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Rise in PSA again and back to the Onco

User
Posted 27 Aug 2020 at 23:54

Hi all. I hope you are all doing well.

My OH had his latest 3 monthly PSA result today and we have had another rise to 1.1. The third rise in 9 months.

After a full round of treatment back in 2017 (see bio for full details) my OH’s PSA stayed steady at 0.1 for 2.5 years until February this year when it rose to 0.2. Then in May it was up again to 0.5 and today its at 1.1 and our GP has referred the OH back to our oncologist and we are awaiting an appointment.

Can anyone give me an idea of what to expect now. Will the oncologist put him back on HT (he was taken off in Jan 2019) and I am guessing he’ll have scans now before the onco tells us anything!

We were told a rise in PSA was possible as he still has his prostate but is 0.5 to 1.1 in 3 months a big jump and are we looking at treatment again do you think and if so what treatment?

Any advice as to what we might be facing again now would be very welcome. I am trying not to panic but this latest news has knocked us sideways!!

Debbie xx

 

Debbie xxx
User
Posted 28 Aug 2020 at 20:25
You have said in your profile that it looks like you have a problem, but you might not - G still has a prostate so the healthy cells can regenerate, producing 'healthy' PSA. Generally, after RT as long as the PSA stays below 2.0 the oncologists are happy. The complication in your case is that N1 in the original diagnosis so yes, the onco may suggest a PET scan to see if any activity shows up.

Even if the onco concludes that G has had a recurrence, it doesn't necessarily mean that he will start back on the hormones immediately - some oncos prefer to wait until the PSA reaches 5, 10 or even higher before restarting the hormones because they only work for a limited time before becoming ineffective. Having said that, we have had men here who stayed well for 10 years or more on HT.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 28 Aug 2020 at 22:41

Thank you for your reassuring response Lynne, it’s a big help and has made me less anxious. We will wait to see what the Onco says. Thanks again Debbie

Debbie xxx
User
Posted 28 Aug 2020 at 22:55

At a quick glance, G's PSA was 0.1 throughout HT.

When he comes off HT and his testosterone recovers, he still has a prostate, and it will switch back on, producing PSA as expected. PSA is expected to rise.

G's PSA however stayed at 0.1, and this would suggest his testosterone hadn't returned. I don't see the details of exactly when the last HT injection was or what its duration was, but it looks to me like his testosterone started recovering in January this year, as that's when his PSA starts rising. Did this coincide with reversal of any of the HT side effects, such as regrowing body hair, return of libido, etc? This would be a pretty typical timeframe.

So I would suggest the rise in PSA is entirely expected, and not a sign of recurrence. Hopefully urology will confirm.

I always suggest patients get a testosterone test added to their PSA tests while they're recovering from HT, because PSA values are difficult to interpret otherwise. I meant to ask my onco but forgot. I just saw the letter my onco has sent to my GP, which says 3 monthly PSA and testosterone tests when I come off HT at the end of this year, so I didn't need to ask!

User
Posted 28 Aug 2020 at 23:20

Hi Andy, thank you for your response. Can you give me a brief explanation as to how PSA Levels and testosterone levels are linked and why the PSA is hard to interpret without a testosterone reading.

My OH has never had a testosterone test to my knowledge but I don’t really understand how one affects the other. Thanks Debbie x

Debbie xxx
User
Posted 29 Aug 2020 at 04:02

Debbie,

Testosterone is the hormone that activates the prostate, causing both cell growth from puberty, and the cells to produce PSA, the main product of the prostate. PSA is one of the components of semen. In a healthy prostate, the cells are arranged such that the PSA collects in the ducts of the prostate, and only a little leaks into the blood. Cancer cells are not arranged correctly and the PSA they make isn't collected in the ducts, and ends up leaking into the blood in larger amounts, hence pushing up the PSA level in the blood.

Hormone therapy is given to switch off the prostate cells during radiotherapy, and for a period before (neoadjuvant) and afterwards (adjuvant). It does this by stopping testosterone, which switches the cells off, preventing growth, and preventing PSA generation. It turns out that if you prevent prostate growth during radiotherapy, the outcomes are significantly improved. This is why PSA drops when you are on hormone therapy, and measuring PSA is a useful indicator of just how 'switched off' the prostate is.

The radiotherapy should kill all the cancer cells in the prostate, but ideally doesn't kill non-cancerous cells. Many people don't realise that radiotherapy is selective and imagine it's like microwaving their prostate for 5 mins on full power, but that's absolutely not the case. After the radiotherapy, the cancerous cells will either be dead, or badly enough damaged not to be able to grow new cancer cells. There will be some collateral damage to non-cancerous cells too (that's what causes radiotherapy side effects), but most will survive.

When you come off hormone therapy, your testosterone will hopefully come back, but it takes time. Usually nothing happens for a while, but then it comes back over a period 3-6 months. When this happens, your prostate cells will switch back on and they will start producing PSA, which is their main function. Even healthy cells leak a little PSA into the blood, forming the "normal" PSA level, and your PSA level will rise back to that. It looks to me like this happened from February to now in your case, perhaps 12 months after stopping hormone therapy, which is not untypical.

If you had testosterone readings too, you could confirm that the PSA rose as the testosterone did. Given that you don't, and we expect to see the PSA rise to normal levels, and it has, we can assume that this is when your testosterone recovered. Furthermore, this is in line with typical timescales for testosterone recovery after hormone therapy ceases.

This doesn't confirm that the radiotherapy did get all the cancer - it's too soon to know that. But what you're seeing so far is entirely expected. If the PSA rises above 2.1 in your case (2 more than the minimum after treatment), then that would start raising concerns that there might be some cancer left, but I don't see any cause for alarm now. I think what you are seeing is entirely expected.

Edited by member 29 Aug 2020 at 04:08  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 29 Aug 2020 at 08:44

Andy, thank  you so much for this very concise explanation. It was a big help and, like Lyn’s response, was very reassuring. Thanks again x

Debbie xxx
 
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