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Is surgery or HT/RT best for minimising ED & incontinence

User
Posted 09 Oct 2024 at 08:48

I have localised prostate cancer. Gleason 6(3+3). Contained in just left side.

Which treatment out of surgery or HT/RT is best for minimising the side effects of ED and incontinence?

Thank you

User
Posted 09 Oct 2024 at 09:56

It's a risk for both treatments, but current radiotherapy is thought to have a lower risk of impact than surgery.

With surgery, the location of the cancer and your anatomy can change the risk, as can the expertise of the surgeon. Cancer at the rear of the prostate near the neurovascular bundle (the most common position) increases the risk of ED. Cancer in the apex of the prostate also increases the chance of incontinence. Having a short membranous urethra (the part which goes through the pelvic floor/external urinary sphincter) also increases the chance of incontinence. These are all things your surgeon should be able to advise you on based on your scans. Retzius Sparing surgery (performed by a small number of surgeons) gives a faster return of continence after the operation (often immediate), but a year later, it makes no difference in continence as the standard (retropubic) prostatectomy patients have caught up (mostly by 6 months).

With radiotherapy, I'm not sure there are as many identifiable factors which govern your risk of ED or incontinence. The urinary incontinence risk is much lower (but not zero), but there's a very small risk of rectal incontinence (probably even less over the last 6 years due to much more accurate aiming and masking). Unlike surgery were ED is instant in nearly everyone and you hope it recovers over the following months or years, radiotherapy rarely causes ED immediately, but can cause gradual onset over the next 2 years. If you reach 2 years after RT and erectile function is still OK, then you dodged that bullet as onset of ED then reverts to being at the same rate as men of the same age who never had prostate cancer.

User
Posted 09 Oct 2024 at 12:28

It might also be worth pondering the fact that techniques have been and still are improving for both surgery and radiation.

This could be something to weigh in the balance in favour of AS if you have the option of waiting and are still considering the various pros and cons - in the words of Dr Scholz "would you rather be treated with 2024 technology or 2028 technology ?

User
Posted 28 Oct 2024 at 12:38
I was diagnosed with Gleason 7 (3+4) in September. I opted for HT/RT against active surveillance ( I think my age meant the urologist felt obliged to offer AS) for many of the reasons you mention - but mostly the risks of delay and at 75 I would rather deal with the problem than put it off! I have a meeting with the radiotherapy "team" in just over a week to discuss the options but I have to say for logistical reasons - I live 50+ miles from the Hospital and it takes an hour to get there and another back I am tempted by SABR - if it is available.Are there any views on this or experiences?

Small side note is that one month into my Zoladex treatment my skin has gone to hell! Dry areas all over my face, itchy red skin on my neck and hair that feels like very dry straw. I am a bit sensitive about this as had a squamous cell carcinoma removed from my nose in 2002 and following the advice back then I have used moisturiser/sunscreen daily since but it is not helping now! Still it could be worse I suppose.

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User
Posted 09 Oct 2024 at 09:32

The ProtecT Trial gives comparisons  between AS, surgery and RT/HT on incontinence, ED and  quality of life issues.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5134995/

Hope this helps.

User
Posted 09 Oct 2024 at 09:56

It's a risk for both treatments, but current radiotherapy is thought to have a lower risk of impact than surgery.

With surgery, the location of the cancer and your anatomy can change the risk, as can the expertise of the surgeon. Cancer at the rear of the prostate near the neurovascular bundle (the most common position) increases the risk of ED. Cancer in the apex of the prostate also increases the chance of incontinence. Having a short membranous urethra (the part which goes through the pelvic floor/external urinary sphincter) also increases the chance of incontinence. These are all things your surgeon should be able to advise you on based on your scans. Retzius Sparing surgery (performed by a small number of surgeons) gives a faster return of continence after the operation (often immediate), but a year later, it makes no difference in continence as the standard (retropubic) prostatectomy patients have caught up (mostly by 6 months).

With radiotherapy, I'm not sure there are as many identifiable factors which govern your risk of ED or incontinence. The urinary incontinence risk is much lower (but not zero), but there's a very small risk of rectal incontinence (probably even less over the last 6 years due to much more accurate aiming and masking). Unlike surgery were ED is instant in nearly everyone and you hope it recovers over the following months or years, radiotherapy rarely causes ED immediately, but can cause gradual onset over the next 2 years. If you reach 2 years after RT and erectile function is still OK, then you dodged that bullet as onset of ED then reverts to being at the same rate as men of the same age who never had prostate cancer.

User
Posted 09 Oct 2024 at 10:19

As always Andy's summation is stop on. When viewing the outcomes of thousands of patients the outcomes are fairly similar, however, the outcomes of either treatment can vary enormously in individual cases.

I selected surgery, but had it been available to me I'd have probably tried the the new SABR which only involves 5 radiation visits.

https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-66946336.amp?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17284657155883&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com

 

Edited by member 09 Oct 2024 at 10:34  | Reason: Additional text

User
Posted 09 Oct 2024 at 12:28

It might also be worth pondering the fact that techniques have been and still are improving for both surgery and radiation.

This could be something to weigh in the balance in favour of AS if you have the option of waiting and are still considering the various pros and cons - in the words of Dr Scholz "would you rather be treated with 2024 technology or 2028 technology ?

User
Posted 09 Oct 2024 at 13:02

I have said to put me on AS. Essentially I see this as buying me a few months time to research all treatment options.

I feel ill disposed towards AS because:

a) it’s only as good as the ‘active’ testing at the correct time and the right tests. I’m wary that I would get an annual MRI scan for instance.

b) the cancer might spread unknowingly in the meantime.

c) the initial biopsy grading could be wrong ( as others point out after prostatectomy histologies).

d) if I have surgery now, then there is a much better chance of a cure.

e) it is better to have surgery whilst younger and fitter.

f) I run the risk of getting other health conditions on the meantime that may prevent treatment options.

g) staying on AS will mess with my head.

h) I’m the sort of person who if something needs to be done i.e. treatment - surgery or RT, then it’s best to get on and do it.

User
Posted 28 Oct 2024 at 12:38
I was diagnosed with Gleason 7 (3+4) in September. I opted for HT/RT against active surveillance ( I think my age meant the urologist felt obliged to offer AS) for many of the reasons you mention - but mostly the risks of delay and at 75 I would rather deal with the problem than put it off! I have a meeting with the radiotherapy "team" in just over a week to discuss the options but I have to say for logistical reasons - I live 50+ miles from the Hospital and it takes an hour to get there and another back I am tempted by SABR - if it is available.Are there any views on this or experiences?

Small side note is that one month into my Zoladex treatment my skin has gone to hell! Dry areas all over my face, itchy red skin on my neck and hair that feels like very dry straw. I am a bit sensitive about this as had a squamous cell carcinoma removed from my nose in 2002 and following the advice back then I have used moisturiser/sunscreen daily since but it is not helping now! Still it could be worse I suppose.

 
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