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PSA rising 4 years 8 months after RP

User
Posted 21 Jun 2022 at 13:42

Hi all.

I'm worried.

Paco continues to have diarrhea and mucus in motions, and even just mucus sometimes. He’s on a soft and astringent diet as the onco suggested yesterday, but apparently that's not enough. I wonder if Imodium or st like that could have helped? I don't know. We’ll just trust the doctor as we're supposed to.

This morning, before going for his 21th IMRT session -33 are scheduled -, we had consultation  again and the onco said Paco’d better stop radio for the rest of the week and have an endoscopy , a CT SCAN and blood work previous to taking RT back.

I'm concerned about any possible damage to his bowels, but what  I’m most worried about is the radio interruption.

Thoughts, comments? I’d be thankful to read your words.

Best to all,

Lola.

 

User
Posted 21 Jun 2022 at 22:07

Lola, I never got as bad as Paco and so can't advise.  Hopefully Lyn or Andy or one of the more experienced will be able to answer.  I suppose you have to trust your Oncologist.

I hope things settle down quickly.

User
Posted 24 Jun 2022 at 03:17

Ulsterman, thanks anyway for taking the time to drop me some lines.

Paco's now doing better with his diarrhea and  bowel irritation. Nevertheless he's having a colonoscopy tomorrow; if ok, as it supposedly  will be, he'll just the procedure.

I also hope you're coping with your "subtle" surgery issue and can soon recover for a proper and gratifying function.

Keep care,

Lola.

 

User
Posted 24 Jun 2022 at 10:34

Lola, if he already has diarrhoea and is having to drink the preparation drink for the colonoscopy the frequent visits to the toilet could make his rear end very sore. I was advised to dab not wipe and use chilled wet wipes.

Thanks Chris 

 

User
Posted 24 Jun 2022 at 20:14

Thanks, Chris.

As you recommend he's been cautious in his frequent visits to the toilet during the two days previous to the colonoscopy this morning. Luckily, the outcome was ok: no mucosa irritation or any other damage to his bowels. Unless some new problem appears, cross fingers, he'll restart RT by next Monday. Shall he be given just the 13 sessions remaining to complete the scheduled treatment or, due to this interruption, any extra session will be added? No idea, we'll get to know next week.

Thanks for your response.

Enjoy the weekend,

Lola.

User
Posted 24 Jun 2022 at 20:40

Lola, I had a couple of sessions cancelled because of machine problems, they just added the missed ones back in where they could. They did tell me they could even do two sessions in one day if required, that may depend on how many sessions are being given.

Thanks Chris 

 

User
Posted 24 Jun 2022 at 21:51

Chris, you mean they gave you the amount of sessions you had missed (2), but not any extra one in addition to those previously planned as a compensation in case malignant cells had "awaken" during "vacation days"?

I'm afraid I'm burnt out at this stage of the procedure. I live in a constant state of fear I must hide from him and cope with. I miss my home,  my routine, my privacy...Thankfully, hub is quite an emotionally stable guy.

Your support helps. Thanks, Chris xxx

Lola.

 

 

 

User
Posted 24 Jun 2022 at 22:28

Lola ,the plan was for me to have 33 sessions and that is what I had. From the first session to the last session was fifty days. The missed sessions were rescheduled on Saturdays. My treatment was over the Easter and May day period so there were some public holidays in there. Over the Easter holiday I had one session on Thursday and the next one was Tuesday.

Not sure how his Vacation days would affect things, but I am.sure our scholars will know.

I am sure he is in good hands. Try to relax and look after yourself.

Thanks Chris 

Edited by member 24 Jun 2022 at 23:11  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 28 Jun 2022 at 11:47

Hi there.

I'm worried about Paco's change in RT treatment.P

At 0.33 PSA, PSMA TAC showed two spots: in a seminal vesicle bed and in  one illiac lymph node. He was having radiaton to the SVB and to both sides of the pelvis, las a preventive measure for possible unseen micromets or malignant cells existing,  I assume?

The point is that yesterday, after his 21th session (33 were planned), he decided quitting the RT to whole pelvis as after a few days with diarrhea and bowel discomfort he was afraid it could become a chronical issue, although he had got so much relief at that point. Onco said "it's up to you". Honestly, I would have thanked some dialogue, but when I asked him about pros and cons,  how dangerous doing it that way could be, but his professional answer was "I do not have a crystal ball". Obviously, this attitude added confusion and annoyance to my concern. Kind of a cold-fish, isn't it? 

So, the plan now is, once the physicians and/or physicists rearrange the new target, to just radiating the SVB and the very lymph node itself.

I'm scared: how about the increased likelihood to have a new relapse somewhere else? Might the previous 21 sessions have worked to some extent, to my consolation?

I don't dare to ask you for any statement, you don't have to make it, but your thoughts and opinions are always helpful when I'm scared and confused.

Best,

Lola

User
Posted 28 Jun 2022 at 12:32

So long as they are targeting the spots that sounds like a sensible approach. No point curring him of PC if his life isn't worth living because of radiation toxicity...

If he hadn't had the PSMA scan they may have only targeted the prostate bed anyway so at least the lymph node is getting zapped.

 

 

Edited by member 28 Jun 2022 at 12:35  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 28 Jun 2022 at 12:42

Lola ,has he changed his diet and has that made the situation worse. On my weekends off I ate normally and that did create temporary bowel / motion problems. It did not take long before my bowels got better and five years on my bowels are better than before SRT.  My bladder is a different story and I will have a catheter for life, not great but, I cope quite well. I was told afterwards that 5 percent of SRT patients get severe bladder damage, you could ask what percentage get severe bowel problems. 

Thanks Chris 

User
Posted 14 Aug 2022 at 17:15

We’re confused about Paco’s treatment being the right or wrong one.

 

Due to BCR he´s just gone over 33 RT sessions to the two spots showed in PSMA PET at 0.33 PSA level, four years post Da Vinci RP: one illiac lymph node and one in SVB. Also his whole pelvis was radiated as a preventive measure in case of mycromets, I assume, but he finally took only 21 instead of the 33 that were scheduled as he was feeling poorly with diarrhoea and pee issue. So, 12 whole pelvic sessions were skipped. I still get irritated when I recall, in response to my question about “more likelihood to relapse again”, the oncologist said “I do not have a glass ball”.

 

One month later blood test was ok: 0.21 testosterone and 0.04 PSA. At that moment Paco happened to have his protocol visit to the urologist. “Doing ok”, he said, but we felt surprised when the uro, kind of surprised too, asked if he was still being given the Eligard jabs. I mean, he has been on Eligard for six months so far, and the plan is adding 2 years counting from the moment RT was over. 30 months in all.

In addition to this, when I asked the same question to the uro about having missed 12 sessions to whole pelvis he honestly said “if it had been my decision, I wouldn’t planned radiating other than the two spots, but this is my criteria, and Dr. X is an excellent onco and you are in good hands and bla bla bla.”

 

To resume, is he being over-treated? He is 73, will he recover his hormones, or, will he recover from the side effects?

 

I wonder if the onco has seated at his table for a while and examined Paco´s history thoroughly enough to decide his future or he has just applied “plan X”. I know from here and from many other sites I’ve searched on that cases are different each other: Gleason pre op, Gleason post op, PSA kinetics, biopsy, age…Am I paranoid?

 

Next Wednesday he’s seeing an onco here, in our city. He’s our best friend’s friend, so, although it will take place at the hospital he leads, somehow will be a “friendly consultation”, but why not say “second thought”? Depending on his opinion we’ll have to decide what to about it.

 

I need your advice, your opinion. Your words. I feel a bit lonely in this journey. My daughter lives in USA and my sons don’t seem to have any intention to get involved in our troubles or hesitations.

 

Many of you here are more knowledged than doctors but, mainly, you’re experienced and smart patients, wives, carers, etc, and that conditions enable you to understand others in a similar condition.
I’ll be thankful.

 

Best to all.

 

Lola.

 

Edited by member 14 Aug 2022 at 17:15  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 14 Aug 2022 at 21:37

Lola,  did the two hot spots get treated before the SRT was cut short. Not sure how they write the program for Paco's situation.

Thanks Chris 

 

 

User
Posted 14 Aug 2022 at 21:50
No, Chris. Paco had RP , no mets found, clear margins, no SV invasion. Many lymph nodes were removed, all of them clear. The two hot spots appeared in PSMA TAC given at BCR 0.33 PSA.
User
Posted 14 Aug 2022 at 22:09

I'm afraid i didn't get you right. The radio to the whole pelvic was cut at 21 session, but not the radio to the two hot spots. The treatment to the two spots was completed as planned. They continue to shoot at them alone.

User
Posted 14 Aug 2022 at 23:26

Lola, at least they have targeted the known areas of concern. 

Thanks Chris 

 

User
Posted 14 Aug 2022 at 23:48
Yes, actually, as said above, the uro's opinion was that there was no need to radiate the whole pekvis, and it makes me feel better, but on the other hand, his criteria was different from the oncologist's and that makes me feel confused. What is more, the urologist seemed to be surprised that his colleague had planned 2:years HT from now on added to the six months he's already gone through. That's the reason why now we're not sure Paco's having the right treatment.

User
Posted 15 Aug 2022 at 03:17
The answer is both targets were correct and only time will tell if whole pelvis or targeted or a bit of both are the right choice. So although brutal the oncos crystal ball answer is probably correct.

At 73 2 years HT seems a bit long as it's a big chunk of whatever time Paco has left and quality of life needs to be part of the decision process.

So the oncos preferred path was probably belts and braces but comes with a high quality of life cost. The Urologist choice was the bare minimum but maximises QOL.

Either way it's done now and you need to focus on getting the right duration of HT for Paco's QOL

User
Posted 15 Aug 2022 at 17:02

That's correct, Francij, but I'd like to have more information about the benefit of extending the HT treatment further than 18 months. This subject had been brought here on some occasion. That's not only a matter of QoL but also of effectiveness.

User
Posted 26 Aug 2023 at 18:23

Hi all. Hope you're doing as well as possible and bearing this extremely hot summer.

Maybe my question is a silly one, but zeros after point (I mean 0.0000 ) are stupidly hard for me to deal with. Also I don't know what the PSA expectations are after having had IMRT 15 months and still in HT, for 17 months. I mean his PSA kept dropping significantly. Three months ago it was 0.007 and right now up to 0.01. Anything to worry about?

Any answer is appreciated.

Best,

Lola 

 

 

 

User
Posted 26 Aug 2023 at 20:14

Lola,that is a very minimal rise,as we have seen from mine and others on here, even when the same blood sample is tested at the same time and lab it can vary by 0.01,that is way more than your rise.

As for expectations I assume that because Paco has had surgery like me when the dust settles anything below 0.2 would be ideal. After surgery and SRT my onco was talking about waiting for the PSA to reach 2,4,8 or even 10 before considering life time HT. 

As treatments have progressed so do options. Again like me, SABR treatment could be the next action if required.

Stop worrying, it doesn't help 😀. Take care.

Thanks Chris 

 

User
Posted 26 Aug 2023 at 23:58

Thanks for reading and replying ,Chris. You've helped me stop my f**** rambling.

As for the rest, no significant problem with treatment other than occasional tiredness and the normal sleep for a 74 year old guy instead of for the marmot he used to be.

Strong tailored and  guided gym is working great, both for body and mind. I'm writing you this drag because I'm aware  of your reluctance to follow the supposedly advisable track.

As always, I wish you the best and appreciate your words.

Night  xx

 
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