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KETO diet

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User
Posted 09 Jan 2023 at 19:30

Hi all,

I have embarked on HT prior to RT and have read many people talking about weight gain.

My question is if anyone has any experience or view on a KETO diet as a way of fending off the tyre and muscle loss?

N

User
Posted 10 Jan 2023 at 13:20
44nigel, I have been on and off keto for about three years. When I first started I gave myself very strict parameters of 50g of carbs per day and no more than 1500kcals a day. It was a bit extreme but it worked.

One of the best books I have found is the Diabetes weight loss cookbook by Katie & Giancarlo Caldesi. I don’t want to ruin your excitement however you will become an expert using almond flour, courgettes, cauliflower and salmon or courgettes, almond flour, salmon and cauliflower….😂

The recipes use a lot of egg white which is available in cartons from supermarkets and a mysterious ingredient called psyllium husk.

Psyllium husk is the ground husk from the plantago ovata plant grown mainly in India. The husk becomes a gel when mixed with water so it is good at binding ingredients. It is also HIGH IN FIBRE so if you have bowel/stool problems I suggest you seek medical advice before using it.

I love it and take a teaspoon and a half of it in a mug of hot water at 2000hrs every night ( except wine night 😳 )

The book is very good at making “bread” and “rice” alternatives using almond flour, courgettes, cauliflower and no salmon!

The problem I have is there is quite a lot of preparation which needs to be done and at the moment I sometimes can’t be bothered preparing the meals due to my erratic sleep patterns😴

Hope that helps.

Now should I address the🐘 in the room?

I am fairly new to this forum. I am posting quite regularly as I am going through the real time Prostate cancer experience at the moment.

I can see my input get less and less because my procedure is over and it is now waiting to see what happens. I am just trying to give people information. I sometimes feel a bit of a fraud because my PCa was caught very early and there is not much to say once the brachytherapy procedure is over ( I may post again if I get bowel cancer from it in two years time, however I hope not! ).

I still find this forum very useful with insights I would never have thought of.

There are people here from all walk of lives, jobs and experiences. I must admit having read some of francij1 posts I thought he seems a bit angry, but if you can’t get angry when you have prostrate cancer and all it’s baggage when can you get angry and frustrated?

Personally I didn’t see anything wrong with francij1’s post on this thread.

I was an Air Traffic Controller for thirty three years and the level of banter which surrounded it was incredible, a very thick skin was needed to bond with your work colleagues, and bond we did.

This is just an online forum don’t let it get under your skin.

So why don't we just remember the following points.

1 We are members of this forum because we are alive and want to pass information on to others.

2 We are alive.

I don’t think we need any square go’s ( as they say in Glasgow ) between members.

This post has taken me thirty minutes to write. I could have used that time to do something creative with almond flour, courgettes, cauliflower and salmon!🤔

Rgds

Dave

User
Posted 10 Jan 2023 at 17:27

Many thanks for the diet advice all

I will add that I didn’t feel there was an angry comment, blunt maybe but blunt is fine. I want to add that my journey started not long ago and the T3aN1 has scared me half to death but this forum has been nothing short of awesome.

I get little information from the hospital and what I get is slow in coming. The people on here put their own time into helping others on the journey, providing real life experience and opinions.I for one have found it invaluable. Long may it continue. 😀

User
Posted 10 Jan 2023 at 19:10

Hello all,

I rarely log on to the forum nowadays despite initially gleaming valuable information. I can  however, see what Gabriel8 means. I found established members would occasionally be glib with their comments such as one word replies when discussing diet and PCa. The final straw for me was when a new member with obvious concerns, was being ‘evaluated’ by two fellow contributors. The line that put me off was “ I think we’re talking mets here ‘name’ “ That over-stepped the mark for me.

All the best, Paul.

User
Posted 11 Jan 2023 at 20:01

Well I guess getting fat or not is a touchy subject!!

seriously I was looking for opinions only 

to be honest I am quite amused by how this thread has developed and let us remember there are more important issues we face 🙄

User
Posted 30 Jan 2023 at 02:52

I had RP last March, started on ADT in July and had 33 sessions of RT that finished in December. 

I’ve tried to follow a ketogenic diet through this time and it has seemed to help me. I lost 20kg last year leading up to and after my op which I’m convinced helped with my recovery. I’m a keen cyclist and was back on my bike doing 25-50mile rides 6 weeks after my op. 

The ketogenic diet has helped me keep my weight under control on ADT. I also added resistance training which I feel has helped reduce the side effects of ADT. 

You are probably aware there are different definitions of ‘Keto’ ranging from the Atkins diet through to a therapeutic ketogenic diets. They both promote dramatic  carb reduction but the TKD focuses on ‘healthy’ fats. It is this approach I follow rather than the ‘eat all the fried breakfasts you want’ variant of Keto. 

The best tool I have used is a keto meter which measures both ketones and glucose in your blood. It’s getting both of those in the right balance that defines a therapeutic ketogenic diet. 

I found the research by a team in Australia who investigated the positive impact of exercise and diet interventions amongst PC sufferers and it was this that convinced me to follow this approach (diet + exercise) to complement my treatments.  

I know it won’t suit everyone but this approach has worked for me so far. Long may it continue! 

Show Most Thanked Posts
User
Posted 09 Jan 2023 at 22:16
No experience of HT but using a combination of Carb reduction (avoid bread potatoes pasta and anything with sugar) and 10/14 fasting (no breakfast) has removed 10% of my weight (100kg down to 89kg) over 6 months.

Another benefit has been coming off blood pressure medication and knocking 2 points off my blood sugar "score".

User
Posted 10 Jan 2023 at 00:57

Nigel 

I went on it a couple of years ago and lost three stone, two of which I never put back on. I considered it for the same purpose that you are but decided against it for two reasons: first, a lack of nutrients, second, when I undertook Keto I took a lot of supplements; unfortunately there are many conflicting reports of taking supplements with cancer.

In the end I have opted for a balanced diet but three or four days I fast. I stop eating at 20:00hrs and do not eat until 12:00 the following day. I combine this with exercise.

It seems to work.

On a separate but related matter I am reading up a lot on the type of diet to prevent and combat cancer. I have ordered a couple of books, one recommended by a forum member and I shall in due course update. 

Gabriel

 

Edited by member 10 Jan 2023 at 01:05  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 10 Jan 2023 at 07:17
Keto diets are nutrient dense Not deficient. All you are reducing is carbohydrate. Leafy veg is "unlimited".
User
Posted 10 Jan 2023 at 07:52

Many thanks for the replies,

it chimes with my understanding basically no carbs …… it sounds pretty much like my wife follows to manage her type 2 diabetes……. So goodbye carbs …….

N

User
Posted 10 Jan 2023 at 08:43

Dear Francij1

I am sorry to invade Nigel's pitch, but your tone is somewhat combative. This is supposed to be a forum. That is a place where ideas and experiences are exchanged and to promote discussion. It is not a boxing ring.

It pains me to make this point, but it isn't that. It seems to be dominated by a few individuals with dogmatic and definitive views, that are often incorrect. To answer your point on keto diets, it depends on the keto diet.

There are a few people on here like Dave and Barry who have provided longstanding advice derived from experience. Their contributions appear to be ceaseless, well intentioned and invaluable. There are others, whatever their motivation who provide comments from bicycle pumps to penis pumps, from strawberry jam to medication without either being qualified or having the relevant experience to do so. What is disconcerting is that they offer receive adulation from individuals who are in the depths of despair. Alas, their contributions are often gleaned from the internet, their assertions often fallacious. In reality, sometimes the best outcomes will be achieved if the forum accepts that being polite is not always the best approach. Moreover being silent is the worst outcome. Logic would tell me that the lack of active participation from newcomers is because the culture of the forum does not encourage this. 

Another aspect is tone: "in my humble opinion" or " from my experience" seem to be very much lacking. I have not written this without considerable thought but I have studied and analysed the archived discussions on this forum and also the current ones. There is a vast difference in: tone, content and indeed culture, something on the forum has changed.

I think the moderators need a kick up the arse. We need more participation, more humility and less self righteousness and showboating.

Yes, I have already put on the blindfold and smoked my last cigarette, but someone needs to put forward a contrarian view.

This is not a forum, it is a classroom and one where all of the teachers are not qualified. The notion of the omnipotent leader went out the door twenty years ago. It should be about facilitation.

In my 35 years as an academic and professor, it was rarely those who spoke the loudest who wrote the best dissertations. Having said that, it is about diversity and to me that is really lacking on this forum.

Gabriel 

 

 

 

Edited by member 10 Jan 2023 at 08:52  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 10 Jan 2023 at 13:20
44nigel, I have been on and off keto for about three years. When I first started I gave myself very strict parameters of 50g of carbs per day and no more than 1500kcals a day. It was a bit extreme but it worked.

One of the best books I have found is the Diabetes weight loss cookbook by Katie & Giancarlo Caldesi. I don’t want to ruin your excitement however you will become an expert using almond flour, courgettes, cauliflower and salmon or courgettes, almond flour, salmon and cauliflower….😂

The recipes use a lot of egg white which is available in cartons from supermarkets and a mysterious ingredient called psyllium husk.

Psyllium husk is the ground husk from the plantago ovata plant grown mainly in India. The husk becomes a gel when mixed with water so it is good at binding ingredients. It is also HIGH IN FIBRE so if you have bowel/stool problems I suggest you seek medical advice before using it.

I love it and take a teaspoon and a half of it in a mug of hot water at 2000hrs every night ( except wine night 😳 )

The book is very good at making “bread” and “rice” alternatives using almond flour, courgettes, cauliflower and no salmon!

The problem I have is there is quite a lot of preparation which needs to be done and at the moment I sometimes can’t be bothered preparing the meals due to my erratic sleep patterns😴

Hope that helps.

Now should I address the🐘 in the room?

I am fairly new to this forum. I am posting quite regularly as I am going through the real time Prostate cancer experience at the moment.

I can see my input get less and less because my procedure is over and it is now waiting to see what happens. I am just trying to give people information. I sometimes feel a bit of a fraud because my PCa was caught very early and there is not much to say once the brachytherapy procedure is over ( I may post again if I get bowel cancer from it in two years time, however I hope not! ).

I still find this forum very useful with insights I would never have thought of.

There are people here from all walk of lives, jobs and experiences. I must admit having read some of francij1 posts I thought he seems a bit angry, but if you can’t get angry when you have prostrate cancer and all it’s baggage when can you get angry and frustrated?

Personally I didn’t see anything wrong with francij1’s post on this thread.

I was an Air Traffic Controller for thirty three years and the level of banter which surrounded it was incredible, a very thick skin was needed to bond with your work colleagues, and bond we did.

This is just an online forum don’t let it get under your skin.

So why don't we just remember the following points.

1 We are members of this forum because we are alive and want to pass information on to others.

2 We are alive.

I don’t think we need any square go’s ( as they say in Glasgow ) between members.

This post has taken me thirty minutes to write. I could have used that time to do something creative with almond flour, courgettes, cauliflower and salmon!🤔

Rgds

Dave

User
Posted 10 Jan 2023 at 13:31
Nigel asked for experience of keto, I gave my experience.

Gabriel said keto diets are nutrient deficient - that is simply incorrect so I corrected that. Happy to have my opinion challenged. Now if Gabriel had said they were carbohydrate deficient I would have agreed.

I am certainly not angry at the moment no idea why my answers to this question made you think that.

Now if you want angry me go back a few years when I had something to be angry about!

User
Posted 10 Jan 2023 at 13:35
😂👍
User
Posted 10 Jan 2023 at 13:39
Oh one more thing the contributers to this forum have the best qualification to comment you can have: "lived experience".

This is unequivocally the best PC forum on the planet.

I can personally thank many of the unqualified teachers on here for:

Saving me from mental health issues

Restoring my self confidence

Giving me countless effective tips for managing sexual function issues

Saving me from unnecessary radiation treatment

Please keep up the good work...

User
Posted 10 Jan 2023 at 17:27

Many thanks for the diet advice all

I will add that I didn’t feel there was an angry comment, blunt maybe but blunt is fine. I want to add that my journey started not long ago and the T3aN1 has scared me half to death but this forum has been nothing short of awesome.

I get little information from the hospital and what I get is slow in coming. The people on here put their own time into helping others on the journey, providing real life experience and opinions.I for one have found it invaluable. Long may it continue. 😀

User
Posted 10 Jan 2023 at 19:10

Hello all,

I rarely log on to the forum nowadays despite initially gleaming valuable information. I can  however, see what Gabriel8 means. I found established members would occasionally be glib with their comments such as one word replies when discussing diet and PCa. The final straw for me was when a new member with obvious concerns, was being ‘evaluated’ by two fellow contributors. The line that put me off was “ I think we’re talking mets here ‘name’ “ That over-stepped the mark for me.

All the best, Paul.

User
Posted 10 Jan 2023 at 19:25

Hi Bestie,

thanks for your post

maybe we should just let people be people … None of us are perfect and we choose what offends and or upsets us. There is no right or wrong.

But I reiterate the fact that without the forum and the tool kit all I would have right now is a  set of numbers that were meaningless.

this forum along with the toolkit have been exceptionally informative and to a certain extent comforting.

let’s be honest here the forum is not a classroom it is open for people to speak how they wish to.  They understand the situation they are in and come from very different backgrounds and experiences. My point is that tolerance is key and we share a common goal to come out the other side alive and well.

N

 

 

 

User
Posted 10 Jan 2023 at 19:39

Hi Paul

Hope you are well

Bri

User
Posted 10 Jan 2023 at 22:53
I am not sure what has sparked off some prickliness on this particular thread. I have found this forum brilliant in connecting me to others who are going through the same prostate cancer issues, with lots of good advice and more importantly reassurance about what I was experiencing. I hope in turn me recounting my experiences helps others.

At risk of being shot down I would say that dieting is a matter of faith rather than there being such a thing as the "right" one. There are quite a few complicated physiological processes that interact to determine how hungry we are, how much we eat, and how those calories gets converted into physical energy or heat or laying down fat - which means there isn't a simple answer however much people might say so.

While I am personally not sure the "keto diet" is better than many other diets it does incorporate something I do think is important, minimisation of intake of simple sugars which don't make you feel full but shift the body to storing fat. People should definitely avoid snacking (of liquid calories as well as solid), and timing meals so that your body goes into "fasting mode" for part of the day is almost certainly helpful. (I would also recommend avoiding sugar substitutes; while the hard evidence isn't yet good there seems a real likelihood that while not containing calories themselves their sweetness causes some stimulation of the body towards fat storage in the same way as sugar).

But, following Gabriel, this isn't something I am saying with a "loud" voice. The best diet for you is the one that you can stick to and works for you, regardless of what others recommend.

User
Posted 10 Jan 2023 at 23:26

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
Now if you want angry me go back a few years when I had something to be angry about!

Common to many of us early on and probably the explanation for the mood that has permeated this thread.

Jules

User
Posted 11 Jan 2023 at 20:01

Well I guess getting fat or not is a touchy subject!!

seriously I was looking for opinions only 

to be honest I am quite amused by how this thread has developed and let us remember there are more important issues we face 🙄

User
Posted 11 Jan 2023 at 22:04

In my experience if you reduce your sugar intake then you will more than likely lose weight. Once you have eaten in the evening don't eat anything else till breakfast. I lost over a stone in weight by following those simple rules. 

The main thing is, I still drink beer...

User
Posted 11 Jan 2023 at 22:34

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

In my experience if you reduce your sugar intake then you will more than likely lose weight. Once you have eaten in the evening don't eat anything else till breakfast. I lost over a stone in weight by following those simple rules. 

The main thing is, I still drink beer...

I reckon that's about right 😀. HT will cause weight gain if you're not careful and given all the other stuff that we have to deal with during HT it's easy to over indulge in one of the simple pleasures left to us ... eating.

So, reduce sugar and maybe do fasting as Gabriel has suggested. I often have a couple of days a week where I have a simple fruit breakfast and a couple of boiled eggs with some fresh green beans for "dinner". This is a holding pattern after I gained and then lost 5kg early on. Just cutting down on portion size for all meals helps.

Jules

User
Posted 30 Jan 2023 at 02:52

I had RP last March, started on ADT in July and had 33 sessions of RT that finished in December. 

I’ve tried to follow a ketogenic diet through this time and it has seemed to help me. I lost 20kg last year leading up to and after my op which I’m convinced helped with my recovery. I’m a keen cyclist and was back on my bike doing 25-50mile rides 6 weeks after my op. 

The ketogenic diet has helped me keep my weight under control on ADT. I also added resistance training which I feel has helped reduce the side effects of ADT. 

You are probably aware there are different definitions of ‘Keto’ ranging from the Atkins diet through to a therapeutic ketogenic diets. They both promote dramatic  carb reduction but the TKD focuses on ‘healthy’ fats. It is this approach I follow rather than the ‘eat all the fried breakfasts you want’ variant of Keto. 

The best tool I have used is a keto meter which measures both ketones and glucose in your blood. It’s getting both of those in the right balance that defines a therapeutic ketogenic diet. 

I found the research by a team in Australia who investigated the positive impact of exercise and diet interventions amongst PC sufferers and it was this that convinced me to follow this approach (diet + exercise) to complement my treatments.  

I know it won’t suit everyone but this approach has worked for me so far. Long may it continue! 

 
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