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it's back (maybe)

User
Posted 05 Apr 2023 at 22:16

13 months after RP, the Marsden reported today that my PSA is up to 0.05. It's been rising by 0.01 each time since my first test, so that was not a surprise. At the last three-monthly check, I asked to see an oncologist, so that is now a regular feature of the cycle now. The oncologist told me today that he would like me to consider radiotherapy. It's not what they described as adjuvent, but nor is it salvage. Next step is a face-to-face meeting, followed by a radiotherapy induction and then into the process itself. From negative margins and 2TC a year ago to this. 

User
Posted 12 Apr 2023 at 23:39

Hi Chris,

The conclusion of the link in your post  says  'Among patients with at most one high-risk factor, initiating sRT above a PSA level of 0.25 ng/mL was associated with increased ACM-risk.'

Which I take to read it's better to have sRT before psa <0.25 as All Cause Mortality increases above that.  It also says ACM increases at every point above that up to psa 0.5 but doesn't change below 0.25.

How ACM differs from PCa specific probably needs deeper reading.

It also creates a small window for best results as psa 0.2 is around the lowest level for a decent PSMA scan but 0.25 is the maximum level not to effect results of RT.

Hope that's sense. Peter

 

Edited by member 12 Apr 2023 at 23:41  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 03 May 2023 at 23:02
I had my planning scan today. Managed to hold on long enough after drinking the water to emerge unscathed. Despite my best efforts to fart it all out, I was a little gassy, but apparently within tolerable limits. You were all right - the tattoos didn't hurt at all. Now onto the start of radiotherapy on 22 May.
User
Posted 08 Apr 2023 at 08:25

Superhoop, I was refused a PSMA scan before my salvage RT, and had it on the "very educated guess" basis. There was presumably something it the bed as my PSA did drop, but didn't go below below 0.04 and then carried on rising. I didn't have HT. 

Since my SRT they found a tumor in a pelvic lymph node. Below is a link I posted the other day, I don't claim to understand these research articles and they may not apply to you. 

 

https://ascopubs.org/doi/full/10.1200/JCO.22.02489

 

Thanks Chris 

Edited by moderator 06 Jul 2023 at 13:14  | Reason: Forgot link

User
Posted 21 Apr 2023 at 19:54
I don't see why RT can't be given in Manchester. This treatment really is the province of an Oncologist rather than the surgeon.
Barry
User
Posted 22 Jun 2023 at 15:30
I finished 20 sessions of salvage RT (without HT) on Tuesday at the Marsden. The first three weeks were a breeze, but I started having bowel problems in the final week. The excellent care team told me that this was not unexpected but it should settle down in coming weeks. Now we wait. I have a check-in in August and then another PSA test in December.
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User
Posted 08 Apr 2023 at 00:08
 29 Jan 2023 at 06:33

 

Your case is very similar to mine.  Prostatectomy in December 2016.

 

Jan 17 PSA 0.014  April 17 0.015 July 17 0.019 October 17 0.023

 

Jan 18 decided I needed salvage radiotherapy.

 

This is the important bit......without a scan, salvage treatment is a bit of guesswork.  My Oncologist planned to treat a small area.  I paid for a psma scan and it showed 2 nodes outside the proposed treatment area.  This completely changed my treatment plan.

 

I also had bicalutimide for 18 months and tamoxifen. 

 

My PSA has been <0.006 ever since.  ((Although I get my annual blood test result tomorrow....hopefully it'll still be the same.))

User
Posted 08 Apr 2023 at 08:25

Superhoop, I was refused a PSMA scan before my salvage RT, and had it on the "very educated guess" basis. There was presumably something it the bed as my PSA did drop, but didn't go below below 0.04 and then carried on rising. I didn't have HT. 

Since my SRT they found a tumor in a pelvic lymph node. Below is a link I posted the other day, I don't claim to understand these research articles and they may not apply to you. 

 

https://ascopubs.org/doi/full/10.1200/JCO.22.02489

 

Thanks Chris 

Edited by moderator 06 Jul 2023 at 13:14  | Reason: Forgot link

User
Posted 09 Apr 2023 at 06:47

I wasn't quite in your position S-hoop as I had RT first up to deal with a G9, with several lymph node mets.

I have to agree with Ulsterman though. If it hadn't been for a PSMA Pet scan my lymph node mets would not have been picked up and then targeted by RT.

So far, so good with the treatment. PSA at <0.01 at 2 years post treatment, though waiting to see what happens if/when my testosterone awakes.

I know PSMA PET scans are "rationed" according to priorities in the UK, due to a shortage of funding but if you can manage to get one it could be life saving.

Jules

User
Posted 09 Apr 2023 at 09:26
Important to understand that PSMA PET scans are not just rationed because of cost; there are also significant practical reasons why they are not easily available. The tracer is very difficult to make and is only produced in 3 or 4 places in England, doesn't travel well and has to be used within a few hours of being made. I read recently that each production centres can make enough for about 10 scans so that is 30 or 40 men in the whole country. Not only does the consultant need to believe that your clinical need is greater than almost everyone else's- you also need to be living near a hospital that is with travelling reach of a production centre or you need to be able to travel.

There is a production centre in Manchester now but it serves the whole of the NW and across the M62 to Leeds, York, etc. Obviously, they will prioritise men in Manchester over men in York if they only have a maximum of 10 doses.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 12 Apr 2023 at 23:39

Hi Chris,

The conclusion of the link in your post  says  'Among patients with at most one high-risk factor, initiating sRT above a PSA level of 0.25 ng/mL was associated with increased ACM-risk.'

Which I take to read it's better to have sRT before psa <0.25 as All Cause Mortality increases above that.  It also says ACM increases at every point above that up to psa 0.5 but doesn't change below 0.25.

How ACM differs from PCa specific probably needs deeper reading.

It also creates a small window for best results as psa 0.2 is around the lowest level for a decent PSMA scan but 0.25 is the maximum level not to effect results of RT.

Hope that's sense. Peter

 

Edited by member 12 Apr 2023 at 23:41  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 20 Apr 2023 at 17:04

I saw an oncologist yesterday. They want to take action now, give three consecutive rises in PSA, albeit only to 0.05. Interesting to learn that although I had clear margins on the histology, on one side it got very close. So we will gear up for RT in coming weeks. They assumed I would also want hormone therapy. Why? Because it might reduce risk of further recurrence by 2-5%. I'm not sure I want the side-effects, so don't want to go on tablets or jabs. Any thoughts? 

User
Posted 20 Apr 2023 at 17:50

Really interesting for me to keep an eye on your thread Superhoop. Glad you have been able to see someone and they’re going to give you treatment. Will they scan first or just going straight for RT.

My husband is in a similar position. His psa readings were undetectable <0.025 since operation Dec 2021. Then….

Feb 2023 - 0.029 

March 2023 - 0.044

Tests have been every 6 weeks since the rise so next one due 2nd May. I’ve pre booked an appointment for mid May with his surgeon and also have one just before with a local urologist, I guess similar decisions will have to be made then.

It’s a little different to your situation, although he had negative margins, it was in one of the lymph nodes (14 were removed). It was also suspected it had spread to pelvic bone when first diagnosed but second opinion and PSMA scan disagreed. So for my husband I think we would be silly to go ahead with RT without a scan first. HT is also a similar dilemma, he’s had 6 months of it before and I know he would prefer not to have again but we’re lucky to have it as an option if it is needed.

Best of luck with your decisions and treatment.

Elaine

User
Posted 20 Apr 2023 at 18:03
Thanks Elaine

They don't think they will do a PSMA scan because PSA is too low. This is the Marsden, so standard practice, I think. I'm waiting for the confirmation letter and then expect four weeks of radiation treatment after induction and a planning scan. I'm a wuss so fixating on whether getting the tattoos will be painful and whether I can ask them for some numbing cream just in case!

User
Posted 20 Apr 2023 at 18:03

Sounds like they're looking after you.   At your age you want the fix to last as long as possible so the extra is likely worth it. 

I've never wanted hormones as people write it changes who you are.  Calmer and no sex drive.  On the other hand I'd rather be that different person if I needed RT.  It's belt and braces but both playing a part and neither being as good by itself.

Another thing is it puts off urgency for RT if you have it before.  A negative being it uses up your hormone life if you ever get to that stage.

On balance I'd go for it. Regards Peter

 

User
Posted 20 Apr 2023 at 18:08

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
I'm a wuss so fixating on whether getting the tattoos will be painful and whether I can ask them for some numbing cream just in case!

The tattoos don’t hurt. It’s only a dot (well, three dots in total). I didn’t feel mine being done at all!

Chris

 

User
Posted 21 Apr 2023 at 00:05

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
Thanks Elaine

They don't think they will do a PSMA scan because PSA is too low. This is the Marsden, so standard practice, I think. I'm waiting for the confirmation letter and then expect four weeks of radiation treatment after induction and a planning scan. I'm a wuss so fixating on whether getting the tattoos will be painful and whether I can ask them for some numbing cream just in case!

Yes we may have the same problem with PSA being too low for a scan, I’m also a bit worried about waiting until his psa gets high enough for scanning though 🤦🏻‍♀️ I’m not sure where we will go for treatment, we live in Manchester but his surgeon works from the Marsden and another private hospital in London. It’s a bit of a commitment to spending many more weeks in London for RT if he needs it though. Maybe his next test will be back to undetectable and we won’t have to worry 🤷🏻‍♀️🤔 #unlikely

I hope the other posts have reassured you about the tattoos….I don’t know anything about them but have to say I’ve never seen anyone mention them being painful so I’m sure all will be fine. Best of luck and will keep checking your progress 👍

User
Posted 21 Apr 2023 at 18:27
Superhoop I had RT (37sessions to prostate&pelvis)with 3yrs Zoladex (plus nearly 2yrs on trial with abiraterone, enzalutimide, prednisolone). Firstly tatoo dots no problem whatsoever you dont even realise its done.

Personally, re HT, they suggest it for a reason, to starve the damaged cancer cells so they dont recover and I'd always go along with it. Side effects are a big nuisance and I had most of them, but its true that you do get over them given time. Think I had it in my mind that it wont last for ever, it could be worse etc and Knowing how it effected me I'do same again if necessary.

Peter

User
Posted 21 Apr 2023 at 19:54
I don't see why RT can't be given in Manchester. This treatment really is the province of an Oncologist rather than the surgeon.
Barry
User
Posted 21 Apr 2023 at 20:21
The Christie in Manchester is one of the UK’s leading specialist cancer centres. Seems daft to go to London for RT when there’s a place like that to have it on your doorstep! As Barry says, RT will be looked after by an oncologist, not your urologist.

Cheers,

Chris

User
Posted 21 Apr 2023 at 22:10

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
I've never wanted hormones as people write it changes who you are. Calmer and no sex drive

I'll add my voice to those favouring HT though now, about 5 months post finishing 21 months of Zoladex, I'm actually much calmer than I was during "the experience". Even if you don't want to go through 3 years of ADT anything from 12 months up is going to help. Biggest problem for me during ADT was lack of sleep, which is not good for the head if it seriously limits your shut eye nearly every day ... not good for the brain cells!

Don't worry about the tatts, they're painless :-)

Jules

User
Posted 27 Apr 2023 at 17:15
I attended the pre-RT presentation at the Marsden this morning and picked up my enemas (oh joy). Planning scan is scheduled for next Wednesday, with the likelihood of treatment commencing a couple of weeks on from that. So with any luck, I'll have finished this unwelcome phase in June.
User
Posted 27 Apr 2023 at 17:54

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
The Christie in Manchester is one of the UK’s leading specialist cancer centres. Seems daft to go to London for RT when there’s a place like that to have it on your doorstep! As Barry says, RT will be looked after by an oncologist, not your urologist.

Cheers,

Chris

Yes I know it can be done in Manchester and if needed probably will be. When we were under the oncologist previously we didn’t really gel if that makes sense….for me it’s so important to have a good relationship and trust in your doctor….I know some would say just as long as they do a good job but for us it’s much more than that….we want to feel like someone is really on our side. Will wait and see what happens anyway….we’ve got used to being in London. 

User
Posted 27 Apr 2023 at 18:19
Superhoop- if the enemas you have are same as mine were, mini enemas (i.e. nothing like a full cleansing of bowel thing) they really arent a problem at all. I had my RT at Clatterbridge on Wirral and the policy there is to "take" the enema when get to the unit.

Peter

User
Posted 27 Apr 2023 at 18:28
I hope so! They are just aimed at clearing the rectum.
User
Posted 27 Apr 2023 at 18:28

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
I attended the pre-RT presentation at the Marsden this morning and picked up my enemas (oh joy). Planning scan is scheduled for next Wednesday, with the likelihood of treatment commencing a couple of weeks on from that. So with any luck, I'll have finished this unwelcome phase in June.

Wishing you the best of luck with your treatment superhoop….will hopefully all be a distant memory soon x

User
Posted 03 May 2023 at 23:02
I had my planning scan today. Managed to hold on long enough after drinking the water to emerge unscathed. Despite my best efforts to fart it all out, I was a little gassy, but apparently within tolerable limits. You were all right - the tattoos didn't hurt at all. Now onto the start of radiotherapy on 22 May.
User
Posted 22 Jun 2023 at 15:30
I finished 20 sessions of salvage RT (without HT) on Tuesday at the Marsden. The first three weeks were a breeze, but I started having bowel problems in the final week. The excellent care team told me that this was not unexpected but it should settle down in coming weeks. Now we wait. I have a check-in in August and then another PSA test in December.
 
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