Motorcycling post op….easy rider?

User

Posted 23 May 2014 19:02:58(UTC)

Hi,

I am just over 3 weeks post op (RALP) and doing very well though I say it myself. I have been walking regularly (since day 2) around two miles a day at present and I am dry at night with a little 'leakage' during the day needing one level 2 pad. I drove after two weeks with my insurance companies approval and I will be returning to work next week on half days (desk job).

So here's the thing….. I booked a US Motorcycling trip (flying out June 10th) before my diagnosis back in February. I considered delaying sugary until after the trip but after advice from fellow forum members and my consultant I decided to have the surgery and not go to the US. I am now seriously considering going on the trip (I didn't cancel the flight) as my recovery is going so well. Prior to surgery the specialist nurse suggested that 6 weeks post op was fine to return to all normal activity (exercise etc). My flight out would be 2 days short of 6 weeks and I would start riding exactly 6 weeks post op. I would be riding around 12 days and around 250 - 300 miles a day with plenty of breaks and it is all road stuff so no ambitious off-roading. I have contacted the Guys specialist nurse about this and she has said that "they wouldn't recommend it" but I feel they may be playing it safe. A GP friend and her husband (also a GP) had a different view and saw no real issues mentioning that "Hospitals are terrified of being sued and will stick rigidly to the rules, regardless of individual case".

The other slight issue is that my post op pathology/PSA results consultation is scheduled for 17th June when I would be in the US and I have to give a blood sample a week before this which would be 10th June (my flight day). I am thinking that having the blood taken on the 9th and pushing the 17th appointment on a couple of weeks would be ok.

I'd be interested in your thoughts. I don't want to ignore medical advice or to put myself at risk but I could really do with a holiday and lets face it life is for living.

Nick

User

Posted 23 May 2014 22:09:19(UTC)

Will your travel insurer cover you without any awkward questions or are they going to ask specifically whether you have been okayed by your specialist? If they ask, you cannot lie although if they don't ask you don't have to say!

What do you think the chances are that the nurse has recorded on your notes that she recommended you don't go?

Is this going to be a Harley D trip? The average Harley weighs 300kg which brings a new perspective to the idea of being able to do normal activities at 6 weeks. There is a hell of a difference between 20 minutes on a treadmill and having to take the weight at starting & stop or when correcting an over-lean. Massive strain on your abdominal muscles which have been cut and will still be meshing back together - no problem for your recovery from op perhaps but men post RP are already at higher risk of hernia even without half a ton of emergency stop. On a smaller lighter bike it may be completely fine. John had his op at the end of the January but couldn't manage the bike before about April / May.

If you did go, I would stick with the 9th for blood test as any earlier might not give a reliable result and could lead to unnecessary angst. Results after you get back - no problem as you will be lovely and relaxed 😎

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User

Posted 23 May 2014 23:05:16(UTC)

Makes my starting golf after 6 weeks a walk in the park!!

Stay Calm And Carry On.

Thanked 2 times

User

Posted 24 May 2014 06:51:53(UTC)

You are making good progress, really pleased for you.

Regarding insurance, you have an obligation to inform your insurance company of any material fact that may affect your insurance risk. The term is double indemnity. If you withhold, and that includes not mentioning, even if it is not asked for, something which later may become or be made to become a material fact and as a result of that there is an incident then you may expect your insurer to refuse to pay all or part of any claim, and unite rightly.

For example, if you have limited vision and, just because your insurer do not ask about it, you do not tell them, they would have the right to refuse cover in the event of a claim. I do not know a lot about PCa, thankfully, but I know a bit about this topic.

Your choice though.

Regarding whether and when or not your are competent on a bike? Only you can really know that. And that would be best established by trial and error. Have you been on any short trips? Are you able to handle the bike at different speeds? Can you put it on a stand okay?

The "six weeks" quoted is not a line that you cross, suddenly over night you become safe and competent. Whereas at 5 weeks and 6 days you are nit safe, and without knowing what criteria it is based on, you do not know if it applies to you or is worth anything other than it is someones view of Mr Average.

IIWM I would be concerned about being safe so that I come home in one piece, and being safe so that I do not cause any harm to anyone else. Proving that to a 3rd party in the event of an incident may be your problem, and if you can prove that you were safe etc, you may go for it. But don't be tempted to hide anything, even if not asked for.

atb,

dave

User

Posted 24 May 2014 09:17:51(UTC)

I will be informing my travel insurance about PCa. The cover I get will not include anything 'prostate related' as the premiums are higher than the cost of the holiday.

There is a fair chance that the specialist nurse has a not about my enquiry and her reply as it was email and she did say that she had checked with the consultant.

I'll be riding a touring BMW (not a Harley) which will be pretty heavy but it is very comfortable. Far more than a smaller bike and it will soak up the bumps which should be better for me physically. I have one here so I will make sure I can handle it ok before I go and if there is any doubt I won't do it. I won't be hiding anything at all to insurers or the bike hire company.

Thanks for the sensible advice.

User

Posted 24 May 2014 09:22:43(UTC)

Countryboy, just to clarify my first paragraph as I haven't worded it very well (you know that I am unwavering in my advice that people must contact their insurers to get approval).

What I was trying to communicate was that he would have to check his insurers are willing to cover him 6 weeks post op. That is a specific and material fact. I suspect his insurer will ask whether his medical team has cleared him to go and he cannot lie but it depends how they word it doesn't it. Are they likely to ask "and what did your nurse think?" or just "has your doctor said you are fit to go?" In this case the answer to the second appears to be yes so why would he add "but the nurse wasn't so positive". If the discussion with nurse was formal then of course he would have to say so to the insurer.

When John went to climb Kilimanjaro we were asked specifically whether the consultant had cleared him to go. At that point we had only asked the GP so it was a big mad panic trying to get email /phone agreement from Mr P in time.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User

Posted 24 May 2014 09:33:42(UTC)

Nick, just seen your latest update. Presumably, if you come off the bike the insurer will be able to argue that was prostate related and refuse to pay for your ambulance, hospital treatment, bike damage, anyone else you injure, etc. I think you are barmy but hey-ho.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User

Posted 24 May 2014 10:00:28(UTC)

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

Lyn,

That's not quite the case. The general travel insurer (medical etc) will not cover me for prorate related issues but the bike insurance has not exclusions as far as I know. It would be very difficult for an insurer to argue that an accident was prostate related but I do take your point and I will check everything thoroughly before making my final decision.

User

Posted 24 May 2014 12:39:56(UTC)

Hmmm. first try disappeared....

Unfortunately, as I can now confirm, hernia is a risk post surgery.

Hernia could be argued as prostate/treatment related ?

An emergency hernia repair would cost a bit over there I suspect.

Something to check out ?

User

Posted 24 May 2014 16:31:24(UTC)

Hi Lyn,

I didn't doubt what you meant for a moment. ;-)

Regarding "PCa related", I would clarify that inclusion or exclusion for cover. I have no idea what complications you may encounter 6 weeks post surgery apart from UTI's for which you will need a test and antibiotics, is that to be excluded?

Any incident would have to be clearly and demonstrably not as a result of your op to ensure cover.

NG - I am sure you will be safe and sensible and return fit well and tanned, if somewhat bandy legged from all those thousands of miles in a straight line on your tractor? ;-)

ATB

dave

User

Posted 26 May 2014 11:25:21(UTC)

Hi Nick,

Ride well within your capabilities and have a great tour. Saw a presentation by a motor cycling journalist some years ago - can't recall his name but went round the world in record time on a Triumph. His film was subsequently shown on TV. He was in the saddle for many hours but gave a tip to have a regular cat nap for 10-15 minutes at regular intervals, sometimes just leaning forward and resting on the bike. Maybe your stops will be regulated by other riders but this is a thought. I would leave riding like the guys in this link until next year! Shame music? replaced the great exhaust sounds but some incredible action shots. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx1LAaJdrRE

Barry

User

Posted 26 May 2014 11:58:19(UTC)

Just remembered the aforementioned motorcyclist's name. It is Nick Sanders some of whose experiences have been shown on 'Men and Motors'. He is a great raconteur and you can find him on Google.

Omitted to say in previous post I take no pleasure in watching accidents included in the video link I gave and as a several times visitor to the IOM for the TT am well aware of the heavy toll of riders who have been killed and injured there.

Barry

User

Posted 27 May 2014 21:43:13(UTC)

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

Hi Barry,

I know Nick Sanders very well. I went on his first organised motorcycle expedition in 1999 following his round the world record. 18 riders went from NY to Vegas then up to Alaska and back to NY in 22 days or so sometimes riding over 700 miles in a day. If you saw his early 'men and motors' films I was in them.

The trip I hope to do in June is with three other riders that were on the same trip and we have ridden in New Zealand, France, Spain, India and California since then. We meet up with Nick at least once a year. He's a total nutter but completely inspirational.

I've been riding for almost 40 years now and its a big part of my life.

It's all about the journey not the destination….not a bad philosophy on life eh?

kind regards

Nick

User

Posted 27 May 2014 22:06:55(UTC)

Hi, Nick. As an avid (some say addicted) biker, I can add a bit of personal experience. First, since I live in the states, I'm curious where your tour will take you? There are so many wonderful areas, each with its' own unique attractions. The BMW is a great choice, both for comfort and durability. I ride a Honda VTX 1300, about 360kg. I rode again 6 weeks post-surgery and the only Pca related difficulty was the occasional added "dribble" caused by a form-fitting seat. The pressure on the perineum was the culprit, I suspect. I had the same problem in my car and on my lawn tractor. Flat seats... no problems. Form-fitting seats, some additional leakage. When I asked my surgeon when I could safely ride again, his reply was, "never". I believe that his concern was more about motorcycles than my physical ability to ride. Any concerns about additional straining due to the weight of a large bike are, in my opinion, misplaced. Except for the unavoidable (usually slow speed) mishap, bikes are a function of balance, not strength. Lots of small women riding very big bikes around here. Enjoy your holiday.

Lawrence

"I am not young enough to know everything."

Oscar Wilde

User

Posted 27 May 2014 22:21:11(UTC)

Hi Nick,

I recall being one to advise you to go for the op. now that's out if the way, the post op results can easily wait until you get back from your trip. After all there isn't much that you can do about them. You'll still be here when you get back, have a great ride and as they say over there enjoy.

Cheers,
Stu

User

Posted 28 May 2014 01:31:33(UTC)

Hi Nick,

Some wonderful trips you have made but I take my hat off to you for doing mileages of up to 700 miles a day on tours. Did 700 miles on one occasion on the UK National Rally about 1960 riding day and night only stopping for fuel and a sandwich. Went with a fellow clubman on a 650cc BSA Super Rocket and took it in turns to be pillion. Found BSA deserved it's reputation as representing Bl**dy Sore Ar*e. After riding about another 120 or so miles home fell into bed and slept the clock round. So I vowed never to attempt such mileages on a bike again though I envy those that do. I expect seats are better now and I know some fit gel inserts into them.

Interesting you know and keep up with Nick Sanders. Met him once many years ago at a presentation and chat session at Carl Rosner Motor Cycles at Sanderstead, South Croydon - what a character! I seem to remember he had a partner and maybe a child but I believe they broke up. Certainly at one point he had a motor cycle combination. Has he since found a woman who can tame him I wonder?!!

Have a great time.

Barry

User

Posted 28 May 2014 07:06:47(UTC)

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

Hi Barry,
I tend to see Nick at bike shows and I have been to a couple of trip reunions at his place in Wales. He took his wife and young son on the trip in '99. They travelled in the support vehicle. They broke up a couple of years later but he has now found a woman who can tame him....she's a qualified doctor. Nick did have an Enfield combination that he did a solo expedition on. At one point he took it over the Himalayas hanging from a hot air balloon! Carl Rosner is my local dealer. I've been buying bikes from him for over 30 years.
Thanks for your good wishes. My next challenge is getting insurance for the trip.

All the best
Nick

User

Posted 28 May 2014 07:14:56(UTC)

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

Hi, Nick. As an avid (some say addicted) biker, I can add a bit of personal experience. First, since I live in the states, I'm curious where your tour will take you? There are so many wonderful areas, each with its' own unique attractions. The BMW is a great choice, both for comfort and durability. I ride a Honda VTX 1300, about 360kg. I rode again 6 weeks post-surgery and the only Pca related difficulty was the occasional added "dribble" caused by a form-fitting seat. The pressure on the perineum was the culprit, I suspect.I had the same problem in my car and on my lawn tractor. Flat seats... no problems. Form-fitting seats, some additional leakage. When I asked my surgeon when I could safely ride again, his reply was, "never". I believe that his concern was more about motorcycles than my physical ability to ride. Any concerns about additional straining due to the weight of a large bike are, in my opinion, misplaced. Except for the unavoidable (usually slow speed) mishap, bikes are a function of balance, not strength. Lots of small women riding very big bikes around here. Enjoy your holiday.
Lawrence

Hi Lawrence,

We haven't worked out the tour yet. We start from Seattle and want to take in Yellowstone, Montana and the Rockies. We may start by heading south down H1 to SF and then work inland. I think the RT seat will be fine. I haven't had any 'dribble' issues when driving at all. As far as the bike weight is concerned the only likely strain would be using the main stand and if that's necessary I'll get one of my riding colleagues to do that.
Thanks for your encouragement.
Keep your knees in the breeze!

Nick

User

Posted 30 May 2014 22:19:29(UTC)

Well Nick I hope you do well on the trip and all goes to plan. My RP operation was 4 weeks ago. I was due to ride to Austria with my wife, she has here own bike, and several friends at the end of June. At present I doubt very much I will be going on the bike, a Triumph Tiger Explorer XC, but hopefully will go in the car instead. I have been convinced by others that there is plenty of time to ride my bike when I'm properly fit or put another way by a good pal; what's the point of having life saving surgery if you go and kill yourself on an autobahn because you pushed yourself too far too soon. It's what friends are for.

Good luck,

Steve

User

Posted 30 May 2014 23:02:47(UTC)

Hhhhhhmmmm.

I see another PCa motorbike ride-out coming on. Last couple were to the Ace cafe and before that to Skegness but that was a couple of years ago.

Could post a call out to the other riders once we are all back from our trips?

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User

Posted 31 May 2014 01:58:21(UTC)

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

How I wish I could join a ride like that! I just finished a 5-day 1600 mile trip, arriving back home last Monday (26/5/14). The 1st 1400 miles were wonderful.... The last 200 not so much. Got caught in a series of thunderstorms that included bone-soaking rain, bike smashing wind gusts and hail. Whilst on the ride, I saw another biker that had this patch on his vest: "If you don't ride in the rain... you don't ride". I rode.
Best,
Lawrence

"I am not young enough to know everything."

Oscar Wilde

User

Posted 31 May 2014 10:48:50(UTC)

I'm up for ride so long as it isn't raining

User

Posted 02 June 2014 14:55:17(UTC)

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

I'd definitely be up for that

User

Posted 03 June 2014 09:51:28(UTC)

Sorry to post this. I know you guys are responsible riders, but this weekend there was more carnage, this time on an unprecedented scale near here. PLEASE be careful. You and your families have quite enough to put up with as it is. Also please remember the emergency services who have to pick up the bits.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/new...orth-east-wales-27657545

Tony

TURP then LRP in 2009/2010. Lots of leakage but PSA < 0.1 AMS-800 Artificial Sphincter activated 2015.

User

Posted 05 June 2014 13:14:30(UTC)

I just wheeled my classic Kawasaki Z1100 out of the garage onto the drive. It started second go. Deck chair, cup of tea and a biscuit and a bit of warm sunshine whilst I listened to it burble away.

Can't help it....where's my crash helmet

User

Posted 05 June 2014 16:03:47(UTC)

Whoa ho!

I've been a while away from here but my old shipmate Murf told me there was something "Motorcycley" going on!

Yes we used to organise a few ride outs and meets a while back but I must confess *blush* life got in the way and I let it drop,

Also there was a nasty incident in the Nell Gwynn tea rooms in Barnes involving Murf (again) that I'd rather draw a veil over...

The PMCC (Prostate Motor Cycle Club) may yet ride again!

Yes it's about time the leathers were dusted off metaphorically speaking - unfortunately a combination of holidays, work and Jury Service will tie me down for a bit.

An Ace meet up might be quite viable though.... any takers?

Whilst you are here , I am semi retired and run a part time Mobile Coffee Van Business that is Motorcycle-Themed ... It's called ...

Cafe Racer Coffee Bar (bit of a clue there!)

I use it for Prostate Cancer awareness ( also charity events for Macmillians, Stephs Wishes and various other charities ) as well as the odd fee paying job to subsidise it....

Could you all please do me a big favour and visit my Facebook page and LIKE it?

I have got 820 likes currently but charities seem to take you seriously the more "likes" you have....I would love to get to 1000! (grovel)

Here is the page; www.facebook.com/caferacercoffeebar

Thanks in advance

Ross

User

Posted 05 June 2014 18:34:37(UTC)

Well...I couldn't help it. Bike jeans on and a light jacket and had a little tootle round the local villages in the sunshine. Got to wear my new Schuberth C3 Pro too for the first time. Posted some letters etc.

It doesn't get any better than this...I love summer

User

Posted 05 June 2014 18:35:23(UTC)

Aaaaaaagggghh! Two of my three favourite guys in one thread. Good to hear from you and yes, we will be up for a ride if we can time it for after France (back 23rd July).

'Liked' the page, Denden .... you are nearly at 900 already x

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User

Posted 05 June 2014 19:29:31(UTC)

Thanks Lyn! Great to hear from you too!

Yes i've boogered it up by starting two treads at once... everytime i navigate around I can't find where I was before ... confused...

Yep summers here - let's see what we can do!

User

Posted 06 June 2014 15:52:19(UTC)

My thread seems to have gone off at a tangent which is fine with me as it's bike based. I'd be very interested in some kind of a PCMC thing or just a ride out. Meeting at the Ace would work. Maybe we can get something going later in the summer.

I've just ordered an Airhawk R cushion to go on the bike I'm using in the US next week. Specially designed with a cut away in the 'tackle' area. That combined with the two wheeled armchair that is a BMW R1200RT I should be fine 6 weeks post op :)

On a more serious note I am being careful. I've ridden good distances for the last week or so with no ill effects. Insurance is all fine with everything declared and sign off from my GP...oh and I'm completely dry now (from 4 weeks post op) so I don't need to fill my bags with pads!!

User

Posted 07 June 2014 05:36:27(UTC)

Hi Nick - your right I didn't answer your question.

I had no problems personally. I left it about two weeks after my robotic Da Vinci op before I was back in the saddle and although my bike at the time had a hard seat (sportsbike more like a plank covered in vinyl ) it all went fine.

Mind you I didn't ride long distances - maybe 80 - 100 miles maximum but I didn't feel a trace of discomfort.

In fact I was more worried about busting a stitch if, whilst manoeuvring at slow speeds or pushing it about , I unbalanced the bike and had to strain to get it back upright.

All went well though.

Ross

User

Posted 07 June 2014 09:48:14(UTC)

Watch out for those BMWs...I'm just reading in the current copy of Motorcycle Monthly of a motorcyclist in California (it had to be in America of course) who sued BMW claiming his BMW bike which has a 'ridge like seat' gave him a 'severe priapism' or a prolonged erection which lasted 20 months (Aaaagh!) and ruined his sex life and gave him 'substantial emotional and mental anguish'. His claim was backed up by his urologist who gave evidence on his behalf and told the court that vibrations from the machine could have caused the priapism.

Better than Viagra then.

Oh, by the way, he lost the case.

User

Posted 07 June 2014 17:53:37(UTC)

So perhaps a short ride on the bike is better than drugs!

"I am not young enough to know everything."

Oscar Wilde

User

Posted 17 June 2014 06:20:35(UTC)

Bit of an update.
I am on my US bike trip and all is well physically. Having ridden for 7 days averaging 350 miles a day I have had no ill effects. At around six and a half weeks post op it's far better than expected.
I have been using an Airhawk R cushion on my bike which is brilliant. Riding has been great in Washington State, Idaho, Montana and Wyoming so far. Even snow storms at 11,000 ft over Bearstooth Highway was ok. Currently in Cody Wyoming off to Yellowstone then on to California.
Glad I made the trip and thanks for the encouragement and support.

Nick

User

Posted 17 June 2014 08:10:15(UTC)

I am really pleased you're having a good ride with no side effects Nick as I've decided after all to go on our trip to Austria. We leave on Friday. We're keeping it down to a couple of hundred miles a day, we have good hotels with pools and saunas on the way too. I am feeling strong and fit, been swimming most days so it should be fine.

Washington, Idaho, Montana and Wyoming on a bike...one of these days!

Steve

User

Posted 17 June 2014 18:17:16(UTC)

What a great trip so far, Nick. Snow at 11000 ft? You're certainly a better man than I am. I can't even breath at 11000 ft! Not only do you sound fit, it also seems that you chose the right bike for the tour. Too bad you're not going to be in my neighborhood (Arkansas), but should the time ever come, we have some wonderful twisties here in the Ozark Mountains.

Best,

Lawrence

"I am not young enough to know everything."

Oscar Wilde

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