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PSA advice appreciated.

User
Posted 29 Apr 2024 at 12:50

Hi all,

Would appreciate some advice and reassurance if possible on a PSA trend. I’m G9 with local spread. 

My PSA dropped from a presenting 31 in Dec 2023 to 1.9 in Feb 2024 on Bical and Zoladex. After 1 session of chemo it dropped to 0.75 early April. After my second chemo session it’s 0.76 on 25th May last Thursday.

Should I be concerned that it’s static? I was hoping it would continue to decrease. Might be hard to say but is it likely the 4 remaining chemo sessions may reduce it further? Is 0.76 an acceptable PSA on hormone and chemo? What range is considered acceptable on my current treatment? 

I have radiotherapy planned a month after my chemo finishes in August with ‘curative/radical’ intent although not to be conflated with ‘curable’ given my staging. Is it possible for radiotherapy to drop the PSA further potentially to undetectable? Appreciate this is difficult to know.

Thanks in advance. Just a little thrown as I expected the PSA to have dropped again. 

 

User
Posted 29 Apr 2024 at 13:47

It's not uncommon for PSA to go up during the first 3 chemo sessions. As Lyn has said in the past, think of it as the cancer cells screaming as they die. Hopefully it will drop after that.

User
Posted 29 Apr 2024 at 12:50

Hi all,

Would appreciate some advice and reassurance if possible on a PSA trend. I’m G9 with local spread. 

My PSA dropped from a presenting 31 in Dec 2023 to 1.9 in Feb 2024 on Bical and Zoladex. After 1 session of chemo it dropped to 0.75 early April. After my second chemo session it’s 0.76 on 25th May last Thursday.

Should I be concerned that it’s static? I was hoping it would continue to decrease. Might be hard to say but is it likely the 4 remaining chemo sessions may reduce it further? Is 0.76 an acceptable PSA on hormone and chemo? What range is considered acceptable on my current treatment? 

I have radiotherapy planned a month after my chemo finishes in August with ‘curative/radical’ intent although not to be conflated with ‘curable’ given my staging. Is it possible for radiotherapy to drop the PSA further potentially to undetectable? Appreciate this is difficult to know.

Thanks in advance. Just a little thrown as I expected the PSA to have dropped again. 

 

User
Posted 29 Apr 2024 at 18:04

I only experienced HT/RT as my secondary treatment. If the RT does its job then yes it will lower PSA but the process is not immediate. It takes time for the radiation damaged cancer cells to die and the damage to their DNA stops them dividing (reproducing). However what is going on will be masked by the hormone therapy. If you on a curative path then you will eventually stop HT. That when you will start to see what the Chemo and RT has achieved. As you still have a prostate it will still produce PSA, so you will never have an undetectable PSA.

Edited by member 29 Apr 2024 at 18:37  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 30 Apr 2024 at 11:51

Hi Darren.

Like you, I was diagnosed as G9 with locally advanced PC. My presenting PSA was 18 up from <3 six months previously. Both my dad and elder brother died from the disease so I was considered at high risk. I was put on HT straight away and had six cycles of chemo soon after. Following that I had 37 fractions of RT. After the chemo and RT ended my PSA was down to <0.5, likewise my testosterone. A PET scan showed that my PC had shrunk considerably.

I am continuing on the HT (Zoladex) but most recently, while my testosterone has stayed minimal, my PSA has risen, doubling every few months which is concerning. The latest reading was 3.8. I am due for another PET scan this week to see if that reveals the cause of this rise. I will be seeing my oncologist a few weeks after that to learn the results.

So, from my experience, it would seem that PSA can rise following treatment. Right now I do not know the cause or implications of this. I will check back in with this thread once I know more.

Best wishes for a drop in your next PSA test.

User
Posted 01 May 2024 at 08:19

Hi Darren,

I completed my chemo in late spring 2022 and my 37 fractions of RT were over by Christmas 2022. Then, in 2023 at my 3-month review, my PSA was very low but by my next reviews, it had doubled and then doubled again. Two months ago it was 3.08. All this time my testosterone has remained low at <0.05.

Understandably my oncologist wants to review the result of my PET scans due later this week before she decides on treatment. I am hoping it's some kind of blip rather than my PC reasserting itself. When I last met with my oncologist she reassured me that there are a number of treatment options remaining.

I will know more towards the end of this month and check in back here.

User
Posted 26 May 2024 at 10:56
Just checking back in with this thread. I saw my clinical oncologist to review my latest PET scans and the reason for the sharp and unexpected rise in my PSA is that there is an 'uptake' in my PC. Not the news I wanted to hear but at least it's an explanation. The next step for me is that I have been referred back to my medical oncologist and it probably means a new medication regime. There was also an acceptance that the joint pain I have been suffering is probably 'treatment-related'.
User
Posted 29 May 2024 at 23:17

Darren, wishing for good results for you.

User
Posted 07 Jun 2024 at 11:58

Update regarding my investigations. Saw my Oncologist last Friday and PSA dropped back to 0.75. CT and bone scan both showing no new spread and now undetectable pelvic lymph nodes. The two ‘bone blob’ mets in my pelvis reported as stable. 

It seems the PSA rise as Andy mentions in this thread is likely related to a chemo spike commonly seen after 3rd/4th cycle. 

For anyone reading this thread in a similar position with health anxiety around PSA rise during chemo I hope this gives some hope that it doesn’t have to be related to the dreaded ‘spread’.

I’m not sure how you reduce the worry other than staying busy, distraction is good whilst waiting for results and don’t go on Google. I found actually talking about it to much unhelpful as it led to rumination but equally I think there’s a balance as talking it through is helpful?! 

Hope the thread helps others. Just my experience of PSA stress. 

 

 

User
Posted 25 Jun 2024 at 11:06
Just to update my contribution to this thread, yesterday my clinical oncologist handed me back to my medical oncologist for the next phase of my treatment. As my PSA has continued to increase (it currently stands at 6.97, up from 3.83 in two months), my Zoladex is to continue indefinitely, and I will be staring Apalutemide next month. I have just started on Medroxyprogesterone to try and get the worst of the Zoladex side effects under control before starting the Apalutemide.

The consensus is that we are no longer trying to cure my PC, but to prolong my life. Not the best news I have ever received, but after talking at length to my oncologist, I remain relatively upbeat as any prolongation may extend to a decade or more. I am currently 77 and symptom free.

On the plus side, following extensive tests there is no trace of distant mets and my PC remains advanced but localised. The pain in my legs continues to baffle, with an ultrasound scan and an appointment with a podiatrist in the pipeline.

User
Posted 04 Jul 2024 at 08:36

Thanks for your good wishes, Darren. My father and brother both died from PC, so I consider it the family curse. Despite life's attempts to bring me down, I remain optimistic.

My good wishes to you in your struggle with the disease.

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User
Posted 29 Apr 2024 at 13:47

It's not uncommon for PSA to go up during the first 3 chemo sessions. As Lyn has said in the past, think of it as the cancer cells screaming as they die. Hopefully it will drop after that.

User
Posted 29 Apr 2024 at 14:25

Love this Andy! What a great way to put it cancer cells screaming as they die! Thanks for this 😀

User
Posted 29 Apr 2024 at 18:04

I only experienced HT/RT as my secondary treatment. If the RT does its job then yes it will lower PSA but the process is not immediate. It takes time for the radiation damaged cancer cells to die and the damage to their DNA stops them dividing (reproducing). However what is going on will be masked by the hormone therapy. If you on a curative path then you will eventually stop HT. That when you will start to see what the Chemo and RT has achieved. As you still have a prostate it will still produce PSA, so you will never have an undetectable PSA.

Edited by member 29 Apr 2024 at 18:37  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 29 Apr 2024 at 22:05

Chris thanks for the reply. Yes makes sense with the slower PSA changes with RT. Thanks again.

User
Posted 30 Apr 2024 at 11:51

Hi Darren.

Like you, I was diagnosed as G9 with locally advanced PC. My presenting PSA was 18 up from <3 six months previously. Both my dad and elder brother died from the disease so I was considered at high risk. I was put on HT straight away and had six cycles of chemo soon after. Following that I had 37 fractions of RT. After the chemo and RT ended my PSA was down to <0.5, likewise my testosterone. A PET scan showed that my PC had shrunk considerably.

I am continuing on the HT (Zoladex) but most recently, while my testosterone has stayed minimal, my PSA has risen, doubling every few months which is concerning. The latest reading was 3.8. I am due for another PET scan this week to see if that reveals the cause of this rise. I will be seeing my oncologist a few weeks after that to learn the results.

So, from my experience, it would seem that PSA can rise following treatment. Right now I do not know the cause or implications of this. I will check back in with this thread once I know more.

Best wishes for a drop in your next PSA test.

User
Posted 30 Apr 2024 at 19:48

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the best wishes. Do you mind if I ask the timeframes around your treatment and rising PSA? How soon after RT did your PSA increase? 

Sorry to hear yours is on the rise and hopefully the scan shows no new mets sites. I’d be interested to know the outcome. Fingers crossed for you. 

 

User
Posted 01 May 2024 at 08:19

Hi Darren,

I completed my chemo in late spring 2022 and my 37 fractions of RT were over by Christmas 2022. Then, in 2023 at my 3-month review, my PSA was very low but by my next reviews, it had doubled and then doubled again. Two months ago it was 3.08. All this time my testosterone has remained low at <0.05.

Understandably my oncologist wants to review the result of my PET scans due later this week before she decides on treatment. I am hoping it's some kind of blip rather than my PC reasserting itself. When I last met with my oncologist she reassured me that there are a number of treatment options remaining.

I will know more towards the end of this month and check in back here.

User
Posted 15 May 2024 at 15:44

Thought I would update on the PSA. Inbetween chemo session 2 and 3 my PSA increased from 0.76 to 1.5. The day of my bloods I had my 4th Prostap injection. I’d also had a 2 week chemo break meaning a 5 week interval between 2nd and 3rd cycles due to now fully resolved neutropenia. 

My Oncologist has arranged a CT next week and repeat PSA x 2 spaced 10 days apart. His feelings were that the rise is alarming which has obviously worried me. I countered this with all the mitigating factors above which may have spiked the PSA without any new spread? He agreed there may be no spread and chemo may still be effective but that if there is spread he will switch to RT and finish the chemo early. 

So am in that period of waiting on tests check response to treatment to date and to determine the treatment plan going forwards. I think other than the initial diagnosis these are the most challenging periods to be in. It’s the unknown. Anyway on the ups I played tennis for an hour today in the sun! 

User
Posted 26 May 2024 at 10:56
Just checking back in with this thread. I saw my clinical oncologist to review my latest PET scans and the reason for the sharp and unexpected rise in my PSA is that there is an 'uptake' in my PC. Not the news I wanted to hear but at least it's an explanation. The next step for me is that I have been referred back to my medical oncologist and it probably means a new medication regime. There was also an acceptance that the joint pain I have been suffering is probably 'treatment-related'.
User
Posted 29 May 2024 at 19:07

Sorry to hear that. An I right in thinking no new spread outside the prostate although uptake within it? I do hope no new spread and hope a change in medication will put the brakes back on and lower the PSA. Would be interesting to hear what medication you’re changed to? 

I had a CT with contrast last week to check on my rising PSA and a bone scan due next week. See the Oncologist on Friday where I’ll be told if my last two PSA results continue to rise or have reduced following my 3rd chemo session. Managing to just put this all in the background and not ruminate on it all. 

Have found myself now giving the stock answer of ‘I’m fine nothing new to report’ to friends and family other than my wife when they enquire and avoid mentioning all the imaging suspecting spread. Helps not having to deal and manage others emotions.

I think there is perhaps a selfish element required in protecting ourselves when we’re feeling positive and not wanting to have others transfer their subconscious or inadvertent negativity onto us. Not their fault but it happens.

Will update again shortly.  

 

 

User
Posted 29 May 2024 at 23:17

Darren, wishing for good results for you.

User
Posted 30 May 2024 at 07:51

Hi Darren,

My clinical oncologist showed me my PET scans (they would be fascinating if it was not cancer and was not me) and it seems that most of my prostate is relatively clear - big but here - but the uptake is outside, near the wall of my rectum. Either there is enough PC left in my prostate or the growth next door is sufficient to raise my PSA. When I had my radiotherapy my oncologist said that I received less radiation there than the prostate to minimize the risk of damage. I am now waiting for a colonoscopy and to see my medical oncologist to learn what my new medication regime will be. For now, I must continue with Zoladex for at least the full three years. I will check in again here once I know more.

My stock answer to friends and family when inquiring about my PC is 'You know, good days, bad days'.

My very best wishes to you and I hope that you receive some encouraging news soon.

 

User
Posted 30 May 2024 at 23:07

Sorry to hear the uptake is outside the prostate. I do hope the new pending treatment plan firmly halts any advance and reduces your PSA.

The imaging is fascinating. I’m a Physiotherapist  by background and look at lots of imaging although outside the field of cancer. I have my PET PSMA and have scrutinised it seeing the hot spots/ uptake in the bone and lymph nodes. Quite surreal seeing your pathology face to face as it were. It is incredible to think that the PET PSMA wasn’t available not all that long ago to us PC patients.

Thanks for your updates and again I wish you well for your investigations and planning. 

User
Posted 07 Jun 2024 at 11:58

Update regarding my investigations. Saw my Oncologist last Friday and PSA dropped back to 0.75. CT and bone scan both showing no new spread and now undetectable pelvic lymph nodes. The two ‘bone blob’ mets in my pelvis reported as stable. 

It seems the PSA rise as Andy mentions in this thread is likely related to a chemo spike commonly seen after 3rd/4th cycle. 

For anyone reading this thread in a similar position with health anxiety around PSA rise during chemo I hope this gives some hope that it doesn’t have to be related to the dreaded ‘spread’.

I’m not sure how you reduce the worry other than staying busy, distraction is good whilst waiting for results and don’t go on Google. I found actually talking about it to much unhelpful as it led to rumination but equally I think there’s a balance as talking it through is helpful?! 

Hope the thread helps others. Just my experience of PSA stress. 

 

 

User
Posted 25 Jun 2024 at 11:06
Just to update my contribution to this thread, yesterday my clinical oncologist handed me back to my medical oncologist for the next phase of my treatment. As my PSA has continued to increase (it currently stands at 6.97, up from 3.83 in two months), my Zoladex is to continue indefinitely, and I will be staring Apalutemide next month. I have just started on Medroxyprogesterone to try and get the worst of the Zoladex side effects under control before starting the Apalutemide.

The consensus is that we are no longer trying to cure my PC, but to prolong my life. Not the best news I have ever received, but after talking at length to my oncologist, I remain relatively upbeat as any prolongation may extend to a decade or more. I am currently 77 and symptom free.

On the plus side, following extensive tests there is no trace of distant mets and my PC remains advanced but localised. The pain in my legs continues to baffle, with an ultrasound scan and an appointment with a podiatrist in the pipeline.

User
Posted 03 Jul 2024 at 22:36

Really good to hear that there is no distant spread. Hopefully the 2nd gen hormone therapy will keep it all at bay for many years to come and you remain asymptomatic. Wishing you all the very best. 

User
Posted 04 Jul 2024 at 08:36

Thanks for your good wishes, Darren. My father and brother both died from PC, so I consider it the family curse. Despite life's attempts to bring me down, I remain optimistic.

My good wishes to you in your struggle with the disease.

 
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