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Treating ED post-surgery

User
Posted 23 Jan 2023 at 13:29

I am confused by the different treatments being offered to deal with ED following surgery. In the area where I live, the treatment is 4 Sildenafil per month. A friend, living in a different part of the country, who had the same operation two years ago, was given a pump prior to the operation and once the catheter was removed was prescribed 12 Sildenafil per month and told to start using the pump. There seems to be no consistency which makes it difficult to know what I should or shouldn’t be doing. What advice has anyone else been given?

User
Posted 23 Jan 2023 at 16:54

In theory, all men should have the same service; NICE says that a man should be offered a vacuum device for post-op penile rehabilitation. NICE used to say that men should have daily dose cialis post-op but that was removed and left to individual ICBs (the new name for CCGs) and NHS trusts. Under NICE guidance, any man with ED as a result of prostate cancer or as a side effect of treatment for prostate cancer is entitled to:
- 4 muse pellets or
- 4 injections or
- as many viagra tablets as the patient says they need (e.g if a man says that he needs 30 per month because he is used to having intercourse every day, then he should be prescribed that many)

In reality, a lot of ICBs and NHS trusts are ignoring NICE guidelines and doing their own thing - some areas have blocked the prescribing of vacuums or daily cialis (or both) and limit men to 4 viagra / levitra / cialis tablets per month ... in effect, you are rationed to 1 sahg per week. Some NHS trusts have closed their andrology clinic and laid off the ED nurse specialist, leaving everything to the whim of GPs.

Add in to the confusion that an ED nurse or urologist can write to the GP requesting that they prescribe a treatment for you but the GP can refuse to do so due to cost (in effect, it comes out of the GP practice budget).  This is the same as when an oncologist recommends Prostap or Zoladex and the GP changes it to Degarelix, or vice versa.

You should be able to find your NHS trust prescribing guidelines for ED through a simple google search. 

Edited by member 23 Jan 2023 at 16:57  | Reason: Not specified

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 23 Jan 2023 at 14:09

In my trust I have been given no advice post operative.

I bought my own pump and asked my doctor to prescribe Sildenafil. My GP did not seem to understand that the Sildenafil was for rehabilitation. I was given eight tablets but not on a repeat prescription.

I have been referred to the sexual health clinic but it will be at least 5 - 6 months post op before I attend.

Self help for me.

User
Posted 23 Jan 2023 at 17:37

I don't know if it was just fate that I signed up to the andrology survey at UCLH just before my surgery. Any interaction with my sexual health/ED issues is solely dealt with by the consultant at the 3monthly appointments. Nothing at all from my GP Surgery or my local NHS Trust. I had already personally ordered vacurrect VED device before before my first appointment, and got my tadalafil tablets online before my initial appointment. However, at the second consultation, I was prescribed the injections which I picked up from the hospital pharmacy, it however still does not show up as a prescription on my record, (thankfully, I used the injection 2ce and it did not work) so not stressing about repeat prescription. I do however get 8 tadalafil tablets on a monthly prescription - My consultant told me there is no evidence that the daily dose of 5mg tablets is anymore effective than the 20mg twice a week!

What is apparent is that there is no plan for the attendant quality of life issues that occurs post prostate cancer surgery. Sadly, we just have to fend for ourselves and find out what works best. I don't know if this is as a result of the pandemic (pressures on the NHS) or was always the case even before the pandemic!

User
Posted 23 Jan 2023 at 18:27
I think it is the opposite Gee - there was a plan for QoL after prostate cancer treatment but it has fallen apart at the seams in recent years. Possibly accelerated by Covid but I think the postcode lottery was becoming clear on here long before March 2020
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 31 May 2023 at 14:09

This might come a bit late for me, as I had my surgery 12mths ago. However, this urologist seems to recommend penile injections from about 2weeks post surgery, he is of the opinion that this vastly improves outcomes. Again, I wonder, why this was not advised after my surgery.

The link to the video is here

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User
Posted 23 Jan 2023 at 14:09

In my trust I have been given no advice post operative.

I bought my own pump and asked my doctor to prescribe Sildenafil. My GP did not seem to understand that the Sildenafil was for rehabilitation. I was given eight tablets but not on a repeat prescription.

I have been referred to the sexual health clinic but it will be at least 5 - 6 months post op before I attend.

Self help for me.

User
Posted 23 Jan 2023 at 16:39

Jim, I’ve received a telephone appointment through the post this morning to speak with a nurse and I’m guessing it’s the Sexual Health nurse. This will be about 11 weeks post surgery. Hopefully I’ll get some steer as to the way forward.

User
Posted 23 Jan 2023 at 16:54

In theory, all men should have the same service; NICE says that a man should be offered a vacuum device for post-op penile rehabilitation. NICE used to say that men should have daily dose cialis post-op but that was removed and left to individual ICBs (the new name for CCGs) and NHS trusts. Under NICE guidance, any man with ED as a result of prostate cancer or as a side effect of treatment for prostate cancer is entitled to:
- 4 muse pellets or
- 4 injections or
- as many viagra tablets as the patient says they need (e.g if a man says that he needs 30 per month because he is used to having intercourse every day, then he should be prescribed that many)

In reality, a lot of ICBs and NHS trusts are ignoring NICE guidelines and doing their own thing - some areas have blocked the prescribing of vacuums or daily cialis (or both) and limit men to 4 viagra / levitra / cialis tablets per month ... in effect, you are rationed to 1 sahg per week. Some NHS trusts have closed their andrology clinic and laid off the ED nurse specialist, leaving everything to the whim of GPs.

Add in to the confusion that an ED nurse or urologist can write to the GP requesting that they prescribe a treatment for you but the GP can refuse to do so due to cost (in effect, it comes out of the GP practice budget).  This is the same as when an oncologist recommends Prostap or Zoladex and the GP changes it to Degarelix, or vice versa.

You should be able to find your NHS trust prescribing guidelines for ED through a simple google search. 

Edited by member 23 Jan 2023 at 16:57  | Reason: Not specified

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 23 Jan 2023 at 17:37

I don't know if it was just fate that I signed up to the andrology survey at UCLH just before my surgery. Any interaction with my sexual health/ED issues is solely dealt with by the consultant at the 3monthly appointments. Nothing at all from my GP Surgery or my local NHS Trust. I had already personally ordered vacurrect VED device before before my first appointment, and got my tadalafil tablets online before my initial appointment. However, at the second consultation, I was prescribed the injections which I picked up from the hospital pharmacy, it however still does not show up as a prescription on my record, (thankfully, I used the injection 2ce and it did not work) so not stressing about repeat prescription. I do however get 8 tadalafil tablets on a monthly prescription - My consultant told me there is no evidence that the daily dose of 5mg tablets is anymore effective than the 20mg twice a week!

What is apparent is that there is no plan for the attendant quality of life issues that occurs post prostate cancer surgery. Sadly, we just have to fend for ourselves and find out what works best. I don't know if this is as a result of the pandemic (pressures on the NHS) or was always the case even before the pandemic!

User
Posted 23 Jan 2023 at 18:07

Thanks Lyn, interesting about the Viagra.

User
Posted 23 Jan 2023 at 18:27
I think it is the opposite Gee - there was a plan for QoL after prostate cancer treatment but it has fallen apart at the seams in recent years. Possibly accelerated by Covid but I think the postcode lottery was becoming clear on here long before March 2020
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 23 Jan 2023 at 21:22

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
I think it is the opposite Gee - there was a plan for QoL after prostate cancer treatment but it has fallen apart at the seams in recent years. Possibly accelerated by Covid but I think the postcode lottery was becoming clear on here long before March 2020

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lyn, I concur. I cannot fault the NHS from diagnosis to surgery. I sometimes think maybe I am being a bit selfish and should be grateful that the pca was caught and treated. ED and a bit of nighttime incontinence is not a lot in the grand scheme of things and is par for the course.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

User
Posted 31 May 2023 at 14:09

This might come a bit late for me, as I had my surgery 12mths ago. However, this urologist seems to recommend penile injections from about 2weeks post surgery, he is of the opinion that this vastly improves outcomes. Again, I wonder, why this was not advised after my surgery.

The link to the video is here

User
Posted 01 Jun 2023 at 12:02
i had my surgery 18 months ago- i was prescribed Cialis which was not effective at all, have asked to be referred to Ed service 3 times but still nothing. Its very disappointing.
User
Posted 14 Jun 2023 at 13:07

8 days post Op so waiting for catheter out first obviously. However Royal Marsden/Guy’s London view is:

one week after catheter removed take 5mg Cialis per day and stimulate once a week minimum to orgasm,

Week 4 after surgery if penile length reduced or no effect from Cialis then start using Pump

week 8+ if still struggling then consider injections

 

All quite quick, but makes sense as apparently getting to ‘exercise’ it early increases chances of getting back to some function quicker.

Hope this helps.

User
Posted 14 Jun 2023 at 13:59
My "function" didn't really start improving until I started with the injections after 18months. Getting a regular hard erection from the injections was transformative even though I only used them for 6 months, it continues to improve 8 years later..

I first used the pump at about 4 months, the accompanying blood loss put me off for another few months but it was I am sure a great help with penile physio

 
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