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Lost sex drive and testosterone levels

User
Posted 01 Nov 2022 at 16:46

My first post! - I am 63, diagnosed with prostate cancer 7=(3+4), Stage 2, psa 19, in June of 2022 after 3 previous clear biopsies. I was given the choice of surgery or hormone therapy (ht) + radiotherapy (rt).  After discussions with both consultants, I decided I might be able to cope better with the side effect of ht and rt. I totally respect those who choose surgery.

I had a short course of bicalutamide tablets late August followed by a zoladex injection on 2nd Sept. Therefore, I am 8 weeks into ht with radiotherapy due in November and then a 2nd zoladex injection which lasts another 12 weeks = 6 months of treatment in total.

My main side effect so far is hot flushes. These kicked in about mid Sept and I have them during the day but frequently at night so much so they wake me up. I have tried sage and evening primrose oil capsules but have not noticed any significant difference. They are manageable but annoying!

My main question here is regarding my sex drive, which has fallen off a cliff in recent weeks! I have read a few things which say ‘use it or lose it’ and ‘penile rehab.’ I am not currently in a relationship so I assume they are recommending I should continue to masturbate despite not having the urge? I have not totally given up on meeting someone again so I worry about this being the end of my sex life!

How have similar guys recovered from this treatment?  Does testosterone return as it was? Should I try to remain ‘active’ during my ht/rt treatment? Any advice or experience is very welcome from fellow patients.

My very best wishes to you all and thank you in advance for any comments or advice.

User
Posted 01 Nov 2022 at 18:50

Hi Vin,

I’m sure some of the guys will come on soon and answer some of your questions.

Are you planning on having only 6 months HT in total or will you have more injections in the future?

My husband had 6 months worth of prostap injections which saw his testosterone fall to <0.4, he had his last injection in Nov 21 (3 monthly injection) his testosterone last week was 10 so it has now increased to within normal range. I can really notice the difference with him too, he had no interest in sex at all but that has now changed….he did have RARP in Dec 21 so the desire is now there but it comes with it’s challenges to realise it!

Wishing you well.

 

User
Posted 02 Nov 2022 at 20:08

Good to see people are getting testosterone recovery,but some don't recover. 

User
Posted 07 Nov 2022 at 17:39

Another bump in the road on my journey that is prostate cancer treatment that I will share.

About 9 months after my radiotherapy finished I started having what can be best described as wet dreams but producing only copious amounts of blood. Back to the oncologist who sent me for another MRI to find out what was going on.

The following week the oncologist gave me the bad news that it appeared that my cancer had spread. Not only did I have to pass the news on to my family but I had to turn down a job offer as I would at best be facing an operation or at worst, facing an uncertain future. The oncologist already had a surgeon lined up.

2 weeks later the same oncologist informed me that at the weekly multi discipline meeting it had been determined that my cancer had not spread after all and the change in MRI images was in fact due to an upgrade to the machine which had resulted in higher definition, revealing previously unseen detail.

Obviously relieved but what a dreadful couple of weeks.

User
Posted 01 Nov 2022 at 19:06

You certainly will have lost your sex drive if you’re on HT. That’s exactly what it’s supposed to do. Yes, it generally recovers when HT ends, although it may take a while (a year or so) to do so.

Best wishes,

Chris

 

User
Posted 01 Nov 2022 at 21:43

You should try to get erections regularly if possible, as it will help maintain the tissues of the penis. This is called penile rehabilitation or penile physio. About 20% of guys can still get an erection on HT. Erotica or porn might help if you struggle. You could also ask for 20mg Tadalafil from your GP which might help, and also has other health benefits. A pump is another option. Even if you can get an erection and maintain it for a while, you might not be able to reach orgasm with zero libido. That doesn't matter from the penile physio point of view.

Testosterone should come back but it takes a while for the hormone therapy to wear off. It took about 9 months for me after the last injection wore off, and that was after 22 months on injections. It may be a bit faster after a shorter period. When the Testosterone comes back, it does so quite quickly. It can be useful to have Testosterone added to your PSA tests after you finish the hormone therapy, as it's useful to know what's happening, and it help make more sense of the PSA value which if you still have a prostate is expected to rise when Testosterone recovers.

 

Edited by member 01 Nov 2022 at 21:45  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 01 Nov 2022 at 23:32

Hi Elaine

I am on 6 months of HT in total: 2 zoladex injections - each lasting 12 weeks. RT will be in between the 2 injections, around the end of November.

Thank you for your message and for your encouraging words. It is reassuring to know that there is some hope at the end of the process!

 

User
Posted 02 Nov 2022 at 16:15

Hi Vin59, I had similar treatment to you. Everyone is different, but regarding ADT, I started treatment in Oct 2019, my testosterone level was still below average 2 years later,  and at the last check up was only just at the bottom end of normal 30 months later. Great shout regarding tadalafil, definitely helped me. Good news is that everything seems to be working ok now.

Early days for you yet, but ADT is definitely no bunch of roses. 

Regards,

Will.

 

 

User
Posted 02 Nov 2022 at 22:16

AND.....ask for a DEXA scan - bone density can be affected by RT and can lead to osteoporosis.  I have just done 4 and a half years on calcium tablets and got the results of my scan today which shows very slight thinning of the bones but I no longer need the tablets which is good news.

User
Posted 07 Nov 2022 at 07:11

Hello everyone, this is my first post.

I was diagnosed T3b PSA 70 Gleason 9 (5+4) in 2011 aged 49. 

My treatment was 3 years ADT and radiotherapy, 70Gy to prostate, seminal vesicles and nodes. My oncologist told me that this was the tried and tested method but it would render me impotent.

I started with a month of Casodex tablets followed by Zoladex injections every 3 months for 3 years. The impotence set in quite quickly as my T levels plummeted. Hot flushes? Yep, sweat would pump out of me. Man boobs as well, but at least they gave me something to play with eh? There was a change in my emotional state, I would become upset over things that previously wouldn't have affected me. But the most frightening change was that I began to feel suicidal. This meant that I made sure that I never found myself alone in the house. I would tag along with my wife even if she was going somewhere or to do something that I hated. Anything rather than be left alone at home.

Fast forward to 2018 and my suicidal thoughts were under control and my problems were more confined to the physical. No erections for years had meant that although circumcised, what foreskin that remained was fused to my glans and had to be released under general anesthetic. 

Sexual function began to slowly return as my T levels slowly rose. By 2020 the level was around 10. I started to use Tadalafil to help things along and can now get erections. I have suffered some shortening but would still fall within the "average " range and my testicles have shrunk a great deal. But the upside is that orgasms are more intense now than ever although dry. Sometimes I miss the ejaculation experience though. Also a durex cock ring helps to restore the missing length by stopping the blood flowing out.

Nobody from the health service advised me about the need for penile exercise during my treatment or prescribed any ED drugs. It was as though impotence was a cost of treatment and it was a price to be paid for a cure. That p***** me off.

But 7 or 8 years after my hormone treatment ended I still feel the effects. I still can get emotional and suicidal thoughts are never far away.

My PSA is 0.27 and my T is around 15 now. The rise in T levels have meant almost a second puberty and I have the sexual desire of a teenager although my body's response needs help. But as a one of life's cruel jokes, my wife and I are in our 60s and shall we say our desires are somewhat out of synch. If this carries on, my right arm will have muscles like Popeye.

Everyone's journey is different. Good luck.

 

 

User
Posted 07 Nov 2022 at 11:31
Excellent point Speedster about keeping an eye on the foreskin fusing itself onto the glans penis. No one mentioned this to me and it bloody knackered ( bloody being the operative word) when I had to separate it. Should be told to everyone at the outset when prescribed HT.

Keep regularly checking it now, another lesson learned.

User
Posted 25 Nov 2023 at 16:07

On the huge topic of living with ADT, I just discovered an amazing free resource from a remarkable man who is both a prostate cancer survivor on ADT and a scientist. I met him (Richard Wassersug) this week. Check it out at

www.LifeOnAdt.com

Show Most Thanked Posts
User
Posted 01 Nov 2022 at 18:50

Hi Vin,

I’m sure some of the guys will come on soon and answer some of your questions.

Are you planning on having only 6 months HT in total or will you have more injections in the future?

My husband had 6 months worth of prostap injections which saw his testosterone fall to <0.4, he had his last injection in Nov 21 (3 monthly injection) his testosterone last week was 10 so it has now increased to within normal range. I can really notice the difference with him too, he had no interest in sex at all but that has now changed….he did have RARP in Dec 21 so the desire is now there but it comes with it’s challenges to realise it!

Wishing you well.

 

User
Posted 01 Nov 2022 at 19:06

You certainly will have lost your sex drive if you’re on HT. That’s exactly what it’s supposed to do. Yes, it generally recovers when HT ends, although it may take a while (a year or so) to do so.

Best wishes,

Chris

 

User
Posted 01 Nov 2022 at 21:43

You should try to get erections regularly if possible, as it will help maintain the tissues of the penis. This is called penile rehabilitation or penile physio. About 20% of guys can still get an erection on HT. Erotica or porn might help if you struggle. You could also ask for 20mg Tadalafil from your GP which might help, and also has other health benefits. A pump is another option. Even if you can get an erection and maintain it for a while, you might not be able to reach orgasm with zero libido. That doesn't matter from the penile physio point of view.

Testosterone should come back but it takes a while for the hormone therapy to wear off. It took about 9 months for me after the last injection wore off, and that was after 22 months on injections. It may be a bit faster after a shorter period. When the Testosterone comes back, it does so quite quickly. It can be useful to have Testosterone added to your PSA tests after you finish the hormone therapy, as it's useful to know what's happening, and it help make more sense of the PSA value which if you still have a prostate is expected to rise when Testosterone recovers.

 

Edited by member 01 Nov 2022 at 21:45  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 01 Nov 2022 at 23:32

Hi Elaine

I am on 6 months of HT in total: 2 zoladex injections - each lasting 12 weeks. RT will be in between the 2 injections, around the end of November.

Thank you for your message and for your encouraging words. It is reassuring to know that there is some hope at the end of the process!

 

User
Posted 01 Nov 2022 at 23:42

Thanks Andy

It is so useful to get this sort of advice from people who have been through the treatment.

I will definitely see my GP for advice and will mention tadalafil (which I was not previously aware of). I will bear in mind too your tip about getting a testosterone test alongside the psa after my treatment finishes.

Regards

Vin

User
Posted 02 Nov 2022 at 16:15

Hi Vin59, I had similar treatment to you. Everyone is different, but regarding ADT, I started treatment in Oct 2019, my testosterone level was still below average 2 years later,  and at the last check up was only just at the bottom end of normal 30 months later. Great shout regarding tadalafil, definitely helped me. Good news is that everything seems to be working ok now.

Early days for you yet, but ADT is definitely no bunch of roses. 

Regards,

Will.

 

 

User
Posted 02 Nov 2022 at 20:08

Good to see people are getting testosterone recovery,but some don't recover. 

User
Posted 02 Nov 2022 at 22:10

Hi Vin

I had the same treatment as you - 37 doses of RT and a full 3 years of Hormone Injections - so different doses to you but essentially the same.

Side effects were the hot flushes which were quite severe at times - typically when stressed and always when I woke up.  This could be up to 3 times a night.  They offered tablets to counteract the flushes but I did not fancy the side effects.

I certainly became more feminine, liked to dress smartly and looked after myself more.  I certainly cried easily.

The sex drive just went out of the window for 3 years and I had to force myself to think about sex of any description.

Comments on here suggested the penile exercises to counteract atrophy at about my 12 months into the HT.  This was a life saver.  By then, the most worrying side effect had occurred: a tight foreskin.  This has remained a real problem until very recently, preventing penetrative sex and discouraging masturbation.  

Once the sex drive returned at about 12 months after the end of HT, things literally started to turn up.  Watch out for a tightening of the foreskin as it can be a real cause of concern and will need a lot of perseverance to get it back up and running again.  E45 cream is essential for lube.

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best and with a bit of good luck, you will come through it.  The final side effect remains: a complete lack of ejaculate.  This is a bonus  - no mess after you orgasm!  Very best wishes, keep checking on this site at there is simply LOADS of great comment, advice and support.

 

User
Posted 02 Nov 2022 at 22:16

AND.....ask for a DEXA scan - bone density can be affected by RT and can lead to osteoporosis.  I have just done 4 and a half years on calcium tablets and got the results of my scan today which shows very slight thinning of the bones but I no longer need the tablets which is good news.

User
Posted 02 Nov 2022 at 22:56

Thanks Jeeper

I appreciate your post and your comment about potential problems with foreskin - I will watch out for that. Good of you to give me the benefit of your experience.

Really pleased I have looked at these discussion boards. You can get lots of valuable information from the doctors and support nurses but the direct experience of patients who have been through these procedures is really helpful!

Vin

User
Posted 07 Nov 2022 at 07:11

Hello everyone, this is my first post.

I was diagnosed T3b PSA 70 Gleason 9 (5+4) in 2011 aged 49. 

My treatment was 3 years ADT and radiotherapy, 70Gy to prostate, seminal vesicles and nodes. My oncologist told me that this was the tried and tested method but it would render me impotent.

I started with a month of Casodex tablets followed by Zoladex injections every 3 months for 3 years. The impotence set in quite quickly as my T levels plummeted. Hot flushes? Yep, sweat would pump out of me. Man boobs as well, but at least they gave me something to play with eh? There was a change in my emotional state, I would become upset over things that previously wouldn't have affected me. But the most frightening change was that I began to feel suicidal. This meant that I made sure that I never found myself alone in the house. I would tag along with my wife even if she was going somewhere or to do something that I hated. Anything rather than be left alone at home.

Fast forward to 2018 and my suicidal thoughts were under control and my problems were more confined to the physical. No erections for years had meant that although circumcised, what foreskin that remained was fused to my glans and had to be released under general anesthetic. 

Sexual function began to slowly return as my T levels slowly rose. By 2020 the level was around 10. I started to use Tadalafil to help things along and can now get erections. I have suffered some shortening but would still fall within the "average " range and my testicles have shrunk a great deal. But the upside is that orgasms are more intense now than ever although dry. Sometimes I miss the ejaculation experience though. Also a durex cock ring helps to restore the missing length by stopping the blood flowing out.

Nobody from the health service advised me about the need for penile exercise during my treatment or prescribed any ED drugs. It was as though impotence was a cost of treatment and it was a price to be paid for a cure. That p***** me off.

But 7 or 8 years after my hormone treatment ended I still feel the effects. I still can get emotional and suicidal thoughts are never far away.

My PSA is 0.27 and my T is around 15 now. The rise in T levels have meant almost a second puberty and I have the sexual desire of a teenager although my body's response needs help. But as a one of life's cruel jokes, my wife and I are in our 60s and shall we say our desires are somewhat out of synch. If this carries on, my right arm will have muscles like Popeye.

Everyone's journey is different. Good luck.

 

 

User
Posted 07 Nov 2022 at 09:40

Thanks for the post speedster. I too was given no advice from medics on penile rehab. I haven't suffered too badly but a bit of Viagra is required to ensure things work reliably. Have you tried counseling or medication for mental health? It sounds like you're over the worst of it, but it may help.

I'm also G9 T3 though PSA only 25, treated 4 years ago. I find it quite reassuring to see posts from a similar diagnosis eleven years down the line.

Dave

User
Posted 07 Nov 2022 at 10:33

Dave

After my diagnosis I never had any contact with anyone from urology, my case was passed straight to oncology, although I assume there was input behind the scenes from a urologist.  I don't know but perhaps oncology were more focussed solely on the tumours, whereas if I had also been seeing a urologist, face to face, the penile rehab may have been addressed. Who knows?

Edited by member 07 Nov 2022 at 10:47  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 07 Nov 2022 at 11:31
Excellent point Speedster about keeping an eye on the foreskin fusing itself onto the glans penis. No one mentioned this to me and it bloody knackered ( bloody being the operative word) when I had to separate it. Should be told to everyone at the outset when prescribed HT.

Keep regularly checking it now, another lesson learned.

User
Posted 07 Nov 2022 at 11:41

As an aside, I will share the story of my diagnosis.

As I posted above, I was 49 and in apparent good health. I didn't have the classic symptoms of getting up in the night for frequent urination or needing to force out every drop. But I used to sit and watch what was the Tri nations rugby on a Saturday morning while drinking pot after pot of coffee. The coffee had the obvious effect of making me go on frequent trips to the toilet. My wife thought this sinister and made me go to the doctor. The doc did a blood test and next day contacted me asking to go in straight away.

The PSA was 70  which at the time meant nothing to me. He asked me health and lifestyle questions and carried out an examination. He told me that my prostate felt smooth and normal and because I had recently taken up cycling, he suggested I stay off the bike for 6 weeks and then get retested. Nothing to worry about.

The following week I was in front of a urologist at the hospital because there was a protocol in place to report such test results. I asked her what the likely cause of the test result and told her conversation I had had with my GP. She nearly fell off her chair. Although reluctant to tell me without scans and biopsies, she told me that I had cancer as she could actually feel the tumours.

Thank god for that protocol being in place to save me from the quack of a GP.

User
Posted 07 Nov 2022 at 11:49

Hello Jasper

Not pleasant is it? I had to have mine done under GA and afterwards it was bloody sore.

It really was a case of "Take away the pain but leave the swelling please doc"

User
Posted 07 Nov 2022 at 15:34

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

After my diagnosis I never had any contact with anyone from urology, my case was passed straight to oncology...

My case went straight to oncology, with no urology follow up. Then after four years, a urologist noticed and now I am having some fairly pointless urology follow up. Maybe if they had done this at the start I would have had some guidance. Fortunately for me the side effects have not been too bad.

Dave

User
Posted 07 Nov 2022 at 17:39

Another bump in the road on my journey that is prostate cancer treatment that I will share.

About 9 months after my radiotherapy finished I started having what can be best described as wet dreams but producing only copious amounts of blood. Back to the oncologist who sent me for another MRI to find out what was going on.

The following week the oncologist gave me the bad news that it appeared that my cancer had spread. Not only did I have to pass the news on to my family but I had to turn down a job offer as I would at best be facing an operation or at worst, facing an uncertain future. The oncologist already had a surgeon lined up.

2 weeks later the same oncologist informed me that at the weekly multi discipline meeting it had been determined that my cancer had not spread after all and the change in MRI images was in fact due to an upgrade to the machine which had resulted in higher definition, revealing previously unseen detail.

Obviously relieved but what a dreadful couple of weeks.

User
Posted 08 Nov 2022 at 14:29

Glad you got good news eventually regarding the scare being due to MRI machine upgrade, but what a shock it must have been for you!

Thanks for sharing your experiences, much appreciated.

User
Posted 25 Nov 2023 at 16:07

On the huge topic of living with ADT, I just discovered an amazing free resource from a remarkable man who is both a prostate cancer survivor on ADT and a scientist. I met him (Richard Wassersug) this week. Check it out at

www.LifeOnAdt.com

User
Posted 29 Nov 2023 at 06:54
Hi guys, so I am now 2 and a bit years into ADT after having SBRT for PCa spread to my lymph nodes. PSA still undetectable (thank god) and they will do another PET scan once I'm done with ADT. Frankly I can't wait to get off it, have been very emotional and exercising as much as possible to try and stave off any weight increases, etc.

So it's great to hear that a lot of you are getting back to normal post ADT. Am wondering if I will always now have balls the size of a squirrel once I am off it !!

Has anyone had pretty unsatisfying orgasms and do they go away post ADT ? I'm trying to keep things active but my orgasms are nowhere near as nice as they were pre ADT...

Cheers,

Jonathan

User
Posted 07 Dec 2023 at 15:46

I too had hormone injections in April 2022 followed by radiotherapy.

In November 2023 I had a testosterone check, which was in the normal range. So, I don't know when my testosterone recovered, but it was definitely back up after 18 months.

 
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