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Neurosafe Technique or Retzius Sparring Technique

User
Posted 09 Mar 2025 at 12:21

Hello, I am 47 years old and will undergo robotic surgery for gleason 3+4=7 prostate cancer. The tumor was reported to be localized and PET showed no spread. I found two experienced surgeons in my country. One uses the Retzius Sparring technique and the other uses the Neurosafe technique. If I had to choose only one of these two techniques, which one should I choose? Thank you.

User
Posted 09 Mar 2025 at 15:06

They are not alternatives - they are different things, and as far as I know, they can be done together.

Retzius sparing is a different way of dissecting out the prostate which avoids damage to an anatomical area called the Cave of Retzius. This tends to give a faster recovery of urinary continence after the operation, but 6-12 months later, Retropubic (standard) RALP patients have caught up. Another significant factor is it tends to be only the most experienced surgeons who do Retzius sparing RALP.

Neurosafe (also called Frozen Sections) is a technique for avoiding positive margins, and may improve the chances of nerve sparing without increasing the risk of positive margins. Positive margins are where not all the cancer was cut out, and without Neurosafe, it's not normally discovered until after the operation and it's too late to fix it in the operation, and radiotherapy is likely to be required. Neurosafe enables the positive margin to be seen while you're still in theatre, enabling it to be cut away.

There's an alternative procedure using a Histolog Scanner which does the same job as Neurosafe, which some hospitals are just starting to use. (It doesn't require the Histopathologist to be in/near the operating theatre, as it works across the Internet.)

As to which to chose if you can only have one, I think this depends if faster return of urinary continence (Retzius sparing) is more important to you than reducing the risk of needing salvage radiotherapy (Neurosafe). There are no guarantees either way though.

User
Posted 09 Mar 2025 at 12:21

Hello, I am 47 years old and will undergo robotic surgery for gleason 3+4=7 prostate cancer. The tumor was reported to be localized and PET showed no spread. I found two experienced surgeons in my country. One uses the Retzius Sparring technique and the other uses the Neurosafe technique. If I had to choose only one of these two techniques, which one should I choose? Thank you.

User
Posted 09 Mar 2025 at 20:20

They are usually used together as retzius sparing approach is how the surgeon accesses the prostate. NeuroSAFE is an excellent process to check what’s been taken out doesn’t leave any cancer cells behind with a view to preserving nerve sparing in real time. So they compliment each other and surgeons tend to use them both together.

Edited by member 10 Mar 2025 at 10:49  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 10 Mar 2025 at 08:56

I'm having RARP on 8/04 and spent a lot of time researching surgeons, locations and the different types of robotic machines. Andy is right, Retzius is offered by the surgeon and also possibly dependant on the robot he/she uses. Neurosafe can only be offered if facilities allow and the surgeon is prepared to do this. I'm fortunate in that living just outside London I have a wide choice. Interestingly I found that the Royal Marsden despite having latest equipment and a superb reputation doesn't offer Neurosafe. I'm off to central London where the surgeon will use the Da Vinci SP (Single Port) robot. One incision not multiple which makes initial recovery quicker although outcomes in the medium & longer term are the same. Good luck with your decisions, it's not easy. If you want more information on surgeons and locations please message me.

User
Posted 10 Mar 2025 at 10:53

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

I'm having RARP on 8/04 and spent a lot of time researching surgeons, locations and the different types of robotic machines. Andy is right, Retzius is offered by the surgeon and also possibly dependant on the robot he/she uses. Neurosafe can only be offered if facilities allow and the surgeon is prepared to do this. I'm fortunate in that living just outside London I have a wide choice. Interestingly I found that the Royal Marsden despite having latest equipment and a superb reputation doesn't offer Neurosafe. I'm off to central London where the surgeon will use the Da Vinci SP (Single Port) robot. One incision not multiple which makes initial recovery quicker although outcomes in the medium & longer term are the same. Good luck with your decisions, it's not easy. If you want more information on surgeons and locations please message me.

Best of luck on your surgery. Guys London Bridge is epic centre. Recommend taking a media box and long hdmi lead plus power leads then you can have your own choice tv. The food there is epic. 

User
Posted 10 Mar 2025 at 12:06

As far as I know, the only hospital in the UK doing Neurosafe on the NHS is the Lister at Stevenage. Many hospitals do it privately, and some hospitals did it on the NHS as part of a blind trial in the past.

You might find more NHS hospitals offering Histolog scanning in the future, which is a different way to achieve the same thing. With the way NHS hospitals grow over time, having a histopathologist anywhere near an operating room is unlikely (often they aren't even on the same site) which makes Neurosafe unviable. The Histolog scanner allows the pathologist to be remote from the operating room.

Several of the Retzius Sparing urologists retired from the NHS over the last few years and now only work privately. I might guess this was because they were being fined by HMRC for their pensions and/or getting cheesed off with NHS admin. However, some hospitals do still have surgeons doing Retzius Sparing on the NHS.

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User
Posted 09 Mar 2025 at 15:06

They are not alternatives - they are different things, and as far as I know, they can be done together.

Retzius sparing is a different way of dissecting out the prostate which avoids damage to an anatomical area called the Cave of Retzius. This tends to give a faster recovery of urinary continence after the operation, but 6-12 months later, Retropubic (standard) RALP patients have caught up. Another significant factor is it tends to be only the most experienced surgeons who do Retzius sparing RALP.

Neurosafe (also called Frozen Sections) is a technique for avoiding positive margins, and may improve the chances of nerve sparing without increasing the risk of positive margins. Positive margins are where not all the cancer was cut out, and without Neurosafe, it's not normally discovered until after the operation and it's too late to fix it in the operation, and radiotherapy is likely to be required. Neurosafe enables the positive margin to be seen while you're still in theatre, enabling it to be cut away.

There's an alternative procedure using a Histolog Scanner which does the same job as Neurosafe, which some hospitals are just starting to use. (It doesn't require the Histopathologist to be in/near the operating theatre, as it works across the Internet.)

As to which to chose if you can only have one, I think this depends if faster return of urinary continence (Retzius sparing) is more important to you than reducing the risk of needing salvage radiotherapy (Neurosafe). There are no guarantees either way though.

User
Posted 09 Mar 2025 at 20:20

They are usually used together as retzius sparing approach is how the surgeon accesses the prostate. NeuroSAFE is an excellent process to check what’s been taken out doesn’t leave any cancer cells behind with a view to preserving nerve sparing in real time. So they compliment each other and surgeons tend to use them both together.

Edited by member 10 Mar 2025 at 10:49  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 10 Mar 2025 at 08:56

I'm having RARP on 8/04 and spent a lot of time researching surgeons, locations and the different types of robotic machines. Andy is right, Retzius is offered by the surgeon and also possibly dependant on the robot he/she uses. Neurosafe can only be offered if facilities allow and the surgeon is prepared to do this. I'm fortunate in that living just outside London I have a wide choice. Interestingly I found that the Royal Marsden despite having latest equipment and a superb reputation doesn't offer Neurosafe. I'm off to central London where the surgeon will use the Da Vinci SP (Single Port) robot. One incision not multiple which makes initial recovery quicker although outcomes in the medium & longer term are the same. Good luck with your decisions, it's not easy. If you want more information on surgeons and locations please message me.

User
Posted 10 Mar 2025 at 09:43

Thank you very much for your answers. In that case, I think it is worth paying the additional fee for the Neurosafe method.

User
Posted 10 Mar 2025 at 10:53

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

I'm having RARP on 8/04 and spent a lot of time researching surgeons, locations and the different types of robotic machines. Andy is right, Retzius is offered by the surgeon and also possibly dependant on the robot he/she uses. Neurosafe can only be offered if facilities allow and the surgeon is prepared to do this. I'm fortunate in that living just outside London I have a wide choice. Interestingly I found that the Royal Marsden despite having latest equipment and a superb reputation doesn't offer Neurosafe. I'm off to central London where the surgeon will use the Da Vinci SP (Single Port) robot. One incision not multiple which makes initial recovery quicker although outcomes in the medium & longer term are the same. Good luck with your decisions, it's not easy. If you want more information on surgeons and locations please message me.

Best of luck on your surgery. Guys London Bridge is epic centre. Recommend taking a media box and long hdmi lead plus power leads then you can have your own choice tv. The food there is epic. 

User
Posted 10 Mar 2025 at 12:06

As far as I know, the only hospital in the UK doing Neurosafe on the NHS is the Lister at Stevenage. Many hospitals do it privately, and some hospitals did it on the NHS as part of a blind trial in the past.

You might find more NHS hospitals offering Histolog scanning in the future, which is a different way to achieve the same thing. With the way NHS hospitals grow over time, having a histopathologist anywhere near an operating room is unlikely (often they aren't even on the same site) which makes Neurosafe unviable. The Histolog scanner allows the pathologist to be remote from the operating room.

Several of the Retzius Sparing urologists retired from the NHS over the last few years and now only work privately. I might guess this was because they were being fined by HMRC for their pensions and/or getting cheesed off with NHS admin. However, some hospitals do still have surgeons doing Retzius Sparing on the NHS.

 
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