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Blood pressure too high for surgery

User
Posted 13 Jan 2025 at 18:40

Hi

Today I went for a pre-op assessment as I had made the very difficult choice between radiation and surgery.

Unfortunately I've been told that my blood pressure is too high for surgery and I'll need to contact my GP to get this under control.

I've had slightly high readings when I've had it checked in the past but it was never raised as a concern.  So I am not on any BP medication.

It's probably raised higher now due to the stress of all this plus the "white coat" effect but it will still need to be sorted.

Does anyone know how long medication takes to affect BP for it to be considered under control ?   

I didn't have a set date for surgery but think it would have been in the next 2 or 3 weeks.  But now I have no idea and am even more stressed about further delays and the risk of spread.  If I'd had surgery in early Feb then this would be around 6 months from diagnosis which I believe is fairly normal.   But even this was a worry.  Now it's going to be even longer.

Any info on the above is welcome.

Thanks

John

 

User
Posted 13 Jan 2025 at 23:25

I would start taking home blood pressure readings now, same times every day, and record them. That will be useful to see if it's just white coat syndrome, and also to see what effect blood pressure meds are having. This will be useful to show to your clinicians.

I think the medications are quite fast acting, but it will be a question of being on them long enough to see suitable stable values, and to make sure your body is handing them OK.

I had the same, except I was already on medication. My GP said double the dose until after the operation (brachytherapy in my case), and it didn't delay the surgery at all. (Don't do that unless your doctor says it's the right thing for you though.)

User
Posted 13 Jan 2025 at 23:59

On the day of my brachytherapy they took a blood pressure reading. I can't remember what it was, it was high, not sufficient to stop the surgery, but sufficient that they wanted to monitor it every four hours for the next day and night.

Just before Christmas I had a GP five year health check my reading was 179/99 which is just below get straight on medication. I have now been taking readings at home, and have yet to put them all in a spreadsheet, but they are averaging about 155/85  +-10 on both figures. So yes white coat syndrome does exist.

Machine is about £25 from a pharmacy.

Even though you may find your home readings are good, you need to see your GP in order that at your next pre-op the white coat syndrome does not take you too high.

Edited by member 14 Jan 2025 at 00:02  | Reason: Not specified

Dave

User
Posted 14 Jan 2025 at 07:38

Hi John.

Despite, being a healthy weight and once being very fit, I've had high blood pressure for years and I'm on tons of medication.

On my first anaesthetist's assessment there was a slight concern over my suitability for surgery. Apparently during robotic prostatectomy your tilted at angle (Trendelenburg position) which puts more pressure on your heart. However, he deemed me fit enough to crack on.

A couple of weeks later I went for my op. I was all gowned up and ready to go when another anaethetist decided that it was too risky to operate. I couldn't believe it! My wife and I were devastated. I was so angry, I considered Trendelenburging the anaesthetist until he changed his mind.

I ended up having to sort the job out myself. I contacted my cardiologist who did a heart check and wrote to my urologist surgeon and aneathetist stating I was fit for the op.

This dispute, plus yet another last minute cancellation, where I was all gowned up again but had nowhere to go due to lack of beds; nearly pushed us over the edge and caused a three month delay in surgery.

Anyway, I eventually had totally unproblematic surgery. Then two weeks later, I had a heart attack. ๐Ÿ˜

That was the worst time of my life. I was stuck on a cardiology ward for three weeks, suffering from the side effects of prostatectomy. I was almost totally incontinent, but couldnt have a shower for days, because I was wired up to a heart monitor.  It took them ages to decide how to fix my old ticker. Initially, they were going to do a bypass but eventually they drilled out the calcified arteries and stented them. Which was was probably the cheapest option. ๐Ÿ™‚

Funnily enough, on hindsight, the heart problem helped me deal with the anguish of cancer. Most of the lads on the cardiology ward, some waiting for major heart surgery, felt really sorry for me for having cancer, yet their heart conditions were far more life threatening than mine. It was all a bit surreal. 

Sorry for rambling on mate, but the heart attack put everything in perspective to me. I began to think, okay things might go wrong with my cancer condition and I might, years ahead die of it, but it's less upsetting than the thought of immediately being snuffed out by cardiac arrest.

My heart goes out to you, excuse the pun. I know how disappointed you must feel for them to throw this spanner in the works so late in proceedings. Your problem will be convincing the pre-assessment team that there are no longer any concerns. In my case medication has never been quick in reducing my blood pressure, I hope that in your case it does.

 

Edited by member 14 Jan 2025 at 09:12  | Reason: Typo

User
Posted 14 Jan 2025 at 08:23

Just out of interest what is your BP reading that was deemed too high for surgery? I was diagnosed with hypertension about 6mths before my PC diagnosis. I would not say my BP was fully under control at diagnosis, as the stress of the PC diagnosis played havoc with my readings and each time I was pre-assessed. I think it hovered around 180/90 and sometimes higher. Also strangely the left arm was higher than the right arm so always made sure I gave them that to measure๐Ÿ˜†.

I am still on meds for hypertension and would say it is under control now. Also I was mid 50s at diagnosis.

User
Posted 14 Jan 2025 at 11:05

HT increases blood pressure, I'm on a mixture of ramipril and amlodipine, once I started on these my BP was under control in a couple of weeks.

 

User
Posted 14 Jan 2025 at 11:17

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
Does anyone know what is considered a reasonably safe delay for treatment from diagnosis ?  I know it depends on your Gleason score and staging etc but I've seen info that says 6 months is usually OK but not longer.  And 6 months seems to be the general time frames I've seen from other folk on the NHS process.

Hi again John. They knew that I was Gleason 8 (3+5), later upgraded to 9 (4+5), with capsular breach T3a and didn't have a problem delaying my surgery for 6 months. I was told during COVID that is was common for delays up to 9 months.

User
Posted 14 Jan 2025 at 17:15

Hi John,

You've probably seen this and it's no quick fix but here is what the British Heart Foundation says about food and reducing blood pressure:

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/nutrition/foods-that-lower-blood-pressure

If it's not saying the obvious many foods especially ready made have a lot of things in them you wouldn't normally be aware of.  Such as a lot of salt or saturated fat.  Salt adds flavour but too much adds tension.  There are foods called anti-inflammatories which tend to be fruit and tomatoes.   Many food habits can be broken such as too much salt and sugar and you then find too much becomes obvious.

If you're up at 180/110 I'd think food will be a small component in reducing it but a doctor would likely recommend a diet to stabilise it.  Walking is good.

I know some people think it's a load of guff and others will say they'd rather die earlier and happier but what you decide is up to you.   I've no experience of high blood pressure although I've had high cholesterol which was reduced by diet initially then further by statins.

Good luck, do all you can to get your pressure down.

All the best,
Peter

 

User
Posted 14 Jan 2025 at 21:17

PC is usually slow growing, so delay of 6mths would usually not make a difference in the grand scheme of things.

User
Posted 15 Jan 2025 at 11:00

I see your nearly 60, the age when many folks start to have BP problems.
Yes, rattle your GP's cage, I expect Ace inhibitors + Statins will be recommended. I've been on both since around your age - minimal side effects thankfully. You will probably need to have a blood test after your on them, to ensure they are not having effects on your Kidneys etc. & an annual test for the rest of your life.
Yes, doing your own Blood pressure tests, is a pretty good idea - sit down quiet for 5 mins or so before the night & morning tests. 9am & 4.30 works for me. Gets away from the white coat syndrome problem.

Best of luck with your Prostate treatment. I see some hospitals are offering the 5 day high dose Radio therapy, with no Hormone therapy. Sounds a good option if it does the job.
I had the 20 sessions + Hormone for around 3 years total. Things seem OK now for me.

Edited by member 15 Jan 2025 at 11:03  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 15 Jan 2025 at 18:32
John yes I was on HT from the outset and that was doing the job of keeping things as they should. I mentioned this as it was mentioned that during covid there were delays in eg surgery but I'm sure HT was given to keep the PCa at bay.

Peter

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User
Posted 13 Jan 2025 at 23:25

I would start taking home blood pressure readings now, same times every day, and record them. That will be useful to see if it's just white coat syndrome, and also to see what effect blood pressure meds are having. This will be useful to show to your clinicians.

I think the medications are quite fast acting, but it will be a question of being on them long enough to see suitable stable values, and to make sure your body is handing them OK.

I had the same, except I was already on medication. My GP said double the dose until after the operation (brachytherapy in my case), and it didn't delay the surgery at all. (Don't do that unless your doctor says it's the right thing for you though.)

User
Posted 13 Jan 2025 at 23:59

On the day of my brachytherapy they took a blood pressure reading. I can't remember what it was, it was high, not sufficient to stop the surgery, but sufficient that they wanted to monitor it every four hours for the next day and night.

Just before Christmas I had a GP five year health check my reading was 179/99 which is just below get straight on medication. I have now been taking readings at home, and have yet to put them all in a spreadsheet, but they are averaging about 155/85  +-10 on both figures. So yes white coat syndrome does exist.

Machine is about £25 from a pharmacy.

Even though you may find your home readings are good, you need to see your GP in order that at your next pre-op the white coat syndrome does not take you too high.

Edited by member 14 Jan 2025 at 00:02  | Reason: Not specified

Dave

User
Posted 14 Jan 2025 at 07:38

Hi John.

Despite, being a healthy weight and once being very fit, I've had high blood pressure for years and I'm on tons of medication.

On my first anaesthetist's assessment there was a slight concern over my suitability for surgery. Apparently during robotic prostatectomy your tilted at angle (Trendelenburg position) which puts more pressure on your heart. However, he deemed me fit enough to crack on.

A couple of weeks later I went for my op. I was all gowned up and ready to go when another anaethetist decided that it was too risky to operate. I couldn't believe it! My wife and I were devastated. I was so angry, I considered Trendelenburging the anaesthetist until he changed his mind.

I ended up having to sort the job out myself. I contacted my cardiologist who did a heart check and wrote to my urologist surgeon and aneathetist stating I was fit for the op.

This dispute, plus yet another last minute cancellation, where I was all gowned up again but had nowhere to go due to lack of beds; nearly pushed us over the edge and caused a three month delay in surgery.

Anyway, I eventually had totally unproblematic surgery. Then two weeks later, I had a heart attack. ๐Ÿ˜

That was the worst time of my life. I was stuck on a cardiology ward for three weeks, suffering from the side effects of prostatectomy. I was almost totally incontinent, but couldnt have a shower for days, because I was wired up to a heart monitor.  It took them ages to decide how to fix my old ticker. Initially, they were going to do a bypass but eventually they drilled out the calcified arteries and stented them. Which was was probably the cheapest option. ๐Ÿ™‚

Funnily enough, on hindsight, the heart problem helped me deal with the anguish of cancer. Most of the lads on the cardiology ward, some waiting for major heart surgery, felt really sorry for me for having cancer, yet their heart conditions were far more life threatening than mine. It was all a bit surreal. 

Sorry for rambling on mate, but the heart attack put everything in perspective to me. I began to think, okay things might go wrong with my cancer condition and I might, years ahead die of it, but it's less upsetting than the thought of immediately being snuffed out by cardiac arrest.

My heart goes out to you, excuse the pun. I know how disappointed you must feel for them to throw this spanner in the works so late in proceedings. Your problem will be convincing the pre-assessment team that there are no longer any concerns. In my case medication has never been quick in reducing my blood pressure, I hope that in your case it does.

 

Edited by member 14 Jan 2025 at 09:12  | Reason: Typo

User
Posted 14 Jan 2025 at 08:23

Just out of interest what is your BP reading that was deemed too high for surgery? I was diagnosed with hypertension about 6mths before my PC diagnosis. I would not say my BP was fully under control at diagnosis, as the stress of the PC diagnosis played havoc with my readings and each time I was pre-assessed. I think it hovered around 180/90 and sometimes higher. Also strangely the left arm was higher than the right arm so always made sure I gave them that to measure๐Ÿ˜†.

I am still on meds for hypertension and would say it is under control now. Also I was mid 50s at diagnosis.

User
Posted 14 Jan 2025 at 08:45

Hi

The nurse wouldn't actually tell me the reading as she said it would just stress me out even more when I googled it !!  But I'll be asking the GP, assuming he/she gets sent the results.

But from what I can see online,  if the reading is above 180/110 then it's a showstopper.

We have a BP monitor at home as my other half has high BP so she recently bought a device to keep an eye on it.  We checked yesterday afternoon and the average of 3 readings worked out at 159/102.   Still too high but I was still pretty stressed out from the earlier news.

I'm sure I'll get put on meds but, as I said,  my worry now is the further delay for treatment.  I don't know how long they need to see the BP under control before they'll be happy to continue the process.

The stress of all this in general, plus this new setback, really isn't helping !

Thanks all

John

  

User
Posted 14 Jan 2025 at 10:24

Hi

I managed to get the readings from the assessment - 186/107 , 189/110,  189/115.    So over the 180/110 threshold.

I've got an appointment at the GP later this week to get it checked again.

Does anyone know what is considered a reasonably safe delay for treatment from diagnosis ?  I know it depends on your Gleason score and staging etc but I've seen info that says 6 months is usually OK but not longer.  And 6 months seems to be the general time frames I've seen from other folk on the NHS process.

If I'd had the op as planned in 2 or 3 weeks time I would have been at the roughly 6 month stage.  But I would say that, even with a best case scenario,  this is going to add at least another month.  But possibly more.

I don't know if I should be considering Plan B of radiation.  It's been hard enough making the initial decision without all this.

Thanks

John

 

User
Posted 14 Jan 2025 at 11:05

HT increases blood pressure, I'm on a mixture of ramipril and amlodipine, once I started on these my BP was under control in a couple of weeks.

 

User
Posted 14 Jan 2025 at 11:17

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
Does anyone know what is considered a reasonably safe delay for treatment from diagnosis ?  I know it depends on your Gleason score and staging etc but I've seen info that says 6 months is usually OK but not longer.  And 6 months seems to be the general time frames I've seen from other folk on the NHS process.

Hi again John. They knew that I was Gleason 8 (3+5), later upgraded to 9 (4+5), with capsular breach T3a and didn't have a problem delaying my surgery for 6 months. I was told during COVID that is was common for delays up to 9 months.

User
Posted 14 Jan 2025 at 16:25

Hi Adrian

Yeah, I saw that covid had delayed some treatments by a few months in certain places.  

But I don't know if there's any data on how these guys actually got on after their delayed treatment.

I need to find some way of dealing with stress as it's really not helping with the already high blood pressure, or in general.

Thanks

John

 

 

User
Posted 14 Jan 2025 at 17:15

Hi John,

You've probably seen this and it's no quick fix but here is what the British Heart Foundation says about food and reducing blood pressure:

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/nutrition/foods-that-lower-blood-pressure

If it's not saying the obvious many foods especially ready made have a lot of things in them you wouldn't normally be aware of.  Such as a lot of salt or saturated fat.  Salt adds flavour but too much adds tension.  There are foods called anti-inflammatories which tend to be fruit and tomatoes.   Many food habits can be broken such as too much salt and sugar and you then find too much becomes obvious.

If you're up at 180/110 I'd think food will be a small component in reducing it but a doctor would likely recommend a diet to stabilise it.  Walking is good.

I know some people think it's a load of guff and others will say they'd rather die earlier and happier but what you decide is up to you.   I've no experience of high blood pressure although I've had high cholesterol which was reduced by diet initially then further by statins.

Good luck, do all you can to get your pressure down.

All the best,
Peter

 

User
Posted 14 Jan 2025 at 17:21

On the question of the effect of delaying treatment I have referred to this link in the past but I think it may be of interest if you have not already seen it. In this video, for example, Dr Scholz refers (from about 3.50) to studies showing how delays of 6 months made no difference to the outcomes in the case of Gleason 4+3 cancers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aotF2SPzCmU

 

User
Posted 14 Jan 2025 at 18:41

Not quite same case as I was down for RT/HT rather than surgery and started on HT practically straight away and that was working for gleason 8 later upped to 9, PSA 21, slight spread to seminal vesicles. My RT didnt happen til 12 months after diagnosis and everything fine up to now 6 yrs after HT finished and 8 yrs after RT. I'm sure oncologist will make it clear if delay not recommended.
As I say I wasnt on surgery plan and HT was working from outset.
Peter

Edit-I also started on HT medication tho it was a biopsy that was stopped for me, I didnt think it was affecting me at all. Referral to cardiology etc then just couple of BP tablets etc since.

Edited by member 14 Jan 2025 at 18:45  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 14 Jan 2025 at 19:09

Hi both

Kevin - yes, thanks, I've seen that video as I've looked at a lot of the PCRI videos.  I prefer the slightly older ones as they're more relevant to the treatment available on the NHS at the moment,  not the cutting edge stuff he refers to now :-)

Peter - I could be wrong but I thought the HT is designed to reduce or stop the risk of progression before RT.  So even though your RT was 12 months later, you were being treated in the meantime ?

I don't know if HT is available, or not actually recommended, on the surgery path if there are any delays.  I seem to remember reading somewhere that it's not recommended but can't remember why.   Or maybe it's just that surgery usually happens within a few months so there's no need for HT,  or time for it to kick in ? 

Thanks

John

 

 

User
Posted 14 Jan 2025 at 21:17

PC is usually slow growing, so delay of 6mths would usually not make a difference in the grand scheme of things.

User
Posted 15 Jan 2025 at 11:00

I see your nearly 60, the age when many folks start to have BP problems.
Yes, rattle your GP's cage, I expect Ace inhibitors + Statins will be recommended. I've been on both since around your age - minimal side effects thankfully. You will probably need to have a blood test after your on them, to ensure they are not having effects on your Kidneys etc. & an annual test for the rest of your life.
Yes, doing your own Blood pressure tests, is a pretty good idea - sit down quiet for 5 mins or so before the night & morning tests. 9am & 4.30 works for me. Gets away from the white coat syndrome problem.

Best of luck with your Prostate treatment. I see some hospitals are offering the 5 day high dose Radio therapy, with no Hormone therapy. Sounds a good option if it does the job.
I had the 20 sessions + Hormone for around 3 years total. Things seem OK now for me.

Edited by member 15 Jan 2025 at 11:03  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 15 Jan 2025 at 18:32
John yes I was on HT from the outset and that was doing the job of keeping things as they should. I mentioned this as it was mentioned that during covid there were delays in eg surgery but I'm sure HT was given to keep the PCa at bay.

Peter

 
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