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User
Posted 22 May 2023 at 19:05

Hello all.

2016 I had Brachytherapy and my levels seemed good, until a few months ago. They have risen to 2.8 and after Petscan and MRI it appears the cancer is back.

Long story short.  I've been offered HT or

Complete removal, which seems out of the question, as it could leave me incontinent.

I'm 64 and reasonably active with regular exercise.

My question is and I'm really concerned, which would be best as I've been reading that HT could cause other problems, like stroke and heart disease.  I know it may well sound that, surely stopping the cancer should be my first concern, but for some reason I seem more worried about having heart attack or stroke.

BR

 

Martin

User
Posted 23 May 2023 at 00:21

Hi Martin,

You've had PET scan and while you haven't been specific I'm guessing that your cancer is still within the prostate?

HT only serves to keep cancer in a holding pattern and does nothing to remove cancer. If you have a pre-existing heart condition you'd need to get advice from your Dr as to whether HT could cause complications but for the most it is low risk, particularly when compared to cancer.

Aside from the known side effects, removal will be ok so long as there's no indication that the cancer has spread outside the capsule or into the seminal vesicles. This might be a situation where HIFU could be used but somebody like Old Barry would be better qualified to comment on that.

I don't know if you have more details than you've given us in your post but your choices at this stage are critical and more information is needed here to help with suggestions as to which way to go next.

Jules

 

 

 

Edited by member 23 May 2023 at 00:25  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 23 May 2023 at 01:09

Hello Martin,

Sorry you find like many men your original treatment did not permanently put an end to your cancer. Unfortunately, other than what you have told us we don't know details of you diagnosis or histology. It seems highly likely to me that because you had brachytherapy (Profile doesn't say in combination with EBRT), that your PCa was thought to be confined to your Prostate, although one can never be certain of this. That you have now been offered a Prostatectomy suggests it is still thought that your cancer is most likely contained within your Prostate. If this is correct, it may be possible alternatively to treat you with one of the forms of Focal Therapy. There are other types but the most used in the UK is HIFU for suitable men. In some situations Cryotherapy can be more suitable. There are also other forms of Focal Therapy too. If you would like to consider this you should speak with Focal Expert who will be in the best position. He/she will need full details of your diagnosis scans and general histology and if you are accepted may well want to do further scans etc.

I was in a somewhat similar position to you but having failed EBRT rather than Brachytherapy. I was referred by the Royal Marsden to UCLH for possible HIFU. UCLH are the UK leaders in Focal Therapy although there are a few other places in the UK now doing the procedure, some trained by UCLH. Not wishing to have permanent incontinence with salvage Prostatectomy, something I was told was highly likely, and wanting to avoid HT, I agreed to HIFU, which I had in 2015. Unfortunately, my PSA after dropping initially, began to slowly increase and I had a second HIFU in December 2021. A high quality scan a year on didn't show any cancer and my PSA has been low and stable since. I have been told I am in remission, although I know PCa can come back with any treatment regardless. Side effects are far milder with Focal Therapy which as in my case is usually repeatable. Where it is too big an ask for Focal Therapy to eradicate the cancer it can usually be followed by Prostatectomy, although this is going to be a more difficult operation where RT was previously given.

I have never advocated a man have a particular form of treatment, They all have pros and cons, but what I can say is that to me it makes sense to consider all treatments, even though it may be necessary to go to a different hospital, as not all hospitals can offer all treatments.

Edited by member 23 May 2023 at 01:15  | Reason: Not specified

Barry
User
Posted 23 May 2023 at 01:41
I think that whatever you have been reading about HT has muddied the waters. The risk of heart attack or stroke is tiny - about 15,000 men per year start HT and while some are on it for only 6 months / 18 months / 3 years, we have men on here who have been on it for 15 - 20 years. I have never seen us lose a member due to heart attack or stroke!
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 23 May 2023 at 11:43

Some scans are better than others or are better in some ways than others. It may be that your MRI was not a multi parametric one for instance, Also, not everybody draws the same conclusion from examining scans as I have found. Success of a Prostatectomy is judged by how successful surgery was in eradicating the cancer rather than the degree of side effects of which various levels of incontinence for various times up to permanent is concerned. Of course, the patient may look look at this differently and not consider his operation was a success if he has to wear pads long term or is left with Erectile Disfunction that even chemicals and pumps will not necessarily overcome.

I agree with Lyn's post about HT but the side effects of HT can be quite debilitating among other things for some men and many of us try to avoid it or get the time on it reduced if possible. (Suggest you research it). As we often recommend to new members, the 'Tool Kit' gives good basic information about PCa and various treatments :- https://shop.prostatecanceruk.org//our-publications/all-publications/tool-kit?limit=100

 

Edited by member 23 May 2023 at 11:44  | Reason: to highlight link

Barry
User
Posted 23 May 2023 at 11:47
Reactions to HT differ greatly. I was on it for 18 months and didn't find it too bad at all.

Best wishes,

Chris

User
Posted 23 May 2023 at 22:24

Martin,

your urology team has referred you on to an oncologist, so at this stage your actual treatment would seem to be "pending", with HT being used only to keep the status quo with your cancer. If, and there's no sign of this in what you've said, your cancer is untreatable, then HT would be used as part of a long term plan to slow the progress of your cancer.

After they've assessed your PCa, you might be given a choice as to whether you can have RT with HT or a prostatectomy, or you might be told which option they are willing to give you.

Here in Australia, where I've been treated, urology deals with prostatectomies and oncology with RT. HT is usually used with RT but I'm getting a bit ahead of things here. When you get to speak to Oncology your options should be better defined.

Jules

Edited by member 24 May 2023 at 01:46  | Reason: Not specified

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User
Posted 23 May 2023 at 00:21

Hi Martin,

You've had PET scan and while you haven't been specific I'm guessing that your cancer is still within the prostate?

HT only serves to keep cancer in a holding pattern and does nothing to remove cancer. If you have a pre-existing heart condition you'd need to get advice from your Dr as to whether HT could cause complications but for the most it is low risk, particularly when compared to cancer.

Aside from the known side effects, removal will be ok so long as there's no indication that the cancer has spread outside the capsule or into the seminal vesicles. This might be a situation where HIFU could be used but somebody like Old Barry would be better qualified to comment on that.

I don't know if you have more details than you've given us in your post but your choices at this stage are critical and more information is needed here to help with suggestions as to which way to go next.

Jules

 

 

 

Edited by member 23 May 2023 at 00:25  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 23 May 2023 at 01:09

Hello Martin,

Sorry you find like many men your original treatment did not permanently put an end to your cancer. Unfortunately, other than what you have told us we don't know details of you diagnosis or histology. It seems highly likely to me that because you had brachytherapy (Profile doesn't say in combination with EBRT), that your PCa was thought to be confined to your Prostate, although one can never be certain of this. That you have now been offered a Prostatectomy suggests it is still thought that your cancer is most likely contained within your Prostate. If this is correct, it may be possible alternatively to treat you with one of the forms of Focal Therapy. There are other types but the most used in the UK is HIFU for suitable men. In some situations Cryotherapy can be more suitable. There are also other forms of Focal Therapy too. If you would like to consider this you should speak with Focal Expert who will be in the best position. He/she will need full details of your diagnosis scans and general histology and if you are accepted may well want to do further scans etc.

I was in a somewhat similar position to you but having failed EBRT rather than Brachytherapy. I was referred by the Royal Marsden to UCLH for possible HIFU. UCLH are the UK leaders in Focal Therapy although there are a few other places in the UK now doing the procedure, some trained by UCLH. Not wishing to have permanent incontinence with salvage Prostatectomy, something I was told was highly likely, and wanting to avoid HT, I agreed to HIFU, which I had in 2015. Unfortunately, my PSA after dropping initially, began to slowly increase and I had a second HIFU in December 2021. A high quality scan a year on didn't show any cancer and my PSA has been low and stable since. I have been told I am in remission, although I know PCa can come back with any treatment regardless. Side effects are far milder with Focal Therapy which as in my case is usually repeatable. Where it is too big an ask for Focal Therapy to eradicate the cancer it can usually be followed by Prostatectomy, although this is going to be a more difficult operation where RT was previously given.

I have never advocated a man have a particular form of treatment, They all have pros and cons, but what I can say is that to me it makes sense to consider all treatments, even though it may be necessary to go to a different hospital, as not all hospitals can offer all treatments.

Edited by member 23 May 2023 at 01:15  | Reason: Not specified

Barry
User
Posted 23 May 2023 at 01:41
I think that whatever you have been reading about HT has muddied the waters. The risk of heart attack or stroke is tiny - about 15,000 men per year start HT and while some are on it for only 6 months / 18 months / 3 years, we have men on here who have been on it for 15 - 20 years. I have never seen us lose a member due to heart attack or stroke!
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 23 May 2023 at 08:43

Thanks all for your help and replies.

Here is the what was written from the Urology Department.

We performed an MRI scan, which did not demonstrate any definitive evidence of recurrence within the prostate gland, however, there was a suspicious focus anterorlateral to the urethra.  The Choline PET-CT scan identified focal choline uptake in the apical right prostate in keeping with local disease recurrence and an indeterminate right obturator lymph node.

These were reviewed in the Prostate Multidisciplinary Team and the plan is to refer to Oncology.

 

I then had an appointment to discuss the plan and it was felt the HT was my better option at this stage, as removal of the Prostate Glad could(if not successful)leave me incontinent.

Martin

User
Posted 23 May 2023 at 11:43

Some scans are better than others or are better in some ways than others. It may be that your MRI was not a multi parametric one for instance, Also, not everybody draws the same conclusion from examining scans as I have found. Success of a Prostatectomy is judged by how successful surgery was in eradicating the cancer rather than the degree of side effects of which various levels of incontinence for various times up to permanent is concerned. Of course, the patient may look look at this differently and not consider his operation was a success if he has to wear pads long term or is left with Erectile Disfunction that even chemicals and pumps will not necessarily overcome.

I agree with Lyn's post about HT but the side effects of HT can be quite debilitating among other things for some men and many of us try to avoid it or get the time on it reduced if possible. (Suggest you research it). As we often recommend to new members, the 'Tool Kit' gives good basic information about PCa and various treatments :- https://shop.prostatecanceruk.org//our-publications/all-publications/tool-kit?limit=100

 

Edited by member 23 May 2023 at 11:44  | Reason: to highlight link

Barry
User
Posted 23 May 2023 at 11:47
Reactions to HT differ greatly. I was on it for 18 months and didn't find it too bad at all.

Best wishes,

Chris

User
Posted 23 May 2023 at 12:00

Thanks Barry.

very useful information and I'm also looking at Prostatectomy in a different way after your explanation.

Part of my problem is the fact that I'm also the main carer for my wife who has Amyloidosis AL, my decision making to treatment always had that in my mind.

Life can have many twists and turns, one minute you are up the next down, but some how a smile can make all the difference, and so can sheading the odd tear. 

Martin

User
Posted 23 May 2023 at 16:57

Thanks for replying.

The one question I will be asking and maybe you might have the answer and that is, if for some reason the HT is not right for me, or I get fed up with taking the Hormone can I then have Prostatectomy and take the chance of being incontinent. 

Regards

Martin

User
Posted 23 May 2023 at 18:34

Chris,

Can I take it that now you have finished with the HT you won't need to go on it again, unless of course your numbers start to rise. 

Martin

User
Posted 23 May 2023 at 22:24

Martin,

your urology team has referred you on to an oncologist, so at this stage your actual treatment would seem to be "pending", with HT being used only to keep the status quo with your cancer. If, and there's no sign of this in what you've said, your cancer is untreatable, then HT would be used as part of a long term plan to slow the progress of your cancer.

After they've assessed your PCa, you might be given a choice as to whether you can have RT with HT or a prostatectomy, or you might be told which option they are willing to give you.

Here in Australia, where I've been treated, urology deals with prostatectomies and oncology with RT. HT is usually used with RT but I'm getting a bit ahead of things here. When you get to speak to Oncology your options should be better defined.

Jules

Edited by member 24 May 2023 at 01:46  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 25 May 2023 at 12:12

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
I think that whatever you have been reading about HT has muddied the waters. The risk of heart attack or stroke is tiny - about 15,000 men per year start HT and while some are on it for only 6 months / 18 months / 3 years, we have men on here who have been on it for 15 - 20 years. I have never seen us lose a member due to heart attack or stroke!

Only one problem there, Lynn - they would probably not have been able to post this information in their sad demise ! 😅
Sorry!

6 month Blood test for me this Saturday - at the local Quacks! - they have finally got a phlobotamyst  (Spell checker on the blink!)
Bob

 

User
Posted 25 May 2023 at 18:29

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

Chris,

Can I take it that now you have finished with the HT you won't need to go on it again, unless of course your numbers start to rise. 

Martin

Yes, I started HT in Aug 1018, had my RT in Feb/Mar 2019, and stopped HT in Aug 2020. Four years on from RT and, touch wood, everything seems fine.

Best wishes,

Chris

 

User
Posted 25 May 2023 at 19:32

Thanks Chris,

Good to hear all and may everything continue to be fine.

Martin

User
Posted 01 Jun 2023 at 16:24

Thanks to all for your replies.

I have a little more of an understanding of what I'm trying to decide on(subject to oncology telephone call Wednesday 7th June).

As I had Brachtherapy in 2016 I can't have any more radiotherapy treatment.

If I went for Prostatectomy as there is very little margin, chances are I will almost be left incontinent.

There is also lymph node close by the urethra and if this happens to be cancerous then I might still be going on HT to treat that?

The other option to give me quality of life(this was oncology words, not mine) Would to go on to HT for the rest of my life.

I hope the above makes sense. I'm not the best at putting words onto paper.

Martin

 

User
Posted 01 Jun 2023 at 17:11
Quote:
Quote:

Only one problem there, Lynn - they would probably not have been able to post this information in their sad demise ! 😅
Sorry!

 

No but often when a member dies suddenly, a relative or friend will post here to let us know. When a man is going through the end stages, he will sometimes keep us all updated as much as he can. Plus quite a lot of members also keep in touch via the various support groups and Facebook pages so we do hear about the death of regular / intermittent posters one way or another.

It doesn't always work that way - I am very worried about Bollinge if anyone has heard anything? 

 

Edited by member 01 Jun 2023 at 17:12  | Reason: Not specified

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

 
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