PSA 64 down to 57 maybe due to changes in diet

User

Posted 22 Aug 2022 at 16:16

My husband has just been diagnosed with PC T3a N0M0 Gleason 3 + 4. 24th February PSA 64 after much research I started a few changes to his diet including a tomato soup made with fresh tomatoes, Sundried tomatoes and tomato puree, he started taking a Tumeric supplement 4 months later started on Pomi T. On the 8th August prior to any treatment his PSA has come down to 57 despite the Nurse saying it would go up.

He has now started Hormone Treatment tablets and had an injection today.

Having done quite a lot of research on diet and not just cancer but health in general I feel optimistic that diet can be extremely beneficial.

I would add that I don't want to make his life miserable by you must eat this and not that but I hope by adding a few extra things in it may help.

User

Posted 22 Aug 2022 at 16:16

He has now started Hormone Treatment tablets and had an injection today.

Having done quite a lot of research on diet and not just cancer but health in general I feel optimistic that diet can be extremely beneficial.

I would add that I don't want to make his life miserable by you must eat this and not that but I hope by adding a few extra things in it may help.

User

Posted 23 Aug 2022 at 15:34

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

Lyn its very interesting reading your posts and you have clearly done a lot of research. This was my first time of posting on a forum such as this and I am finding everyone so helpful.

The research on diet is equivocal and sometimes, twisted by people with a particular agenda. Years ago, we had many members here who rigidly followed the Plant diet - no red or muscle meat, no processed meat, no dairy, no eggs, lots of tomatoes, garlic / allium, soya, broccoli & pomegranate. Then a couple of things happened - 1) Jane Plant died of cancer 2) Prostate Cancer Research did some proper research which concluded that diet has no effect on a man once he reaches adulthood but if we changed young boys' diets, fewer would grow up to get prostate cancer; and 3) they did some further research that indicated that the progression of advanced PCa may be slowed by diet. If you are interested, you can buy the Prostate Care cookbook from Amazon (published by the Prostate Cancer Research Foundation) - lots of tasty recipes which are broadly in line with Plant but not so evangelical.

We have a brain tumour gene in the family so diet / environmental behaviour is of particular interest to me. When John was diagnosed, I took all meat, dairy & pre-packaged food out of his diet. After a couple of years, I discovered he was cheating whenever I went away on business so it was pointless continuing. However, he still has soya or oat milk / yoghurt, etc and very little processed food.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

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User

Posted 22 Aug 2022 at 19:07

Hi Janie, I think its fantastic that you are determined to challenge this cancer nonsense in whatever way you can. We are what we eat as they say, I too, have gone a bit tomato daft these last 8 or 9 months and also thrown in Pomi T, L-Arginine, L-Citrulline with pycnogenol supplements. The latter i think is definitely making a difference in my recovery. I am really interested that your husbands diagnosis is exactly the same as mine but with a near 6 fold increase in PSA. Im hoping someone on here can potentially clarify why this can happen?

Wishing you both well,

Much love,

Jamie.

User

Posted 23 Aug 2022 at 00:10

My PSA dropped from 28.6 to 21.1. between diagnosis and treatment. But in my case I made no changes in diet that I am aware of. Correlation is not causation as geeky people like to say. If you like the tomato based diet that's good. I have to say that soup sounds rather nice if you start selling it online count me in.

You've identified that you don't want to make him miserable by being over prescriptive on the diet, and that is good, because we don't know how long we have on this world so enjoy every day as much as possible.

BTW what is the treatment plan for the OH? As he has started HT and he is T3N0M0 In guessing Radiotherapy is the plan with about two years of HT.

James yes it's a good question "how can diagnosis be the same but PSA different by a factor of 6?"

I guess prostate size and the amount of PSA generated by healthy cells can be quite different. So twice the size of prostate with healthy cells twice as active could be a four fold increase in base level PSA, but that would probably make a difference of 0.5 to 2.0, when talking about healthy cells. I guess when we add in cancerous cells we have to consider the prostate size, percent cancer, amount of G4 Vs G3.

So 10% cancer at the edge of prostate would be T3 but so would 90% cancer with some at the edge. Which might cause a 9 fold increase in PSA but both would still be T3.

Dave

User

Posted 23 Aug 2022 at 03:17

There are different types of PCa, some producing more PSA than others. Also, a man may have the same Gleason score and staging as another but one have a far greater amount of cancer which could also produce more PSA. Then even without treatment the PSA of some men increases and decreases, quite appreciably whilst in others it moves only fractionally regardless of tumour size and volume.

We know with some certainty that some things are not 'good' for you with PCa and in general but there is a lack of proven evidence that once a man has PCa dietary changes will lower his PSA . It's just too late at this point. What has been established is that some diets adopted early on can reduce the risk of getting PCa. This has been established by surveying men in certain countries where PCa is less frequent. However, when these men and children move to the West and change to Western diet, the incidence of PCa increases to similar levels of those already on the Western diet.

Barry

User

Posted 23 Aug 2022 at 07:27

PSA cannot be used to predict how much cancer there is or how aggressive it is (unless it is in the thousands). We have had a member with PSA of 3 with high G score & extensive mets and other members with a PSA of 100+ and no apparent mets. High G grades (4 + 5 / 5 +4 / 5+5 ) do not seem to produce more PSA than lower grades. Also, there are at least 27 types of prostate cancer, some of which simply do not produce PSA.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User

Posted 23 Aug 2022 at 08:07

Wow, I genuinely knew none of that. I think I naturally assumed much higher PSA levels indicated it more likely to be on the move. So much to learn!

Thanks Dave, Barry and Lyn (again!)

Edited by member 23 Aug 2022 at 08:14 | Reason: Not specified

User

Posted 23 Aug 2022 at 08:39

I suppose we will never really know if changes to diet are helping but maybe if we believe it enough then why not? We made big changes initially and things have gone well so far. We had many treats along the way and still getting on and enjoying life 👍

User

Posted 23 Aug 2022 at 10:51

Jamie I find it hard to understand the differences in PSA and speaking to the consultant I think they find it difficult as well. As Lyn has said some have very low PSA and its spread and some have a high one and it hasn't. I will certainly continue looking at the diet just incase after treatment it comes back. It seems diet can slow the cancer down.

User

Posted 23 Aug 2022 at 10:57

Thank you Dave for your reply. Interesting to see your PSA dropped like Julians did, I will never know if it was diet or not. Apparently according to my family the tomato soup is yummy believe it or not I have never tried it.

Julian with be having Radiotherapy beginning of January.

User

Posted 23 Aug 2022 at 10:59

Elaine I agree life has got to be enjoyable so I don't want to be too restrictive with the diet, really just a few additions to what he usually has.

User

Posted 23 Aug 2022 at 11:03

Lyn its very interesting reading your posts and you have clearly done a lot of research. This was my first time of posting on a forum such as this and I am finding everyone so helpful.

User

Posted 23 Aug 2022 at 11:07

Thank you for your reply Barry, I have a son who has a mainly fish and vegetarian diet with very little milk, he uses soya milk so it will be interesting to see what happens to him.

User

Posted 23 Aug 2022 at 15:34

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

Lyn its very interesting reading your posts and you have clearly done a lot of research. This was my first time of posting on a forum such as this and I am finding everyone so helpful.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User

Posted 23 Aug 2022 at 15:45

Thank you for that Lyn, I must admit when I was researching the diet it was in the hope that it would slow the Cancer down as the GP thought the cancer would have spread to Julians bones which thankfully it hasn't, well it doesn't show on a Choline Pet scan and bone scan.

User

Posted 01 Feb 2023 at 21:21

Hi , does having a MRI scan tell you if the cancer has grown? I was diagnosed in July 22, hope its not got far by the time I have MRI in July.

User

Posted 01 Feb 2023 at 21:44

hi Janie

a good healthy diet will always make sense for a number of reasons, but I think the experience here is saying it will not effect the PCa.

However if hubby goes onto hormone therapy then a good low carb diet may help minimise the weight gain.

that’s my hope anyway

User

Posted 14 Jun 2023 at 05:51

Just found your post, I'm on active survailance, my psa is now 1.1, I was diagnosed July 2022.

Due mri next month, but if they can't tell by psa if it spreads, the mri scan next month could show it has spread, I'm worried now.

User

Posted 14 Jun 2023 at 16:45

PSA will show if the cancer is becoming more active

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

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