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likely to have PC

User
Posted 12 Feb 2017 at 20:38

 


Hi all,


I've just registered so I am new here. I need your help and if possible, I'm ready to help others aswell.


Sorry for my English, I'm Spanish and although I speak English I'm afraid technical words are going to be difficult for me to translate, so I beg your pardon for my mistakes. 


My husband, 68, is very likely to have PC according to the results of a Multiparametrical Magnetic Resonance. I'll try to transcribe it for you:


 


"Multiparametrical Magnetic Resonance is done by 3Teslas with high pottential  resolution in T2, diffussion with high B values. The prostate is enlarged with and has diameters  “anteroposterior and transverse 4’2 and 5´8. “cráneocaudal diameter  6’1.


At the posterior peripheric zone of  the base and medium thirth a hipointense lesion is detected in T2 with remarkable restriction of the diffusion  and remarkable increase of relief. Size 2’2 cm, transverse diameter x 0’9 diameter  “anteroposterior cráneocaudal”


PI-RADS 5


High possibility cancer clinically significative.


The lesion touches highly the capsule.It is Puffed(I didn’t know how to translate it). And it’s probably that there is tumoral affectation  extraprostatic minimum.


Seminal vesicles  and neurovascular  “paquete” (package?) have normal characteristics . Pelvic ademopatias significative are not identified.


Sorry for this stuff. I’m sweating! I’m not sure you will catch everything as this is technical English.


 


He had had two previous negative biopsies. His PSA right now is 4.2. It has been fluctuating during the ten last years. It has been much higher than now.


He has no problems or symthoms.


 


Can someone tell me something, please? I’m afraid it has gone out of his prostate.


 


By Tuesday he’s seeing his urologist in Madrid. We are taking the test results to him. I’m really scared.


Thanks in advance and good evening from Spain.


 

User
Posted 27 Feb 2017 at 08:07

You are going to drive yourself crazy going round and round like this. What is done is done and cannot be changed no matter how hard you think of it.

Paco's doctors have done nothing wrong. He has a slightly raised PSA so they did a biopsy. He has had two clear biopsies. His PSA goes down as well as up, which is usually a sign of infection not cancer. Medics can't do endless tests on everyone - they have to make decisions based on risk and indicators and there was nothing about Paco's stats that would have suggested he needed further investigation.

Edited by member 27 Feb 2017 at 08:08  | Reason: Not specified

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 21 Jun 2017 at 09:58

Just updating OH latest news.

We saw the uro yesterday.
He said everything is OK as PSA level is 0,04.

Full continent.

Next control by November.

He recommended Cialis 5mg. One pil a day.

When going to have sex, 20mg.

Wish all the best to all of you. May you enjoy summer. We all deserve it.

I'm grateful to this site and people on here that have made our journey easier.
Lola

User
Posted 10 Dec 2017 at 00:15
Feliz Navidad, Lola. One of the very few Spanish phrases I know.

Ulsterman
User
Posted 14 Feb 2017 at 08:27

Morning Lola.
You are no more "psychologically weak" than the rest of us. Cancer is a HUGE and frightening word and causes a lot of us to panic initially.,


It's the not knowing that is hard to take. Once a confirmation of cancer is made and treatment offers decided on you will probably find that you settle into a new "normal".


It's true that life is never the same after the diagnosis, even for those who have non aggressive cancers and are able to go on the Active Surveillance treatment because that becomes their new normal.


We are all different but believe me when I say that we do all understand. You are not being boring or repetitive, you are being a
very worried wife whose husband prefers not to talk openly about his possible cancer.


Perhaps he thinks he is protecting you by not opening up old wounds. Our men can sometimes be very obtuse and I often wonder if they really know us, even after many years of being together.


You don't have to pretend with us at any rate. Panic away on here!!


Best Wishes and good luck to you both


Sandra


****

Edited by member 14 Feb 2017 at 17:41  | Reason: Not specified

We can't control the winds - but we can adjust our sails
User
Posted 14 Feb 2017 at 20:32

Lola,


You are going to have to try really hard to calm down. You risk making yourself ill with worry and that is bound to affect your husband as well. You both need to have as positive an outlook as possible in order to help you cope with Prostate cancer and the potential treatments.


There is every possibility that if your husband does have Prostate cancer that it may be curable and even if it isn't curable it can be treated so as to give your husband as long a life as possible. You won't know whether he has Prostate cancer until the biopsy is done. Remember, I was diagnosed 3.5 years ago with advanced prostate cancer. That means it isn't curable, it will kill me. However, I'm still here, I've enjoyed the last 3.5 years and I'm going to enjoy whatever further time I have left.


Now take a deep breath and another and another and try to relax. Say "I refuse to live in fear of Prostate cancer, I refuse to allow Prostate cancer to blight my life". You can do it. Take heart, go forward with hope, banish fear.


I wish you well.


David

User
Posted 14 Feb 2017 at 21:14

The funny thing is that he has survived cancer before and probably feels quite calm because this is not a new situation to him. Kidney cancer is usually much more aggressive than prostate cancer so hold on to that thought - he beat it before and will beat it again.

Even if he does have some extra prostatic extension, he may still be suitable for surgery or radiotherapy, both of which are curative treatments. If the doctor and your report both say the lymph nodes look clear then these are good signs as well.

Edited by member 14 Feb 2017 at 21:21  | Reason: Not specified

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 15 Feb 2017 at 07:59

Lola,


You are welcome. We will stand with you and support you. We get something out of doing so as well. There's an old English language saying:


"It is better to give than to receive".


David

User
Posted 15 Feb 2017 at 08:05

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member


to give some relief and comfort to a foreign woman who you know nothing about



Ah Lola, you are Spanish, after GB, my favourite country in the whole world is Spain. You come from La Coruña. Galicia, one of my most favourite parts of Spain, the best seafood in the whole world and the Albarino grape, heaven on earth.

User
Posted 26 Feb 2017 at 12:42
Hi Lola

All the very best and welcome.

Although I have not replied before I have been following your postings.

To answer your question. .

Prepare for your meeting on 7th with a few basic questions.

Only when you have a full and complete analysis of your husbands diagnosis can you go to the next stage.

You don't need to make any quick decision yourselves. We are all here to guide and support.


There are links of this site to more information and this is

Our nhs .. National Health Service info.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Cancer-of-the-prostate/Pages/Treatment.aspx


At 68 and assuming he is otherwise fit and healthy. .numerous options will be discussed. Your English is fine. However there should be Spanish general information sheets on many worldwide sites.
Enjoy and relax in the meantime. . I know it can be difficult. . However it's taken me many years to realise .. worry only saps energy today that you may need for tommorrow.
Best wishes
Gordon
User
Posted 07 Mar 2017 at 07:10

Hi Lola
Please remember that you won't find out anything today, so don't build up any expectations. Just support your husband - the biopsy is uncomfortable but not painful - I have had 3 biopsies over last 13 years.
Good luck.
Chris

User
Posted 07 Mar 2017 at 07:26
Good Luck to both of you.

Hope all goes well.

Steve x
User
Posted 07 Mar 2017 at 11:50

buena suerte Lola

Bri x

User
Posted 08 Mar 2017 at 16:46

Well, I hope the positive answer has helped you. He's the expert and he says your husband will not die of it, so please try and believe him.
Good luck to Pablo for the next stage

We can't control the winds - but we can adjust our sails
User
Posted 13 Mar 2017 at 13:36

Hi
I had mine removed on Jan 4 17 by Robot in Leicester. Mine was small and it initially I was deemed contained but after it was deemed T3 . My op went really well . I've not seen anywhere where it can't be used if it's too big.
Al the best

User
Posted 13 Mar 2017 at 15:32

Hi Lola
I did have a scan after I was diagnosed after my biopsy.
The guy how did the bio said it was confined and not spread
The Oncologist couldn't see anything but that may of been the Blood in it after biopsy and he showed me on his screen
The surgeon said it hadn't grown and he showed me it as well .
Don't forget to look at nerve sparing which I had which meant I'm continent and my Gentleman's sausage is coming back but there are risks.
If you're lucky to have a great surgeon like me in Leicester you'll be in good hands .
YouTube is very good if a bit American if you get what I mean .

User
Posted 13 Mar 2017 at 16:07

Hi
I'm not Spanish I'm from Italian stock lol

User
Posted 14 Mar 2017 at 17:34

What are you really worried about Lola? It seems the results are far better than you dared hope - his cancer is only on one side of the prostate and there were only 2 affected cores which means all the other cores were clear.

The Gleason score is intermediate ... Of the small amount of cancer found, the majority of cells were distorted to a 4 and the next most common pattern of distortion was a 3. Anything less than a 3 is not cancer so his second score is the lowest possible. Imagine a football is a 1 and a crazy starfish is a 5; healthy prostate cells are football shaped and aggressive cancer cells are mis-sharpen with bits coming off at all angles like a crazy starfish. The vast majority of your husband's prostate cells are footballs but he has some that are like rugby balls and some like starfish but not like crazy starfish.

All in all, I would be relieved. Hope all becomes clear tomorrow.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 14 Mar 2017 at 17:59

Others will be along Lola but it looks good to me.

We can't control the winds - but we can adjust our sails
User
Posted 14 Mar 2017 at 18:24

The main question for the urologist tomorrow is "are we going for a cure or not?".


If the answer is yes we are, then the options are radical prostatectomy or radiotherapy.


If the answer is no, then possibly active surveillance followed by hormone therapy with early docetaxel chemotherapy.

User
Posted 15 Mar 2017 at 08:03

Not really - they are both G7 which is intermediate risk.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 15 Mar 2017 at 08:49

It shows the majority of the cells in the sample were level 4 and the next most were level 3. That is worse than the other way round.


If life gives you lemons , then make lemonade
User
Posted 16 Mar 2017 at 08:56

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member


Paco has decided to get rid of his prostate and I agree with him. Not sure whether it is the right decision but we are so scared...


I would like to read some suggestions and advices from you.


 



Lola,


I haven't had either a radical prostatectomy or radiotherapy so I don't have an opinion. However, I see you both seem to have already made that choice. 

User
Posted 16 Mar 2017 at 09:35

Whether he has RT or surgery, he will always have to be tested for the rest of his life Lola so don't let that cloud your decision in any way.

In the UK, men wouldn't have all these scans, TAC and gammas that Paco is being told he needs.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 16 Mar 2017 at 12:21

Hey Lola,
From your biopsy results it seems that you have options when it comes to treatments. Your friend sounds like a great resource for you and i would take his advice and not make a decision until you have heard all the options and can compare them to see what is best for Paco.
So far our Da Vinci experience has been good and i am keeping my fingers crossed that his post op PSA comes back undetectable. After that we will deal with his anxiety.
Julie

User
Posted 16 Mar 2017 at 14:04

I know it is very difficult and for my husband like you more so. But i am looking out of the window now and the sun is shining, the blossom is coming on the trees and i am still looking forward to the summer. A time beyond the surgery when we can again enjoy time as a family in the fresh air. Here life has to go on, our children who are only 5 & 7 demand it, you too will come through this time and the difficulties of the present will fade.
Julie

User
Posted 20 Mar 2017 at 22:20

Lola, it seems that the system is so different in Spain that we cannot give you any useful information. Paco has already had more scans than my husband has had in 7 years! In the UK, it varies from hospital to hospital - some would give every man a bone scan while others would do it only where there is reason to suspect bone mets.

In your case, you already know that they do not suspect bone spread ... they would not have offered him the operation if they weren't absolutely convinced that it is contained in the prostate gland. It would be good if you could get some help to develop some strategies for being less panicky.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 21 Mar 2017 at 03:21
Hi,

I hope you manage to get some restful sleep and no more bad dreams.

Take care of yourself.

Steve
User
Posted 21 Mar 2017 at 15:23

Lola,
I am very pleased to hear that you have ongoing support available to you and also that your anxiety has subsided, at least for the time being. I continue to try and get support for my husband, one day he will be ready to accept it.
Julie

User
Posted 25 Mar 2017 at 05:49

Good morning there.

Yesterday my OH had a phone call from the hospital in Madrid. They have given him an appointment for Da Vinci surgery on April 25th.

Still we don't have the post biopsy results : bone and pelvic scan. We are meeting the surgeon next week (coming back to Madrid again). He recommended Da Vinci. I hope he doesn't change his mind about this surgery because of supposed bad results of theese tests. I can't help thinking to myself that something new is going to be shown in his bone and abdomen despite de MP MRI previous to biopsy (4+3 Gleason) said no seminal or nodes alterations.

Just wanted to share it with you.

Have a nice day,

Lola.

User
Posted 25 Mar 2017 at 11:50

Hello Lola. It's probable that although you don't have the results of the scans, those who phoned you do.


They would not have offered  an operation if there is spread and remember they already have the previous MRI and biopsy result showing no seminal or node invasion.

Edited by member 25 Mar 2017 at 14:49  | Reason: Not specified

We can't control the winds - but we can adjust our sails
User
Posted 25 Mar 2017 at 11:57

Your may be right. Your points of view, suggestions and help already bring me some relief :)

I hope once I get used to the new situation I will also be able to help other members with my words.

Thanks a lot.
Lola

User
Posted 29 Mar 2017 at 15:36

Hi there.

I want and need to share last news: Paco's bone and abdomen scan are clear, therefore date for Da Vinci is confirmed on April 25th.

The consultant has been explicitly and nice. At asking him about Paco's prognosis he said "que sí, mujer, que todo irá bien" (Yes, woman, it's going to be OK)

I'm aware of the possibility of Gleason to be upgraded on post operation histological results, but from MP MRI and other image tests the PCa doesn't seem to be spread. Crossing our fingers.

During the procedure they will take frozen samples into lab so they can decide what is necessary to be removed or spared.

Thanks for your support. Wishing to read good news from all of you.

Now on a trip to Western Spain, close to Portugal to meet our siblings and enjoy the beautiful spring there, in Extremadura, the place we both come from despite living in Galicia.

Best wishes,

Lola

User
Posted 29 Mar 2017 at 16:13

Really pleased to hear your news Lola. I hope that this gives you some peace so that you can enjoy this break with your family.
Julie

User
Posted 29 Mar 2017 at 16:16

Thoughts are with you Lola. Having a plan really helped us and it sounds like you have a great set of doctors and a robust plan.

Enjoy the time with your family

Clare

User
Posted 29 Mar 2017 at 18:32

Brilliant news Lola. Enjoy your holiday.


Hugs


Eleanor


x

User
Posted 04 Apr 2017 at 13:00

Lola, chemo is only used for men who are incurable as prostate cancer cannot be cured with chemo.

RT and HT would only be used if your husband's surgery failed.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 22 Apr 2017 at 22:03
Lola

I can only give you my own experience in a UK Hospitial. I went into theatre about 0830 came round in the recovery room about 1230 had a cup of coffee and two slices of toast and was in the Urology ward by 1330.

My wife came to see at about 1800. I was tired and slept quite alot. The ward was quite noisy at night and I did not get much sleep in the night.

We keep telling you to relax, it is a major operation but most guys are home in one or two days.

My wife enjoyed a couple of good night's sleep while i was being looked after in Hospitial.

Take care and stop worrying.

Thanks Chris

User
Posted 22 Apr 2017 at 22:17

John's operation started at 4.30pm and finished around 10pm - the hospital told me to go home and come back later! He had a cup of tea about 2am before he was transferred to the ward. He was in hospital for 5 days I think, but his was open surgery not Da Vinci.

It may be another difference between the UK and Spain but over here, we wouldn't expect men to be in an ICU after RP. They are taken from the operating theatre to a recovery room where they wake up from the anaesthetic and then they go back to the ward (or their room if they have one). If someone ends up in intensive care after RP it is usually because something went very wrong :-(

I imagine the nursing staff would rather not have you there all night?

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 22 Apr 2017 at 22:48

At Southampton they have ITU wards where you go immediately post op , which is completely different to ICU altogether. Just better care for the first couple of hours and not emergency care. Fingers , toes and everything crossed for you x


If life gives you lemons , then make lemonade
User
Posted 23 Apr 2017 at 11:17

Reanimacion - the best translation i can see is recovery room. This is where everyone goes after an operation to make sure they wake up normally after the operation. There are also ITU's or HDU's high dependency units where he could be taken for a few hours after the op particularly if there has been any bleeding to make sure he is fit before going back to the ward. This is not the same as ICU intensive care.
In our case OH went down for his op at about 12:30 and was in the recovery room before 17:00. His surgeon then phoned me to let me know everything had gone well and give me the details of the surgery. He also told OH the same but he didn't remember any of it as he was still a bit sleepy.
He then came back to his room at about 19:30.
As OH was in a side room on his own i was allowed to wait there for OH to come back although I did go out in the afternoon for a few hours. He then had some food and a cup of tea and I left at about 21:30 much to OH's horror as he was still panicking quite a lot.
The next morning OH was up and and walking and left hospital about 18:00 the day after his operation.
Don't​ worry. Paco will be well looked after and remember blood in his catheter is perfectly normal if a little alarming at first.
All the best. Julie

Edited by member 23 Apr 2017 at 11:17  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 25 Apr 2017 at 09:59

Hey Lola,
thinking of you and Paco today. Hope all goes well.
Julie

User
Posted 25 Apr 2017 at 13:19

Keep strong today Lola.. big hugs

Clare

User
Posted 25 Apr 2017 at 13:45

Be thinking of you and Paco today. All fingers and toes crossed! Tom

User
Posted 25 Apr 2017 at 16:21
Lola,

Wishing you both the Best of Luck.

Hope everthing goes ok.

Steve
User
Posted 27 Apr 2017 at 09:17

Hi all

As some of you know Paco was operated last Tuesday. The procedure was long as the lesion was larger than expected.

The surgeon came inform an said he had removed left seminal vesicle, nerve and inguinal nodes. In panic I asked whether capsule had broken. He said "no, I don't mean so. Keep calm".

Next morning, when coming to see how Paco was going I asked again about inguinal nodes: were they affected? He said of course all the stuff would be analyzed but he didn't think so, an said again we must keep peacefully.

Now he is calmly listening to the radio. He has been a little in pain during night because of CO2 inside, but he is feeling better now.

Hard evening fur us too while waiting for OH to be taken into ICU after op, in the room for family and visitors. Besides our own anxiety and concern, an old lady happened to pass away and family didn't stop crying, screaming , getting out of control, getting sick and being attended by medicals etc etc.

Thanks to all for your supporting and help.💛🌹

Love, Lola.

User
Posted 27 Apr 2017 at 14:08

Ah Lola, what a stressful time you have had.

The worst is over now. Paco will recover, maybe slowly, but he will recover.

It is sad that somebody else lost a loved one and that you had to listen to their distress, and I am sure you are grateful that you aren't in that situation.

You are doing well for your Paco and family. Be strong and continue to be brave. He is a strong man and he will be well again I'm sure.

*********

We can't control the winds - but we can adjust our sails
User
Posted 27 Apr 2017 at 14:19

As Johsan says the worst is behind you, you can now see Paco getting stronger each day. All the best. Julie

User
Posted 27 Apr 2017 at 15:16
Hi Lola
The op is now over and so Paco needs time to recover as this is major surgery but you need some time to relax as well. Paco will probably be pretty bruised and a bit tender for a few weeks so it's maybe a good time for you both to maybe just sit and chill for a bit. Everything is now just a waiting game and you can't do anything about what might happen tomorrow so try to just get as much out of today as you can.
Between you you will cope so now just a step at a time.
Look after each other.

Kevan
User
Posted 27 Apr 2017 at 23:18

All best wishes Lola . Fingers crossed for a smooth recovery and back to family times xx

User
Posted 29 Apr 2017 at 19:45

Hi all.

Updating Paco's recovery from da Vinci.

Still in hospital since Tuesday.

He was going to be discharged tomorrow but he will not due to some lymphatic fluid in the place his nodes used to be before removal 😏

Still blood in urine and drenaje catheter

No problem to poo.

Awaiting biopsy results. I don't know for how long 😕.

Scared because of the fact that nodes were finally removed.

Long days here.

I miss my house but mainly I miss a life disease-fear-free.

Thank you all your support.

Regards,

Lola

User
Posted 29 Apr 2017 at 21:49

It wasn't easy for you, Chris. I personally know, in adition to undergo OH cancer twice, how poorly one feels when suffering a mental disorder. Everything gets magnified and the suffering is unbearable.

Hope you are dealing well with both issues. I assume you are on treatment? Lithium?

I must take lots of pills to prevent anxiety and COD
Otherwise I couldn't stand this situation.

There are times in life when you don't think you can carry on.

I sympathize with you.

Something strange has just happened to Paco: he suddenly needed to pee. He then let it go and, despite the catheter, he started to pee freely. I wonder whether this is a good or bad matter.

Regards and my best wishes to you, Chris.

Lola

User
Posted 30 Apr 2017 at 20:14

You should try to calm down Lola, you seem to find it very difficult to trust the doctors even though they have many years of experience and know what they are doing. If the surgeon had opened Paco up for surgery and seen loads of spread to terrible places, he would have stitched him up again without doing the operation. If there is some small breach well that is no big deal really - they would just talk to you about the possibility of radiotherapy or hormones.

The important thing about the word 'extended' is what is its context ... what is the whole phrase or sentence?

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 30 Apr 2017 at 21:47

I think it might mean either radical prostatectomy with lymph node removal or radical prostatectomy with nerve bundles not spared.

Since the surgeon already told you that the nodes had been removed and had mentioned that the nerves had been removed (possibly on one side?) this is not new information for you. He also told you that he didn't think the lymph nodes were affected so hold on to that thought until you get the proper results.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 03 May 2017 at 09:35

Hi Lola, in the UK we usually get the biopsy results at an appointment about 6 weeks post-op and not many men get to see their consultant in 7 to 10 days so it must be quite different in Spain, I think.

Re lymph nodes - in England it depends on the surgeon and hospital. Some remove the nodes near the prostate automatically and some remove them only if they are suspicious. At our hospital, they do not remove the lymph nodes in keyhole or robotic RP so if they think the nodes need to come out you have open surgery. Removing the lymph nodes can happen with the nerve bundles saved, and removing the nerves can happen with the lymph nodes left in place, or they can all be removed.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 03 May 2017 at 21:49

They have already told you it is normal, you should really try to trust the specialists more as they are in a better place to judge than we are!

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 06 May 2017 at 06:57
Lola

Because of my ongoing problems I have been catheterised on about ten separate occasions over the three years, the removal of the Catheter has never been painful, it has varied from a strange sensation to feeling nothing. We keep saying this, stop worrying.

Thanks Chris
User
Posted 06 May 2017 at 09:14

Hi Lola don't worry to much about the removal of the catheter I never felt anything when mine was removed other than a sense of relief


 


 

User
Posted 06 May 2017 at 14:51

Hi Lola,

When I had a catheter I was in hospital and the sister asked a student nurse if she'd like to remove it. I was worried but she told me she'd done it and I didn't realise it was out.

Arthur

User
Posted 10 May 2017 at 09:05

So glad it's all good news for you so far Lola. Long may it continue

We can't control the winds - but we can adjust our sails
User
Posted 10 May 2017 at 10:31

Lola
All sounds really good so far. Especially total removal and good continence. The rest will come with time. Best wishes


If life gives you lemons , then make lemonade
User
Posted 10 May 2017 at 21:49

Thank you for the update Lola. All the best

Clare

User
Posted 14 May 2017 at 07:24

Hi, Lyn, I'll try to translate the biopsy report,
Hope you may now understand. Sorry for my English. Moreover technical words are sometimes hard to translate.

-Radical Prostatectomy:

.Prostatic Acinar adenocarcinome grade Gleason 7 (4+3)
-Tumor takes up 10% volume of the prostate.
-Localised on left hand lobe of prostate.
-Extraprostatic extension is not identified.
-All margins are clear.
Perineural invasion is identified,
Vascular invasion on deferent conducts and seminal vesicles in nor identified.
.pT2a


-Vesical neck:prostatic tissue with no evidence of tumoral lesion
-Vesical neck, medium lobe: `prostatic tissue with no evidence of tumoral lesin
-Linfadenectomy: five nodes isolated (? insulated, separated???) with no met in any of them.

May all have a nice Sunday,

Lola.
-

User
Posted 20 May 2017 at 13:02

This is tough for someone to answer as you have to use your own judgement Lola. Many people including myself had episodes of bleeding post surgery. One day I did a massive blood wee but had overstretched my bladder. There are wounds healing and scabs moving so some bleeding is inevitable. Just monitor it but heavy bleeding needs A&E


If life gives you lemons , then make lemonade
User
Posted 21 Jun 2017 at 10:23

Glad the results were so positive Lola.

Time to appreciate the here and now and not worry too much about what might or might not happen in the future.

Enjoy your time together

We can't control the winds - but we can adjust our sails
User
Posted 22 Jun 2017 at 10:54

Great news Lola. A happy consultant is a very good thing. Have a great summer.

User
Posted 08 Dec 2017 at 17:03

Hi there:

Just came on to the site to congratulate Chris on his journey. So happy to hear such good news.

And by the way, I'd like to share something: My OH PSA test six weeks after RP was 0.04. Nowadays, few days before next visit to uro, it has come up to 0.05. Do you think it's something to be concerned o scared about?
You knou you can't help your mind going round and round.

Best wishes to all of you,

Lola.

User
Posted 08 Dec 2017 at 23:14

Lola , this cancer is so worrying always. It’s nasty in that it can be so long without cure. The results you are showing at the moment should be neglected in reality. In honesty most hospitals won’t offer RT until 0.2 is reached or if 3 rises are amseen in a row!! And here I am at PSA12 and my Onco isn’t wanting to nuke me nor castrate me , and I still feel safe in his hands ....
Get through xmas ——its mostly a slow growing disease and I aint worrying !


If life gives you lemons , then make lemonade
User
Posted 08 Dec 2017 at 23:27

Thanks for answering, Chris. Really appreciate it.

And remember: when I say I'm glad to hear of your good news, it's a real feeling that comes from deep inside me. I have always been following your journey. And at the same time, thankful for your help and support.
I wish you the happiest Xmast.

Lola.

User
Posted 09 Dec 2017 at 23:34
Hi Lola,

Hope you can take the great advice you had here and enjoy the Christmas period. Easy to say I know but really meant - here is wishing you peace

Clare
User
Posted 26 Dec 2017 at 10:10

HI there.

First of all: Merry Xmas.

My best wishes to all of you - of us- fighting PC or worried about it, awaiting for results, suffering, trying to get some relief, concerned about it in general.

In Spain we say "el miedo es libre" -fear is free-. Sometimes we can't help feeling fear stil if this f**** desease doesn't seem to be getting worse.

May next year bring good news and comfort to our souls.

Tomorrow the uro is seing OH for the second time after surgery, seven months ago. His PSA has risen from 0.04 to 0.05, but I'm trying hard not to give much relevance to this fact and enjoy Xmas with my family. We'll see what the uro says about it.

Your help, since the moment this journey started and panic took over me, has been amazing. That's why now, about to see the doctor again, I want to say THANKS for having teached me to manage fear, to get some knowledge on this topic, to share a part of my live with you, because we are in the same boat.

Big hugs xxx

Lola.

User
Posted 26 Dec 2017 at 12:24
Hi Lola
Hope you are enjoying your Christmas and hopefully the New Year will start off with some good news for you. The PSA readings are under 0.1 so basically undetectable and let's hope it continues that way.
Wishing you and your family a very happy New Year.

Kevan
User
Posted 26 Dec 2017 at 12:49
Big hugs to you Lola, xxx
User
Posted 27 Dec 2017 at 13:13

It's good news Lola that the Consultant isn't concerned.

Time to relax, see in a New year with hope in your heart.

Best Wishes to you and yours X

Sandra

We can't control the winds - but we can adjust our sails
User
Posted 04 Jan 2018 at 08:44

Hi Lola, Viridec is called Vitaros in the UK and there are quite a few posts about it on here - some people find it effective.

Can't help with the blood in the urine thing except that he might have a bit of an infection. In the UK that would definitely not be an emergency hospital thing but perhaps just mention it to the specialist doing the colonoscopy. Fortunately the bladder and the bowel are not connected so hopefully it won't stop the appointment from going ahead.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 08 Jun 2018 at 21:59

Irrelevant?? Lola may chose to go somewhere else or seek a different consultant if armed with knowledge she decides her current treatment options are not optimal. . BTW I am not saying they are! But isnt wider knowledge, experience and mutual assistance not the primary functions of this site??

User
Posted 09 Jun 2018 at 13:26

Hello Lola,


I realise I’ve had different treatment to you husband but my last four PSA results are - 0.01, 0.04, 0.08 and 0.18


My oncologist doesn’t seem too concerned and thinks it might even out, she said that unless it reached 2.0 they wouldn’t take any further action on my behalf.


Just to keep any eye on things she wants to see me in 4 months instead of the 6 monthly appointments I’ve been having.


Best wishes,


Arthur

Edited by member 09 Jun 2018 at 18:21  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 25 Jun 2018 at 07:59
Ultrasensitive PSA test is anything that mesures below 0.1 so your figures are Ultrasensitive.

Pre Ultrasensitive less than 0.1 was considered undetectable simply because you could not detect PSA below this level. Many people still consider less than 0.1 as undetectable.



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User
Posted 12 Feb 2017 at 21:37

Hard to say based on the translation as it loses some of the inference and context but it seems from what you have given us that his pelvic lymph nodes, seminal vesicles and nerve bundles (the paquete) look clear. It could be that they have seen minimal extra prostatic extension (it is just starting to escape the gland) or they could be saying that as a minimum, it has escaped the gland.

Certainly the scan is highly indicative of cancer but remember that the only way for it to be diagnosed for certain is by biopsy - hopefully they will arrange that on Tuesday. No point being scared - at age 68 his PSA is only a little higher than would be considered normal so if it is cancer, there is good reason to hope that it will be treatable.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 12 Feb 2017 at 21:45

I really appreciate your answer. It helps. Thanks a lot.

You know, I can't hel pbeing in panic.

Thanks again.

User
Posted 12 Feb 2017 at 22:42

Actually even in the Spanish text I can't either tell whether they have seen minimal extraprostatic extension or that as a minimum, it has escaped the gland. It's not clear to me.
I have read about your husband and father in law. I'm happy that everything is going right now.
Thanks agan.

User
Posted 12 Feb 2017 at 22:47

I really appreciate your answer. It helps. Thanks a lot.

You know, I can't hel pbeing in panic.

Thanks again.

User
Posted 12 Feb 2017 at 22:54

My father in law died - my father and husband are doing fine :-/

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 13 Feb 2017 at 08:15

Sorry for the loss of your father in law, but happy to read your dad and husband are doing well.

User
Posted 13 Feb 2017 at 08:24

Lola,


Your English is excellent, no need for any apology. I wish my Spanish was as good. However, I do know the most important Spanish word of all - Cerveza.


Don't panic. Even if you get the worst news when you go to Madrid there is still much that can be done to extend and improve your husband's quality of life. Click on my name and have a look at my profile, I was diagnosed with advanced prostate cancer over 3.5 years ago and I'm still here and enjoying life and Cerveza.


Post more when you've been to Madrid and we will all try to help you.


David

Edited by member 13 Feb 2017 at 08:44  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 13 Feb 2017 at 08:35
Thanks a lot for your answer. I hope my husband will be as well as you and continues to be as happy as you seem to be.

It's helpful when somebody is aware of your sorrows and say something like you said above.

Trying to take it easy ;) Cerveza will be the best and necessary word of you come to Spain.

Thanks again. Doing the arrangements for the trip right now. Long ride to Madrid.

Big hug.
User
Posted 13 Feb 2017 at 23:18

I am already in Madrid. Tomorrow at 5 o'clock the urologist is seeing my husband . I hope it doesn't take long time for the biopsy. I am really scared about the results.

Today it's sad and funny to remember that happy moment when we first went to him and he said " I don't think it is necessary to do the resonance since his PSA has not raised and two previous biopsies have been negative, but it's OK, I'll sign the prescription for you.;"

(I must say we have a " private security/insurance/ or whatever it may be called in English, I don't know, sorry).

At this very moment I'm wondering why his previous urologist in our city made my hub undergo two biopsies but no resonance before or after those biopsies . And I also wonder why none of the samples showed there is a tumor, according to the resonance this new doctor prescribed.

Hope I can sleep.

Good night and sorry for my English.

User
Posted 14 Feb 2017 at 07:54

My husband is still sleeping. He is able to sleep although he's seeing the uro at 5 o'clock. We'll see what he says about his resonance showing an area likely to be Pca. For sure my husband will have his third biopsy, this time being aware that there " something" in his prostate according to the image..

Sorry if I am being boring to you or repetitive but I need to talk about it.

Our life used to be nice, surrounded by our children and grandchildren. I am afraid it is going to change into a worried and sad life.

Thirty some years ago, at the age of 35, he had one kidney removed as he had cancer. It was not extended and we have happily forgotten about it
Now, after so many years, panic is again a part of our life.

I am afraid to not be able to pretend I am not in panic in the presence of him. I am psychologically weak.

Best wishes to all of you who are suffering because of this stuff

User
Posted 14 Feb 2017 at 08:27

Morning Lola.
You are no more "psychologically weak" than the rest of us. Cancer is a HUGE and frightening word and causes a lot of us to panic initially.,


It's the not knowing that is hard to take. Once a confirmation of cancer is made and treatment offers decided on you will probably find that you settle into a new "normal".


It's true that life is never the same after the diagnosis, even for those who have non aggressive cancers and are able to go on the Active Surveillance treatment because that becomes their new normal.


We are all different but believe me when I say that we do all understand. You are not being boring or repetitive, you are being a
very worried wife whose husband prefers not to talk openly about his possible cancer.


Perhaps he thinks he is protecting you by not opening up old wounds. Our men can sometimes be very obtuse and I often wonder if they really know us, even after many years of being together.


You don't have to pretend with us at any rate. Panic away on here!!


Best Wishes and good luck to you both


Sandra


****

Edited by member 14 Feb 2017 at 17:41  | Reason: Not specified

We can't control the winds - but we can adjust our sails
User
Posted 14 Feb 2017 at 08:46

Thank a lot for your support, Sandra.

I've promised to myself to be strong in case the biopsy he's supposed to be having after the uro will see the resonance of his prostate brings bad news.

Crossing my fingers.

Seven hours left to see the doctor.!!

Best regards and thankfulness for your nice post.

User
Posted 14 Feb 2017 at 18:20

Back from the uro.

Honestly, deep inside me there was a little hope to listen it wasn't that bad. But he didn't say much more than the mp MRI report: the lesion is highly likely to be a PC.

I asked him about "minimum extraprostatic affectation" as referred on mp MRI . He says yes, maybe,. But we need to get further information from biopsy.

I am devastated. We still don't have an appointment for his biopsy . This period is going to be unbearable for us, despite hubby pretends that nothing serious is happening. He is somehow a kind of hero. His behavior when he had his left kidney removed at age of 35 was amazing. He had a kidney C

He was supporting me instead of me supporting him. I am ashamed of myself and proud of him.

In short, life has suddenly changed.

His PSA is 4.2 and has no symptoms of prostate disease, but cancer seems to be stuck on him.

Two previous negative biopsies.

In case there is an extraprostatic lesion, do you thing it is treatable?

No affectation on vesicles or nerves and no significative adenopathy .

I am as sad, anxious and terrified that I can't hardly write.

Best to all of you.

Lola

User
Posted 14 Feb 2017 at 20:32

Lola,


You are going to have to try really hard to calm down. You risk making yourself ill with worry and that is bound to affect your husband as well. You both need to have as positive an outlook as possible in order to help you cope with Prostate cancer and the potential treatments.


There is every possibility that if your husband does have Prostate cancer that it may be curable and even if it isn't curable it can be treated so as to give your husband as long a life as possible. You won't know whether he has Prostate cancer until the biopsy is done. Remember, I was diagnosed 3.5 years ago with advanced prostate cancer. That means it isn't curable, it will kill me. However, I'm still here, I've enjoyed the last 3.5 years and I'm going to enjoy whatever further time I have left.


Now take a deep breath and another and another and try to relax. Say "I refuse to live in fear of Prostate cancer, I refuse to allow Prostate cancer to blight my life". You can do it. Take heart, go forward with hope, banish fear.


I wish you well.


David

User
Posted 14 Feb 2017 at 21:14

The funny thing is that he has survived cancer before and probably feels quite calm because this is not a new situation to him. Kidney cancer is usually much more aggressive than prostate cancer so hold on to that thought - he beat it before and will beat it again.

Even if he does have some extra prostatic extension, he may still be suitable for surgery or radiotherapy, both of which are curative treatments. If the doctor and your report both say the lymph nodes look clear then these are good signs as well.

Edited by member 14 Feb 2017 at 21:21  | Reason: Not specified

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 14 Feb 2017 at 22:52

David, Lyn, you are amazing. You can't imagine how it helps knowing that you are spending part of your time to give some relief and comfort to a foreign woman who you know nothing about. I appreciate it to the button of my soul..

Don't fear for me. This time I am thirty years older and, moreover, I have been under psychiatric treatment for years as I tended to be obsessive and extremely paranoid about my family sicknesses. At the minimum trouble I lost control. Now, thanks to my psychiatrist and experience in dealing with my emotions, I am capable to hide anxiety or suffering so as not to harm my family.

I promise I will be strong enough to behave like a normal person, I mean, supporting N husband

User
Posted 14 Feb 2017 at 23:03

Sorry, my post was sent before being finished by accident.

I just wanted to thank you for your support. it would be still harder for me going through all this without somebody to listen to me, to give advice and to say that my husband's problem is likely to be solved.

Good night!

User
Posted 15 Feb 2017 at 07:59

Lola,


You are welcome. We will stand with you and support you. We get something out of doing so as well. There's an old English language saying:


"It is better to give than to receive".


David

User
Posted 15 Feb 2017 at 08:05

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member


to give some relief and comfort to a foreign woman who you know nothing about



Ah Lola, you are Spanish, after GB, my favourite country in the whole world is Spain. You come from La Coruña. Galicia, one of my most favourite parts of Spain, the best seafood in the whole world and the Albarino grape, heaven on earth.

User
Posted 15 Feb 2017 at 08:13

I wish we could enjoy having Albarino and seafood happily and in good Heath together.

User
Posted 26 Feb 2017 at 10:42

Hi there from Spain.

We are new in this journey, still don't know what it's going to be like. Appointed for his third biopsy on March 7th, this time having been detected a lesion by MRI.

I've a question. When is HT or RT or prostate removing indicated?

I read about all these resources being used and I'm confused.

I wish the best to all of you.

Enjoy the sunday.

Lola.

User
Posted 26 Feb 2017 at 12:42
Hi Lola

All the very best and welcome.

Although I have not replied before I have been following your postings.

To answer your question. .

Prepare for your meeting on 7th with a few basic questions.

Only when you have a full and complete analysis of your husbands diagnosis can you go to the next stage.

You don't need to make any quick decision yourselves. We are all here to guide and support.


There are links of this site to more information and this is

Our nhs .. National Health Service info.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Cancer-of-the-prostate/Pages/Treatment.aspx


At 68 and assuming he is otherwise fit and healthy. .numerous options will be discussed. Your English is fine. However there should be Spanish general information sheets on many worldwide sites.
Enjoy and relax in the meantime. . I know it can be difficult. . However it's taken me many years to realise .. worry only saps energy today that you may need for tommorrow.
Best wishes
Gordon
User
Posted 27 Feb 2017 at 07:20

Thaks for your reply.

I know that we all, members on this site, have sometime felt anxious or continue to be. In Spain we say "Fear is free". We mean, we can't help feeling scared.

Paco is healthy, yes, despite having suffered of arrhythmia five years ago, he's strong and works hard in our garden. Never tired or in pain. And he doesnt's seem to be extremely worried about his biopsy, Maybe deep inside he is, but he doesn't show his worries. I am feeling poorly. I'm coming on this site all day long and becoming happy when I see some of you are getting on well.

On the one hand, I can't wait for the biopsy to be done, but on the other hand, I come into panic when I think of it coming. You know this kind of feeling I guess.

It's saddly funny that somebody feels really well nd healthy but medical tests say that something is happening inside your body.

There is something I do not understand. He has had two negative biopsies before but his urologist here NEVER ORDERED A RMI of his prostate. Just sonography, but not rectal ones, that, maybe, they show more accurate image, don't they?

If it were not for the advice of his cousin (he has a lymphoma and lately PCa too) he'd still have a PI RADS 5 and nobody would be aware of it. That's why the new biopsy. His PSA is 4.2 nd has no symtoms.

Sorry for my long post, but I needed to talk.

The best to you all.

Lola.

User
Posted 27 Feb 2017 at 08:07

You are going to drive yourself crazy going round and round like this. What is done is done and cannot be changed no matter how hard you think of it.

Paco's doctors have done nothing wrong. He has a slightly raised PSA so they did a biopsy. He has had two clear biopsies. His PSA goes down as well as up, which is usually a sign of infection not cancer. Medics can't do endless tests on everyone - they have to make decisions based on risk and indicators and there was nothing about Paco's stats that would have suggested he needed further investigation.

Edited by member 27 Feb 2017 at 08:08  | Reason: Not specified

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 27 Feb 2017 at 08:18

Thanks, Lyn, for being always there to help.


 


Yes, I must calm down. I'll try.


Hug,


 


Lola

User
Posted 06 Mar 2017 at 11:06

Thanks, Lyn, for being always there to help.

Yes, I must calm down. I'll try.
Hug,

Lola

User
Posted 06 Mar 2017 at 11:21

So sorry, did something wrong with "copy-paste".
Actually my post was trying to ask someone to write the link to toolkit for me to copy and translate later for my husband. I'm in the car and it's not easy to write on the mobile.
Thanks in advance and sorry.

User
Posted 07 Mar 2017 at 06:23

Good morning.
The day has come. My hub is having a biopsy today at 15'30.
His PI RADS is 5 and I am in panic.
Trying to keep calm and not to harm him. I need to be strong enough to help him.

Lola.

User
Posted 07 Mar 2017 at 07:10

Hi Lola
Please remember that you won't find out anything today, so don't build up any expectations. Just support your husband - the biopsy is uncomfortable but not painful - I have had 3 biopsies over last 13 years.
Good luck.
Chris

User
Posted 07 Mar 2017 at 07:26
Good Luck to both of you.

Hope all goes well.

Steve x
User
Posted 07 Mar 2017 at 11:50

buena suerte Lola

Bri x

User
Posted 08 Mar 2017 at 15:36

Hello there.

Yesterday my husband had his third biopsy. This time not a f**** blind one, but an ultrasound targeted one consequently to a previous MP MRI. As he has become used to going through them, he didn't complain. No pain, no blood, etc.

The doctor said he was certain to have "caught" the cancer in the needle in case it results to be malignant. Unfortunately there is a high likelihood it is, but at least he gave us some relief, as he said " your hub won't die of prostate cancer". He was a nice Argentinian guy,( hhmmmm, nice optimistic people the Argentinians), but he is a relevant doctor in Madrid. That's the upside part. Good enough to bring us some peace whilst waiting for the test results in one week.
Best wishes to all and thanks for your support.


User
Posted 08 Mar 2017 at 16:46

Well, I hope the positive answer has helped you. He's the expert and he says your husband will not die of it, so please try and believe him.
Good luck to Pablo for the next stage

We can't control the winds - but we can adjust our sails
User
Posted 13 Mar 2017 at 11:54

Hi all, I have a question, maybe some experienced member on here can answer to me: my question is, can every PC be removed by Da vinci robot or only small tumors?

We are expecting biopsy results tomorrow and I'm uneasily searching in order to be aware of all possible remedies.
Thanks in advance,
Lola

User
Posted 13 Mar 2017 at 13:36

Hi
I had mine removed on Jan 4 17 by Robot in Leicester. Mine was small and it initially I was deemed contained but after it was deemed T3 . My op went really well . I've not seen anywhere where it can't be used if it's too big.
Al the best

User
Posted 13 Mar 2017 at 14:46

Thanks for your reply, Tony. I'm content that you're doing well.
By the way, did you have a. MRI done before operation? In case you did, was your tumor image showed on it?
My hub's tumor was seen, not sure whether this image is reliable or the stuff may be later be deemed bigger than on MRI.
You know someone's' mind can't help going round and round the same issue whilst expecting diagnosis.

The best to you,
Lola

User
Posted 13 Mar 2017 at 15:32

Hi Lola
I did have a scan after I was diagnosed after my biopsy.
The guy how did the bio said it was confined and not spread
The Oncologist couldn't see anything but that may of been the Blood in it after biopsy and he showed me on his screen
The surgeon said it hadn't grown and he showed me it as well .
Don't forget to look at nerve sparing which I had which meant I'm continent and my Gentleman's sausage is coming back but there are risks.
If you're lucky to have a great surgeon like me in Leicester you'll be in good hands .
YouTube is very good if a bit American if you get what I mean .

User
Posted 13 Mar 2017 at 15:46

Not sure 'Gentleman's sausage' will translate into Spanish too well, Tony :-)

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 13 Mar 2017 at 15:48

Imagination helps 🤣

User
Posted 13 Mar 2017 at 15:55
Actuallly we also use that eatable word to describe that item😉. And pretty many more. The Spaniards are fond of "funny synonyms". We have an endless list of them from "sausage" to "sirloin", upperin delicatessen stage.
User
Posted 13 Mar 2017 at 16:07

Hi
I'm not Spanish I'm from Italian stock lol

User
Posted 14 Mar 2017 at 17:21

Hi.

Hub finally has PC..

I'M not sure about the reading of the biopsy and on the other hand it's hard for me to translate the report from pathology.

I can say he has 4+3=7 Gleason.

Eight samples taken, 0 positive right side of the prostate. Left, 2 samples positive.

PSA 4'2

Could you give me some information about the meaning?

Tomorrow seeing urologist.

We are really worried.

Lola


User
Posted 14 Mar 2017 at 17:34

What are you really worried about Lola? It seems the results are far better than you dared hope - his cancer is only on one side of the prostate and there were only 2 affected cores which means all the other cores were clear.

The Gleason score is intermediate ... Of the small amount of cancer found, the majority of cells were distorted to a 4 and the next most common pattern of distortion was a 3. Anything less than a 3 is not cancer so his second score is the lowest possible. Imagine a football is a 1 and a crazy starfish is a 5; healthy prostate cells are football shaped and aggressive cancer cells are mis-sharpen with bits coming off at all angles like a crazy starfish. The vast majority of your husband's prostate cells are footballs but he has some that are like rugby balls and some like starfish but not like crazy starfish.

All in all, I would be relieved. Hope all becomes clear tomorrow.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 14 Mar 2017 at 17:59

Others will be along Lola but it looks good to me.

We can't control the winds - but we can adjust our sails
User
Posted 14 Mar 2017 at 18:24

The main question for the urologist tomorrow is "are we going for a cure or not?".


If the answer is yes we are, then the options are radical prostatectomy or radiotherapy.


If the answer is no, then possibly active surveillance followed by hormone therapy with early docetaxel chemotherapy.

User
Posted 14 Mar 2017 at 20:26

I really appreciate your replies. They make me feel better.

Thanks a lot to the three of you. You make this site a calm and relieving place in the mid 0f the storm.
I'll translate your posts to Paco, my OH.
THE BEST TO YOU

Lola

User
Posted 15 Mar 2017 at 06:42

Good morning from Spain.
Meeting urologist this morning.
I've V read on the Internet they 4+3=7 Gleason is worse than 3+4=7 .
My husband is 4+3.=7.
My question is , there is a big difference between them?
Lola

User
Posted 15 Mar 2017 at 08:03

Not really - they are both G7 which is intermediate risk.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
User
Posted 15 Mar 2017 at 08:49

It shows the majority of the cells in the sample were level 4 and the next most were level 3. That is worse than the other way round.


If life gives you lemons , then make lemonade
 
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