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Brief Update on Proton Beam Treatment

User
Posted 04 Jan 2023 at 23:10

I see that a 2009 'read only' thread has been reposted from the former format of this forum.  There have been developments since that time and some members have asked from time to time about Proton Bean as a potential option treatment for PCa.

Under medical advice the UK Government eventually gave the go ahead for 2 Cyclotrons in the UK to treat NHS patients and perhaps some private patients with Protons.  These were to be at the Christy in Manchester and then at UCLH in London.  These were major projects but much smaller, and less costly than building Synchrotrons like some others abroad, which are additionally able to treat with Carbons Ions which have a far greater RBE. It should be noted that these two centres are designed to treat various types of cancer.  Previously, some patients, mainly children with head tumours, were individually funded to have Proton Beam treatment in the USA which very expensive.  This was done because it was well established that Proton Beam causes less damage to good cells than other forms of RT in patients with cancer in their head of neck. So being able to treat cancers in the UK saved on costs of the treatment patients overseas.  This also enabled other forms of cancer to be  be treated.  Also, it would be expected that the UK should not be left behand by even some not generally so advanced counties who were constructing  Hydron  treatment facilities. No doubt there are also other reasons for the UK having these units. 

As regards PCa, there is not a lot of information on how well Proton Beam compares with conventional Photon RT and what there is  sometimes conflicts.  Nevertheless, from what I read, I gather that for PCa it has not shown the degree of benefits it has demonstrated for some other cancers which is disappointing.  However. a leading Urologist says it is also being used by UCLH to treat PCa, so perhaps we will get more definitive information in due course. 

Not so long ago a Cyclotron was opened in Wales to treat private patients for various cancers Unfortunately, although the Rutherford Group took on some NHS work, they went into liquidation, so to the best of my knowledge, that just leaves the aforementioned NHS ones at Manchester and London.

Please comment if you have any further information or thoughts on Proton Beam.                                                  

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          

 

 

 

 

Barry
User
Posted 05 Jan 2023 at 01:00

No randomised control trials of proton beam verses photon beam (standard external beam radiotherapy) have ever been completed as far as I know. Many of the US proton centres published results comparing their current proton beam with much older photon beam than we use in the UK without today's levels of guidance or masking. I don't know if these old systems were still in use in the US at the time, but it might be the only way they could get favorable comparison results. Photon radiotherapy advances at quite a rate because of a few companies such as Varian, Electa, etc competing very heavily on new features and continually leapfrogging each other, and likely outpacing the capabilities of the much more expensive proton machines to keep up.

We had a talk from an oncologist at a local support group. He had been sending private patients to the Rutherford centres, but he'd stopped doing so. He wasn't very specific on why, but he had formed the view that proton beam wasn't getting better results than modern photon beam.

The NHS did a comparison of proton beam verses photon beam in 2016 for prostate treatment from what data they could find around the world, and came to the conclusion the side effects weren't better with proton beam, and indeed rectal damage was very slightly worse. (All proton beam treatment in the UK was done with rectal spacers AFAIK.)

Someone here (Matron?) mentioned that outcomes for higher grade cancers were not as good with proton beam, although I haven't seen that data. I did speculate that the reduction in beam spill outside the target area might mean that local micro-mets are less likely to get mopped up.

I watched a social media conversation between several surgeons around the world who do salvage prostatectomies, and they all said the most difficult ones to do are after proton beam treatments, and the damage/fibrosis around the prostate is far worse than for any other treatment, so much so that the whole base of the bladder often has to be removed.

So, much as I appreciate the theoretical advantages often stated for proton beam, the actual advantages in practice would appear to be more elusive.

I have thought that proton beam would be ideal for treating individual lymph nodes and other ogliometastatic hot spots, but I've never heard of it being used for this purpose.

Proton beam did come up in a UCLH support group meeting when their proton beam went live, and I know they were quite keen to run a randomised control trial. I wonder if that's what the prostate treatment on their proton beam system is?

Edited by member 05 Jan 2023 at 16:24  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 05 Jan 2023 at 02:39

Interesting, thanks Barry and Andy

Jules

User
Posted 05 Jan 2023 at 10:40

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
Not so long ago a Cyclotron was opened in Wales to treat private patients for various cancers Unfortunately, although the Rutherford Group took on some NHS work, they went into liquidation

I think they had 3 proton facilities by the time they went into liquidation. Second one was in Reading, and the third one somewhere up north. I'm not aware they did any proton beam for the NHS, but they also had a LINAC at each facility and did a little overflow work for the NHS on that and MRI scans. They had built a separate facility somewhere else which was providing some other cancer facilities for the NHS.

User
Posted 05 Jan 2023 at 14:02

I think Newcastle was the other one. I am curious what you do with a spare proton beam unit, put it on eBay? I would assume it would be sold by administrator, and continue to function as a going concern, unencumbered by the debt from the original construction cost. Initial investors would of course have lost out. This is how Concorde was able to operate after the ruinous development costs.

Dave

User
Posted 05 Jan 2023 at 15:13

Interesting post. It seems we still lack solid, reliable data on proton therapy versus x-rays. 

Ido4

 
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