I'm interested in conversations about and I want to talk about
Know exactly what you want?
Show search

Notification

Error

123>

my brother in January, now me!

User
Posted 17 Mar 2016 at 08:08
Hi guys,

So my 60 yr old brother was diagnosed in January, having ignored some toilet symptoms for a while. Some growth on the outside but ok for RP which he had 2 weeks ago. So I thought I had better be checked. Im 56 just. In January my psa result was 13! I had 4 DREs, all smooth and soft, but biopsy showed 5 out of six hits on one side only. MRI has indicated no spread and I have no symptoms. Only got checked coz of my brother!

So tomorrow I see the top guy in Cambridge to discuss RP, and on Monday another guy about RT. The diagnosis consultant said the multidisciplinary panel were recommending surgery, but that its upto me, of course. I guess I agree as one side may still develope cancer, I am young, and my brother has it, so RT may work now but not for whats to come. Gleason 3 and 4. My brothers was 4 and 3.

All tips very welcome!

User
Posted 18 Mar 2016 at 20:22

David

If survival rather than quality of life is the aim then go for the treatment that you feel is the best for that as no one can predict severity of side effects for each person
of whatever chosen treatment.

Chris/Woody.

As regards ED its RT nerve damage rather than HT. Feedback from long term guys I know on Zoladex seems to suggest the longer on it the greater ED issues.

However you could be lucky - I sincerely hope so.

Ray

User
Posted 30 Mar 2016 at 21:53

No, you haven't missed anything. If all other things are equal then there is no difference in success rates between surgery and IMRT (survival to 10 years and reaching 10 years disease free) and when you look at 5 year data there is no apparent difference between surgery, IMRT and brachy.

What I was saying was that if a specific man's best chance of cure is advised to be RT + 3 years HT but he doesn't like the idea of HT side effects, he may decide to opt for RT with 1 year of HT, understanding that this might reduce his chance of cure very slightly. Another man may be told that surgery is the best option for him but he decides to opt for AS, understanding that this may be a bit riskier in the long term but more acceptable to him in the short term. Or the man who could have surgery but is frightened of general anaesthetic might opt for radiotherapy.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

Show Most Thanked Posts
User
Posted 17 Mar 2016 at 16:29

Hi David

I'm the same age, and broadly similar pre op stats. I'm now 1 month post op a robot assisted prostatectomy. I'd guess your focus at the moment is on just getting rid of the thing. I wonder if you have the sort of relationship where you can talk things through with your elder brother as well as draw advice and support from this group?

All you can really do is make informed choices . Now that you have the PSA and biopsy results, and are gathering information to shape your choice, it can seem like you may arrive at certainty of decision as to the treatment path you choose, only the next day for some doubt to rear its' head. This is perfectly normal. You will never have all the information, no matter how long you take. Ultimately, your decision on treatment will be from a position of relative ignorance.

As an example of relative ignorance with which we arrive at our decisions( and this is in no way meant to scare you), the side of your prostate that is apparently free of cancer- in reality, an MRI will not often pick up a low grade prostate cancer, and the biopsy doesn't sample the entire gland- it's more like lucky dip. But you'll still have to make a decision based on that incomplete understanding. Doing nothing is a choice, but be sure you arrive at it for the right reasons.

When you think about it, this is  probably much the same as most of the other important decisions you've taken through life. Work towards accepting that element of uncertainty. It sounds like you're doing this already. Take your time,  don't be guided by fear and arrive at a hasty decision- for it is ultimately your decision.

I hope that doesn't sound too  harsh.  

atb for your journey.

 

User
Posted 17 Mar 2016 at 19:31

Hi David welcome to this site and sorry that you have to be here but we are all in the same boat as you either by being the patient or other halves or family, it touches us all.

I was diagnosed in Feb 2015 with PSA 63 Gleason 3+4=7 aggressive PCa confined to the capsule I was only offered HT and RT as my prostate is too close to the rectum wall with a risk of leaving a trace or breaching the wall, either way I did not have the choice to make.

I can only say that for me my PSA went down to 0.5 after six months on HT and following RT has dropped to 0.01 and undetectable, so am in a good place at the moment.

All the side effects of both HT and RT were tolerable although tend to get me down occasionally but my view,is it is better to be alive.

Although I have no libido (part of side effect) and have hot and cold flushes with general fatigue I am glad that I did not have to go through the ED and incontinence issues that so many others have after having a radical prostectomy. It would still have been my decision if a prostectomy had been offered.

There may be others on here that will tell you their story or experiences and once you have divulged all the information from all sources I am sure you will make the right decision for you, unfortunately only you can make it.

You can call the nurses on this site and talk to them for anything that you feel that needs explaining better, they are really knowledgable and will help you tremendously.

Best of luck with whatever treatment path you choose.

Regards Chris/Woody

Life seems different upside down, take another viewpoint

User
Posted 17 Mar 2016 at 20:15

Thanks you two for those helpful replies. Chris/Woody, although your treatments seem to have worked, which is great, are you still on them, and will it be longterm, or have they done their job?

Thanks
David

User
Posted 17 Mar 2016 at 20:40

DW, I am sure the oncologist will explain - if he believes it would be true for you - that all other things being equal, surgery has exactly the same success rate as radiation & hormones in terms of total remission at 10 years, but is more likely to result in permanent side effects. I am always impressed by any hospital that routinely arranges for newly diagnosed men to see both a surgeon and an onco - the opportunity to talk through possible outcomes and impact is priceless.

Good luck with your decision-making

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 17 Mar 2016 at 21:28

Good point Lyn about hospitals that enable you to see both a surgeon and an oncologist. This is what happened to me at Clatterbridge and I was grateful that neither specialist "pushed" their own specialism and just set out the facts as they saw them. Of course that puts the onus on you if you are fortunate enough to have a choice but you can then weigh up the pros and cons of each treatment path and decide what is more tolerable for you in terms of side effects etc etc.

User
Posted 17 Mar 2016 at 21:35

David, I will be on HT for another twelve months with nothing else planned but only time will tell as when the effects of HT wear off after another two years it is possible for my PSA to rise if there is some PCa surviving. No one knows if they are ever cured or if cancer will come back so it will be monitored.

I am 66 at present and have also started the add Asprin trials which will be for the next five years. If something occurs within that time it will be closely monitored and dealt with, I hope.

The hormone treatment has done and will carry on doing its job and I personally think that for my situation it has been the best way forward.

The side effects have been tiredness and some muscle loss, hot and cold flushes day and night, loss of libido and extreme tearfulness for no reason and also when seeing anything happy or sad. whatever way you go for treatment there will be side effects and as Lyn says there will be permanent side effects with surgery. Possibly prepare a list of questions for each of the specialists and see what you are told by them, it may be easier to make your decision then.

Best wishes, Chris/Woody

Life seems different upside down, take another viewpoint

User
Posted 17 Mar 2016 at 21:55

Thank you all.....I was fairly certain I would go for surgery, like my brother 2 weeks ago, but his was just outside the prostate, and I believe mine is within, so maybe RT may work. It's just if it doesn't, I'm in trouble. I'll see what happens tomorrow with the RP guy at Addenbrookes, and get back to you all.

Thanks

David W

User
Posted 17 Mar 2016 at 23:20

Unfortunately, no treatment can 100% guarantee that no cancer cells have escaped even where the cancer is contained within the prostate, though in such cases the risk is much reduced.

This is not a recommendation but there are other treatments apart from surgery and radiation/hormone therapy that patients are not often informed about. This is largely because these are not generally available at treating hospitals and long term outcomes are not so well established. However, some patients feel these can have advantages. Cryotherapy and High Intensity Focused Ultrasound are two of these, the latter being an alternative where the cancer is localised, especially where it is on only one side of the Prostate. Of course, looking at other alternatives will be regarded by some as adding to the dilemma of making a treatment choice but for a few may provide a preferable option for suitable patients prepared to research alternatives.

Barry
User
Posted 18 Mar 2016 at 10:44

Well, just back from my meeting with the surgeon. I had to do another pee strength test and it came out good. He is now the fourth man to feel my prostate in 5 weeks, and this time only he said the side with the 20% cancer does feel a bit firm. This . means that in surgery one nerve bundle will have to be removed, even though it's all within the gland. This I was not expecting. Some lymph nodes too just in case.

He also said there would be only a 40-50% chance of NOT having ED. Another blow. Worse than I thought.

So on Monday I will see someone about RT, preceded by a month of HT to shrink the prostate if I choose this.

Now if RT fails later on, what would happen as a later treatment, as surgery would be off limits now? They say both RT and RP are equal in getting rid of it. And what side effects would these later treatments have in terms of ED, compared to surgery to begin with?

I'm really struggling here. 50-60% chance of ED with surgery. ..and I've only been married 6 years...not fair! How is ED with RT and whatever MAY be needed in a few years?

I will call a nurse to discuss this too.

Thanks guys!

David

User
Posted 18 Mar 2016 at 10:58
Hello. I just thought I'd say we went to Addenbrookes too. Though surgery was never mentioned. My other half was suggested radio therapy or brachytherapy. (Gleason 6) or surveillance. I don't know why but surgery just wasn't mentioned. Only by the Macmillan nurse when we were in a room with her and she gave us all the paperwork of various treatments. Surgery was in the paperwork but the oncologist said radio/brachy best. So referred us to Addenbrookes.

I don't know if you'll see the same chap we see. (You're not allowed to say names on here) but he said my other half would need no hormones whichever treatment he chose. I think because his prostate was normal size.

He had brachytherapy Jan 2015. Although he's had a bad year with side effects. (Prostatitis and radiation induced cystitis) The good news is psa now 0.6 the consultant said if it's below 2 still in 18 months then there is a 90% chance the cancer will not return.

Also a friend of ours had brachy at Addenbrookes when he was 50. He asked whether he could have surgery if it returned. The consultant replied that it won't return. But to answer the question he said he would perform surgery but incontinence is a lot more likely (and ED)

All the best.

Edited by member 18 Mar 2016 at 11:05  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 18 Mar 2016 at 11:14

Hi David,

This is not intended as advice or to influence your decision in any way....

I'm not sure what your clinical  'T' staging is at present?....

Mine was T2b before surgery ( tumour(s) in more than half of one side ) The other side was 'clear' ...

The surgeon told me he would almost certainly remove the nerves on the affected  side....... but he also said it's usual to find evidence of a smaller  tumour on the 'clear' side when it has been dissected in the lab after surgery.

In his words, " T2b's usually turn out to be T2c's "

In my case he was dead right as my histology was uprated from T2b to T2c ( tumour in both sides ) even though biopsies did not pick it up.

I had nerves spared on the 'good' side as the tumour found was only small and well away from the edge of the capsule...

Luther

 

Edited by member 18 Mar 2016 at 11:25  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 18 Mar 2016 at 11:39

Luther, thanks. Mine is probably 2b, one side only, with some PIN on the other side. So when did you have yours done, and any help on ED?!

dAVID

User
Posted 18 Mar 2016 at 12:19
Hi David,

I was given the choice of RT or RP. I chose open RP because I just wanted the thing out, also if it failed I could follow it up with RT (much more difficult the other way round). In terms of ED that was of course a major consideration but not top of the list, I just wanted the Pca sorted. Now 2 weeks post op and feeling pretty good, seeing surgeon on Monday for path results and to have catheter and staples removed. No regrets so far. Best wishes to you with whatever you decide.

Regards

AL

User
Posted 18 Mar 2016 at 13:18

Thanks Al. Was Brachy an option for you? I understand that as mine is contained, is T2a/b, and Gleason is 3+4, PSA 13, I could possibly qualify for Brachy?

David

User
Posted 18 Mar 2016 at 13:40

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

Luther, thanks. Mine is probably 2b, one side only, with some PIN on the other side. So when did you have yours done, and any help on ED?!

dAVID



David,

I had surgery 21 months ago... ( you can check out members profiles by 'clicking' on their avatar.. )

I still suffer with ED ....... but it is improving with the help of medication ( muse ) and I'm pretty confident I will get there eventually....

I use a vacuum pump regularly to help keep the fibrous tissue of the penis healthy meantime...

It can take 2 - 3 years in some cases for remaining nerves to repair so I'm told..

Not what you want to hear I'm sure....

I'm older than you ( 64 ) and have been married for 36 years to a very understanding wife.......so my situation is slightly different in terms of  'time together' etc...

Not everyone who has surgery will suffer with long term side effects, but you really do need to consider all your options before deciding.

On a personal level, I have no regrets about having surgery as I had reliable feedback from the histology report afterwards as to the extent of my disease and a good indication as to how successful the procedure had been.

Everyone is different... there are risks of side effects whatever route you take... there is no easy ride in this game..

You have to choose the route that you feel will give you the best chance of a cure first time around.... hopefully without the need for adjuvant or salvage treatment in the future....

Side effects,and their severity can be managed or overcome in time whichever treatment you decide on..

Luther 
     
 






User
Posted 18 Mar 2016 at 13:41
Hi David

Didn't really discuss rt options , had decided early on to go for surgery. I don't think brachytherapy would have been appropriate anyway as mine is a t3b with some seminal vesicle involvement.

Cheers

AL

User
Posted 18 Mar 2016 at 13:51

and what about HIFU, like Barry said....?

User
Posted 18 Mar 2016 at 14:04
Hi David,

This wasn't mentioned but again probably not suitable for me. I understand that the side effects of hifu can be much less that other treatments.

Cheers AL

User
Posted 18 Mar 2016 at 14:09

David, I should mention that the ed side effects with HT and RT are not permanent and normal service can be resumed after completing HT with a little bit of time for system to wean itself off the hormones.

As you can see it is not an easy decision for you to make and taking all the info in is mind boggling.

Best of luck and hope you are happy with whatever choice you make in the long term.

Regards Chris/Woody

Life seems different upside down, take another viewpoint

 
Forum Jump  
123>
©2025 Prostate Cancer UK