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LDR Brachytherapy - 1 rollercoaster year later!

User
Posted 06 Jun 2024 at 19:38

I had LDR BT in May 2023 as detailed in this thread and my bio.

I wasn't thrilled by my initial 4 month PSA result of 2.12 (down from 7.07 pre procedure) but consultant seemed perfectly happy with it.

My 8 month result in January ‘24 result was even less encouraging at 3.14 but again consultant said, ‘don’t panic’ it could be (probably be?) PSA ‘bounce’ which is quite common in younger men. (I was 48 at time of procedure, and 49 by then).

At this point, I decided for the sake of my sanity that I needed to take a step back from the forums and just constantly thinking about PCa in general because I suspected the rollercoaster had started.

Now though, the rollercoaster is on it's third inversion -  I’ve just had my 12 month result and consultation today. PSA is up again - now to 4.64 which is a rise of 2.52 on my post procedure nadir.

What a shame because otherwise, life has been tickety-boo and any early adverse side effects to the BT have long since disappeared….

I had hoped my 2.12 nadir was an ‘initial’/pre bounce nadir and not my ‘final’ nadir – now I’m beginning to think it may have been my final nadir and I’m already +2.52 eight months later 😔

The consultant said today that it was still possibly a ‘bounce’ and we couldn’t be sure but he’s decided to bring my next PSA test forward to 3 months instead of 4. He also said that if that was also a rise, it would be 3 consecutive rises and that would trigger a PSMA PET scan and MRI.

He said the MRI never usually showed anything except the seeds, so regardless of the result, the scans would almost inevitably be followed by a biopsy which would hopefully show whether any remaining cancer cells had been radiation affected (and would eventually die) or not.

Having had a few hours to ponder, I’m wondering whether I should have asked whether it was possible to have the PET scan now to rule out spread and at least ‘settle’ me in that respect? Equally, I’m not sure if there’s a reason why having the PET scan now would be too soon?

I’m not that keen to rush into an MRI and subsequent biopsy mainly because (a) I hate the biopsies 😂 and (b) I’m clinging, probably beyond hope, that this is indeed a bounce and not a rise. 😬

I started properly reading around the ‘bounce’ phenomenon after January’s PSA results but as I said above, pretty quickly buried my head in the sand fearing the worst but willing myself to remain optimistic. I’ve revisited some of those bookmarked papers and studies this afternoon and it appears that bounce is not as common as I hoped but when it does occur, it can take quite some time to come back down (often more than 12 months post rise after initial nadir?) and I wonder whether moving to 3 monthly PSA tests has already predetermined the next result to be a rise whether it’s failure or bounce?

I have a ton of respect and confidence in my consultant but with time to think after the consultation, I’d still be grateful to hear your opinions on bounce and timing of PET scan, MRI and biopsy if you have any experience or knowledge.

Thanks!

Paul

User
Posted 20 Jun 2024 at 16:30
So by way of an update, my consultant agreed to getting a PSMA PET which I had on Monday and I've just had the follow up with him - fortunately the scan hasn't picked up anything outside the prostate.

So, although it's still too early to tell categorically (is there ever a categoric?) at least it's still possible that I could be one of the minority of people who have LDR Brachy and go on to experience this 'bounce' phenomenon.

Obviously it would be more reassuring to just see a straightforward downward trajectory but I'm not losing hope at this stage - bounce can definitely occur, especially in younger men so I'm keeping fingers (and everything else) crossed!

Next PSA September and weirdly I'm not expecting it to fall by then so will probably remain wondering 'is it or isn't it'? Will cross that bridge when I come to it!

User
Posted 09 Aug 2024 at 22:34
Hey Tom!

I'm still very hopeful that what you and I are experiencing is indeed bounce. It's a definite 'thing' and from my understanding, can continue to be a 'thing' anytime up to and during the first few years after the procedure.

I'd say the timing/trend of your results were more typical of the bounce phenomenon than mine but I'm definitely one of the (even) younger ones to opt for Brachy and that could very well be a factor affecting my results so I'm determined not to hit the panic button yet!

Let's see how this rollercoaster rolls hey?🤞

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User
Posted 07 Jun 2024 at 10:23

Hi Paul

I don't have an opinion on the PSA bounce, but I've also has LDR Brachytherapy, so I too would be interested in opinions here. Bumping to the top.

I'm also wondering what purpose a Biopsy would serve right now ? They already know you had cancer and it's Gleason grade. 

I would be pushing for a PSMA PET scan soonest, which will give a cutting edge technology picture of what exactly is going on.

User
Posted 07 Jun 2024 at 12:04
Thanks Goose,

Having slept on it, the first thing I did this morning was send a message to the consultant asking whether we could do the PSMA PET scan asap - let's see if he agrees!

As for the talk of a biopsy, I understood it's to see if they can tell whether any remaining cancer cells have been unaffected by the radiation - I guess then they could start talking salvage RP or HT/chemo? Not sure exactly what the options would be offered if the BT has actually failed at the prostate. But yes, talk of biopsies again after only 12 months was unexpected :(

User
Posted 20 Jun 2024 at 16:30
So by way of an update, my consultant agreed to getting a PSMA PET which I had on Monday and I've just had the follow up with him - fortunately the scan hasn't picked up anything outside the prostate.

So, although it's still too early to tell categorically (is there ever a categoric?) at least it's still possible that I could be one of the minority of people who have LDR Brachy and go on to experience this 'bounce' phenomenon.

Obviously it would be more reassuring to just see a straightforward downward trajectory but I'm not losing hope at this stage - bounce can definitely occur, especially in younger men so I'm keeping fingers (and everything else) crossed!

Next PSA September and weirdly I'm not expecting it to fall by then so will probably remain wondering 'is it or isn't it'? Will cross that bridge when I come to it!

User
Posted 20 Jun 2024 at 16:51
Good luck with it all Stan

Has the consultant mentioned whether RP is available to you?

I know some people have mentioned that it can be more complex post brachy but I think that was related to HDR but it does sound as though that might be a worthwhile option to consider if it's all still contained.

Best of luck for the next PSA though!

User
Posted 21 Jun 2024 at 08:47

Thanks Steve - we're not yet at the point where we've discussed salvage treatment because as it stands, the treatment hasn't definitely failed.

Hopefully that's the way it stays 🤞 but depending on results, more options might start to enter the conversation at the next PSA test in September. 🤷‍♂️

It's a funny old journey but at the moment I'm taking reassurance from the PSMA PET and hoping the PSA results start moving in the right direction commensurate with bounce behaviour in the coming months. 🙏

 

User
Posted 09 Aug 2024 at 14:39

I had the LDR Brachy procedure last August. First 3 month PSA check was 1.8, at 6 months it was 1.4. Pre-Brachy PSA was 8.4

All good I thought and I was optimistic about my 12 month check. Sadly it has come in 2.6. My oncologist says this is a bounce and is not uncommon (?). He has though put me back on 3 month testing.

All a bit of a worry as things seemed to be going well.

Tom

PS - responding to the question of post LDR Brachy radical prostatectomy, it is possible, even routine, although it's not as easy as it would have been pre brachy. At least this was what I was told by brachy nurse specialist.

PPS - I didn't have any hormone therapy

Edited by member 09 Aug 2024 at 14:50  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 09 Aug 2024 at 22:34
Hey Tom!

I'm still very hopeful that what you and I are experiencing is indeed bounce. It's a definite 'thing' and from my understanding, can continue to be a 'thing' anytime up to and during the first few years after the procedure.

I'd say the timing/trend of your results were more typical of the bounce phenomenon than mine but I'm definitely one of the (even) younger ones to opt for Brachy and that could very well be a factor affecting my results so I'm determined not to hit the panic button yet!

Let's see how this rollercoaster rolls hey?🤞

User
Posted 10 Aug 2024 at 13:31

Thanks Paul, hopefully you are right, fingers crossed. Why is this horrible disease so........unpredictable.

I am bit older that you (63) so that may account for why my bounce is lower than yours.

All the best with it. 

Tom

Edited by member 10 Aug 2024 at 13:33  | Reason: Not specified

 
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