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Is HIFU an option?

User
Posted 25 Aug 2024 at 21:52

Where does HIFU sit as a treatment option rather than RP or HT/RT? 
In what diagnosis is HIFU an option?
There seems to be less side effects and quicker recovery.

User
Posted 27 Aug 2024 at 18:25

You might possibly be deemed suitable for HIFU (by HIFU practitioners) if tests and biopsy show significant cancer in one (max 2) local part of the prostate only, with no mets, no spread. 

Some people on here have reported that they were oversold HIFU.  But in my experience, the relevant London NHS hospital made no attempt to 'sell' it, they just agreed to do it when asked.  Before that, when I was first offered only a choice between HT/RT and prostatectomy, I looked into paying for HIFU privately, and (with hindsight) some of the private providers were maybe overselling it somewhat.  

I knew about the risk of recurrence in a different part of the prostate but comforted myself that HIFU can be repeated in that instance.  I was keen to avoid the notorious side effects of prolonged hormone treatment (more or less compulsory with radiotherapy) and I didn't want to take the risk of (potentially prolonged) incontinence from prostatectomy.

In the event I had a different side effect after HIFU: acute urine retention at night. All that energy they put in, to kill the localised cancer, inflamed the prostate and nearby tissue.  I had to have emergency recatheterisation.   Fortunately this resolved in a few weeks.   Tamsulosin didn't seem to help, but antinflammatories did.

So that was that.  Except that, my PSA after HIFU was almost unchanged from the level of 7 which had got me investigated for PCa in the first place.   I was told, let's see what the next PSA reading is in a few months' time.  Time passed, next PSA was almost unchanged.  I wanted to know why, and a further contrast MRI was commissioned.  It appeared to be clear, in the sense of no active cancer anywhere in the prostate.  But next reading a few months later, PSA was up slightly,  rather than down.  Why, I asked.   A PSMA PET scan was ordered.  Came back last month: prostate cancer in 2 pelvic lymph nodes.  The focal urol team have therefore referred me to their Onco urol colleagues who've promptly put me on HT, before RT in due course.

Obviously I now regret having HIFU.  I'm now in a much worse and more dangerous situation than if I'd started HT/RT over 18 months ago, at a time when the then PSMA PET scan showed no cancer in nodes.

There's another thread on here in which a reference is made to a trial of HIFU (not in UK) which was stopped for reasons of 'oncological safety'.  I'm not sure exactly what is meant but it might be the cancer 'getting out'.  

 

User
Posted 28 Aug 2024 at 11:18

You won't usually get the MRI report unless you ask for it. You can ask for the MRI images too. Your consultants are not normally allowed to give you these (although they might be prepared to give you the report even though they're not allowed to). You have to make a GDPR data access request through the relevant department (often PALS, or if not, they will know who it is). They will have a form for making this request. They need to provide it within a month of you requesting it, at no charge (unless you are being unreasonable, e.g. asking for the same thing repeatedly).

I do ask for all my scans. However, I do make it clear it's not urgent as it's not holding up treatment, so they can process urgent requests in preference.

Edited by member 28 Aug 2024 at 11:26  | Reason: Not specified

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User
Posted 26 Aug 2024 at 21:04

HIFU is not very common in the UK. There are a couple of centres which do it UCLH London being one. It is only appropriate for a small percentage of tumours (probably about 10%). I would guess that of all the people posting on this forum about 1% have had HIFU. Now for all I know it may have been suitable for ten times that number of patients but it wasn't offered because it is so limited in availability.

If I were you I wouldn't spend too much time investigating HIFU, because there is a 90% chance it won't be suitable for you. Wait till you have your full diagnosis, listen to what is being offered as treatment and then ask the doctor if he thinks HIFU is likely to be suitable? It is unlikely your doctor will have any expertise in HIFU but for most tumours he will be able to say "No" straightaway and for others he may say "maybe, I can refer you to a HIFU specialist for an opinion".

Most threads on here suggest HIFU works for a few years, but then will need repeating. There was a thread here recently from someone who was very disgruntled by his HIFU treatment, so if you are a potential HIFU candidate then start doing your research.

 

Dave

User
Posted 27 Aug 2024 at 00:16

HIFU is one of a family of focal therapies. The others offered in the UK are cryotherapy and nanoknife.

There are several centres offering one or more focal therapies, but none north of London as far as I know. (There is a charity Prost8 which is trying to get them rolled out further afield.)

Focal therapies don't treat the whole prostate, only the tumours. Often they don't treat all the tumours, only the two largest, putting you on to Active Surveillance for any remaining ones. Even if all the tumours were treated, you still go back on to something like Active Surveillance for monitoring the prostate afterwards, as it's not as easy to tell if the treatment worked as it is with prostatectomy or radiotherapy.

There are heated debates/arguments among urologists on if focal therapies are sensible treatments, some feeling strongly that they are (those who perform them), and others feeling strongly that focal therapies are not sensible curative treatments because prostate cancer isn't focal and tends to spring up in lots of places in the prostate eventually. There isn't long term data to affirm or refute these.

If you want to know if you're eligible for a focal therapy, you will have to get a referral to a centre which does them. Urologists at centres which don't do the procedure are unlikely to give accurate info. UCLH and Imperial are the two largest who offer all the options. Some other centres offer only HIFU.

User
Posted 27 Aug 2024 at 18:25

You might possibly be deemed suitable for HIFU (by HIFU practitioners) if tests and biopsy show significant cancer in one (max 2) local part of the prostate only, with no mets, no spread. 

Some people on here have reported that they were oversold HIFU.  But in my experience, the relevant London NHS hospital made no attempt to 'sell' it, they just agreed to do it when asked.  Before that, when I was first offered only a choice between HT/RT and prostatectomy, I looked into paying for HIFU privately, and (with hindsight) some of the private providers were maybe overselling it somewhat.  

I knew about the risk of recurrence in a different part of the prostate but comforted myself that HIFU can be repeated in that instance.  I was keen to avoid the notorious side effects of prolonged hormone treatment (more or less compulsory with radiotherapy) and I didn't want to take the risk of (potentially prolonged) incontinence from prostatectomy.

In the event I had a different side effect after HIFU: acute urine retention at night. All that energy they put in, to kill the localised cancer, inflamed the prostate and nearby tissue.  I had to have emergency recatheterisation.   Fortunately this resolved in a few weeks.   Tamsulosin didn't seem to help, but antinflammatories did.

So that was that.  Except that, my PSA after HIFU was almost unchanged from the level of 7 which had got me investigated for PCa in the first place.   I was told, let's see what the next PSA reading is in a few months' time.  Time passed, next PSA was almost unchanged.  I wanted to know why, and a further contrast MRI was commissioned.  It appeared to be clear, in the sense of no active cancer anywhere in the prostate.  But next reading a few months later, PSA was up slightly,  rather than down.  Why, I asked.   A PSMA PET scan was ordered.  Came back last month: prostate cancer in 2 pelvic lymph nodes.  The focal urol team have therefore referred me to their Onco urol colleagues who've promptly put me on HT, before RT in due course.

Obviously I now regret having HIFU.  I'm now in a much worse and more dangerous situation than if I'd started HT/RT over 18 months ago, at a time when the then PSMA PET scan showed no cancer in nodes.

There's another thread on here in which a reference is made to a trial of HIFU (not in UK) which was stopped for reasons of 'oncological safety'.  I'm not sure exactly what is meant but it might be the cancer 'getting out'.  

 

User
Posted 28 Aug 2024 at 10:45

Thank you for such expansive information about HIFU. The more I have found out about this, the less I like. Too many unknowns.

I have my biopsy tomorrow.

I have had my MRI results delivered to me in a phone call, but have not received the actual MRI report. Does this get posted to me? The MRI was on 17/08/2024 and they telephoned me with the results on 22/08/2024.

User
Posted 28 Aug 2024 at 11:18

You won't usually get the MRI report unless you ask for it. You can ask for the MRI images too. Your consultants are not normally allowed to give you these (although they might be prepared to give you the report even though they're not allowed to). You have to make a GDPR data access request through the relevant department (often PALS, or if not, they will know who it is). They will have a form for making this request. They need to provide it within a month of you requesting it, at no charge (unless you are being unreasonable, e.g. asking for the same thing repeatedly).

I do ask for all my scans. However, I do make it clear it's not urgent as it's not holding up treatment, so they can process urgent requests in preference.

Edited by member 28 Aug 2024 at 11:26  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 03 Sep 2024 at 16:00
One has to remember that even with the best of scans cancer cells cannot always be identified even when present, although it has to be said that as scans have improved it has become possible to see smaller groups of cancer cells. So in reality, somtimes cancer cells are unknowingly outside the Prostate even before HIFU is administered or for that matter a Prostate and any suspected lymph nodes are reomoved in a Prostatectomy. RT is then likely to be used to try to eradicate those cancer cells.

My HIFU was given as a salvage treatment for failed RT. Unfortunately, this was not successfull but I was lucky that scans showe a small amount of cancer within part of my Prostate. So, as often is the case, a second application of HIFU was given and I was told I am in remmission. But as after any treatment, cancer cells can become active ieven years later.

Barry
 
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