comparative studies.
Barry
User
Posted 20 May 2022 at 01:23

My husband had open RP on the recommendation of his urologist who is one of the leading robotic RP surgeons. In his case, open was recommended because he had had previous abdominal surgery (appendectomy), the scarring from which might potentially have impacted on the laparoscopic routes in, and because the surgeon felt that he would be able to get a cleaner, more precise cut to save the nerve bundles. Yes, it was a longer stay in hospital and more weeks off work but not a huge difference in the bigger scheme of things.

Anther reason that open is sometimes preferable - a man with heart problems may not be able to have laparoscopic because you are tipped head down for a few hours which puts a lot of strain on the heart. Also, men who have had mesh repairs (e g. for a hernia) may not be able to have laparoscopic RP.

The last time NHS data was published, open RP still had slightly better outcomes than robotic in terms of continence, erectile function and positive margins but I suspect that in the last 4 or 5 years, robotic surgery will have improved.

Edited by member 20 May 2022 at 01:25  | Reason: Not specified

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 20 May 2022 at 11:15

Hi ,Many thanks for your reply.

How did you source your husbands Open surgery expert?

As mentioned I did not find the "baus.org.uk " site up to date in finding a surgeon.

I do believe surgery is all about quality, despite a longer recovery time and a larger scar.

How is husband doing? 

Kind Regards Paul

User
Posted 20 May 2022 at 16:06

Hi Paul 

I had open surgery just over 3 weeks ago.  I had the procedure on a Monday afternoon and was discharged the following Saturday.  I ended up in HDU for a night after the surgery due to blood loss and low blood pressure, so I really needed every day in hospital to recover.   My catheter is out about a week and I am incontinent, particularly when I walk, although it is still early days in that regard.  I also have a 4 inch scar down my abdomen which will take a while to heal.

My cancer was localized on every scan (inc PSMA) but was designated high risk due to my high PSA and 100% positive biopsy cores.  Therefore ORP and lymph node dissection was recommended by the MDT.  As it turns out post op histology showed my cancer was contained and all the lymph nodes were negative so I'm waiting for the PSA result in a few weeks with fingers and toes crossed.  

As I said above I had an ORP due to purely medical considerations.  I'm not sure I would willingly chose that option if RRP was offered and suitable as there does not seem to be a significant difference in outcomes.

Take care and good luck with your decision.

User
Posted 20 May 2022 at 16:06

Hi Paul. I had open surgery back in Feb. I was looking to have robotic assisted but my urologist said that for my case (locally advaced T3b) he could get more of it out with open surgery. Being able to feel  the prostate is one advantage over laparoscopic. He said he could achieve nerve sparing on one side but also managed partial sparing on the other side.

The longer stay in hospital is probably neither here nor there when considering the overall recovery time. I had some post op complications but they were really down to the large number of lymph nodes (34) I had removed at the same time rather than the prostatectomy itself.

Whether you opt for open or laproscopic the skill of the surgeon is obviously a factor in the outcome. And also how advanced your cancer is. The big decisions that need to be made a the start of your journey are never easy.

Hope it goes well for you.

Chris

User
Posted 20 May 2022 at 16:36

I had RARP with a T2c G 3+4 pSA 6.3 diagnosis knowing it was going to be 50% nerve sparing. Post op histology showed extra prostatic extension but microscopic negative margins and PSA was undetectable at that time. Upgraded to T3a. 3 years later PSA just detectable and now after five years still barely detectable but up to 0.03. Continance is perfect but have urge and frequency. Had a stricture post op which led to indefinite intermitent self catheterisation.
All not to bad apart from ED having tried all drugs apart from Invicorp25 which i can't get yet in my area.

I knew little about PCa at that time but now knowing what I know now from research and this site think I might have gone for open surgery, although results may have been same anyway.

I would ask how close to the edge it is and your consultants opinion

Good luck which ever way you go

Cheers Bill

Edited by member 20 May 2022 at 17:41  | Reason: Added info

 
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