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Recording of Consultations

User
Posted 31 Oct 2023 at 11:27

Hi everyone, I'm a newbie here, so please be gentle 😬😄

Following a raised PSA of 7.25, MRI showing a 9 mm suspicious area with a PIRAD score of 4, DRE showing smooth prostate with no raised nodules, transperineal biopsy with 26 samples taken, I'm currently awaiting the appointment for the results.

I'm preparing for the possibility of a diagnosis of localised prostate cancer. I'll be attending the appointment alone, and while I'm not in a massive panic, I'm concerned that my poor memory and anxiety might cause me to forget important details discussed during the appointment.

I've read advice  about taking written notes, but my handwriting is terrible, so I’m  considering recording the appointment with my iPhone to ensure I don't miss any crucial information, which will help me consider treatment options if it’s cancer. However, I don't want to jeopardise the relationship I might need to build with the consultant or specialist nurse, as I know people in general are not comfortable with being recorded.

I’ve never done this before so I’m curious if anyone here has experience with recording medical appointments. How did you approach it, did you speak to the consultant’s PA in advance, and how did they respond when you asked if you could record the conversation? I'm inclined to believe they would agree, but I don't want to create any mistrust. My aim is not to use the recording to hold them accountable, just to make sure I have a clear record of our discussion.

I'd appreciate hearing about others' experiences and whether they found recording appointments to be the right choice.

Tony

User
Posted 31 Oct 2023 at 13:58

I always take in a list of questions in with me. After I've left, as soon as possible (before I leave the hospital) I'll write any more notes on my sheet before I forget them. The notes the consultant writes won't be everything and are not necessarily the things that are important to you.

I remember reading a leaflet in one hospital which said you could ask for a consultation to be recorded in which case the hospital recorded it for you, because they have to have a copy of any recording you have (presumably in case of any complaint or litigation later on).

I have come across people who just record it on their mobile in their pocket.

User
Posted 31 Oct 2023 at 11:27

Hi everyone, I'm a newbie here, so please be gentle 😬😄

Following a raised PSA of 7.25, MRI showing a 9 mm suspicious area with a PIRAD score of 4, DRE showing smooth prostate with no raised nodules, transperineal biopsy with 26 samples taken, I'm currently awaiting the appointment for the results.

I'm preparing for the possibility of a diagnosis of localised prostate cancer. I'll be attending the appointment alone, and while I'm not in a massive panic, I'm concerned that my poor memory and anxiety might cause me to forget important details discussed during the appointment.

I've read advice  about taking written notes, but my handwriting is terrible, so I’m  considering recording the appointment with my iPhone to ensure I don't miss any crucial information, which will help me consider treatment options if it’s cancer. However, I don't want to jeopardise the relationship I might need to build with the consultant or specialist nurse, as I know people in general are not comfortable with being recorded.

I’ve never done this before so I’m curious if anyone here has experience with recording medical appointments. How did you approach it, did you speak to the consultant’s PA in advance, and how did they respond when you asked if you could record the conversation? I'm inclined to believe they would agree, but I don't want to create any mistrust. My aim is not to use the recording to hold them accountable, just to make sure I have a clear record of our discussion.

I'd appreciate hearing about others' experiences and whether they found recording appointments to be the right choice.

Tony

User
Posted 31 Oct 2023 at 11:42

We went with a list of questions, and made notes as needed. I think if you plan on recording it would be good to raise it in advance. Good luck in your results. 

User
Posted 31 Oct 2023 at 13:05
The consultant should summarise the consultation including his recommendations in a letter to you and your GP.

If you want to record it it should be ok but suggest you request in advance.

User
Posted 31 Oct 2023 at 15:26

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
 I'm preparing for the possibility of a diagnosis of localised prostate cancer. I'll be attending the appointment alone, and while I'm not in a massive panic, I'm concerned that my poor memory and anxiety might cause me to forget important details discussed during the appointment. 

Hello Tony,

Apparently the BMA, due to equality legislation, recommend patients with poor memories to  ask for consultations to be recorded and doctors are encouraged to comply with the request. I don't know the procedure to enable these recordings but my guess is it will vary from Trust to Trust.

Much to my dismay I discovered that consultants letters summarising their  consultations can be inaccurate or incorrect.

I'm quite a confident and assertive person but some consultants are either so busy or full of self importance that they make you feel uncomfortable and rushed, Factors that may further impede memory.  

Edited by member 31 Oct 2023 at 15:52  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 31 Oct 2023 at 16:05

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
The info re the BMA is interesting - thanks for that. I'm pretty confident and not phased with medical professionals - it's just that, given the conversation will be daunting I think I'll struggle to remember all the detail

I'm also a newbie and haven't got a clue how to post links on here to other sites.

The information I mentioned was from https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/ethics/confidentiality-and-health-records/patients-recording-consultations 

You are doing the right thing to properly prepare for the consultation.

Edited by member 31 Oct 2023 at 16:05  | Reason: Typo

User
Posted 01 Nov 2023 at 09:26

Rightly or wrongly I recorded the consultation. I felt that the importance of what was being said trumped any abstract notion of confidentiality.

 

 

User
Posted 01 Nov 2023 at 11:51

I would be open about it. Tell them that you have a terrible memory and ask if you could record the consultation. I don't know whether you'd need to give them prior warning, give them a call and ask. I doubt whether any consultant would object especially given the BMA guidelines.

Although completely different scenarios I compare it to police interviews. In the old days suspects would be interviewed, then notes were made of the interview - very inaccurate; leading to disputes over what had been said. Then contemporaneous notes were introduced - more accurate but not perfect. Finally tape recorded interviews. Completely accurate and safeguarded officers and suspects. 

Just hope your consultant doesn't make a no comment interview. 😀

As I said completely different interviews, but it's more far more important to ensure that you preserve accurate and possible life changing information,  rather than whether someone admits nicking a Mars bar from Tesco?

 

Edited by member 01 Nov 2023 at 12:14  | Reason: Typo

User
Posted 01 Nov 2023 at 18:46

My Onco is very direct and doesn’t like to waste time, so I just thought 1 less question might be better!  Also, I felt that in the meeting I might get flustered and make a mess of switching it on in the heat of the moment.

User
Posted 04 Nov 2023 at 18:55

Good idea but you can ask if its ok, if for instance you need to discuss with a partner who cant attend

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User
Posted 31 Oct 2023 at 11:42

We went with a list of questions, and made notes as needed. I think if you plan on recording it would be good to raise it in advance. Good luck in your results. 

User
Posted 31 Oct 2023 at 13:05
The consultant should summarise the consultation including his recommendations in a letter to you and your GP.

If you want to record it it should be ok but suggest you request in advance.

User
Posted 31 Oct 2023 at 13:58

I always take in a list of questions in with me. After I've left, as soon as possible (before I leave the hospital) I'll write any more notes on my sheet before I forget them. The notes the consultant writes won't be everything and are not necessarily the things that are important to you.

I remember reading a leaflet in one hospital which said you could ask for a consultation to be recorded in which case the hospital recorded it for you, because they have to have a copy of any recording you have (presumably in case of any complaint or litigation later on).

I have come across people who just record it on their mobile in their pocket.

User
Posted 31 Oct 2023 at 14:01
09:56:39 am

https://www.scotsman.com/health/cancer-patients-given-cds-of-consultations-1632413

User
Posted 31 Oct 2023 at 15:26

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
 I'm preparing for the possibility of a diagnosis of localised prostate cancer. I'll be attending the appointment alone, and while I'm not in a massive panic, I'm concerned that my poor memory and anxiety might cause me to forget important details discussed during the appointment. 

Hello Tony,

Apparently the BMA, due to equality legislation, recommend patients with poor memories to  ask for consultations to be recorded and doctors are encouraged to comply with the request. I don't know the procedure to enable these recordings but my guess is it will vary from Trust to Trust.

Much to my dismay I discovered that consultants letters summarising their  consultations can be inaccurate or incorrect.

I'm quite a confident and assertive person but some consultants are either so busy or full of self importance that they make you feel uncomfortable and rushed, Factors that may further impede memory.  

Edited by member 31 Oct 2023 at 15:52  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 31 Oct 2023 at 15:41
The info re the BMA is interesting - thanks for that. I'm pretty confident and not phased with medical professionals - it's just that, given the conversation will be daunting I think I'll struggle to remember all the detail
User
Posted 31 Oct 2023 at 16:05

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
The info re the BMA is interesting - thanks for that. I'm pretty confident and not phased with medical professionals - it's just that, given the conversation will be daunting I think I'll struggle to remember all the detail

I'm also a newbie and haven't got a clue how to post links on here to other sites.

The information I mentioned was from https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/ethics/confidentiality-and-health-records/patients-recording-consultations 

You are doing the right thing to properly prepare for the consultation.

Edited by member 31 Oct 2023 at 16:05  | Reason: Typo

User
Posted 01 Nov 2023 at 09:26

Rightly or wrongly I recorded the consultation. I felt that the importance of what was being said trumped any abstract notion of confidentiality.

 

 

User
Posted 01 Nov 2023 at 09:51

Hi Tom, I'm assuming you did this covertly without asking for permission - I fully understand that as there are life changing decisions to be made, which depend on you having full knowledge of all the options. 

User
Posted 01 Nov 2023 at 10:56

I've been reading through the discussions around treatment options on other posts and realise how important it is to fully understand complex medical information such as PI-RADS, Gleason Scores, TNM grades, CPG etc. It worries me that I might not fully grasp the details of my treatment options unless I can recall, word for word, what's discussed during my biopsy results appointment.

I think taking notes, as some people do, could disrupt the flow of conversation, and anyway my handwriting is hardly legible at the best of times, not to mention my forgetfulness.

I was hoping to hear about more positive experiences around recording consultations. It seems like it could be valuable for both patients and healthcare professionals. Patients can make more informed decisions, and consultants and specialist nurses can ensure that their patients have the necessary information. I suppose the fear of litigation can undermine trust, however, the BMA guidance sent by Adrianus states that most recordings “actually support the actions of Doctors” and it advises that requests for recording are responded to positively. 

This has led me to now consider covert recording of the consultation. While I could ask for consent, I worry that the request itself might raise suspicion and spoil any ongoing relationship. The BMA guidelines says that covert recording is not illegal, provided you don't publish the recording.

Morally, it's a grey area, but being able to say I respected the wishes of the medical staff who refused recording, when I end up not fully understanding or remembering the information given won't be much use to me if I make a bad decision or if I'm not confident with my decision-making. Ultimately, my health and possibly my life is at stake, and having accurate information is crucial to making informed choices.

I wonder what people think about covertly recording the appointment?

User
Posted 01 Nov 2023 at 11:51

I would be open about it. Tell them that you have a terrible memory and ask if you could record the consultation. I don't know whether you'd need to give them prior warning, give them a call and ask. I doubt whether any consultant would object especially given the BMA guidelines.

Although completely different scenarios I compare it to police interviews. In the old days suspects would be interviewed, then notes were made of the interview - very inaccurate; leading to disputes over what had been said. Then contemporaneous notes were introduced - more accurate but not perfect. Finally tape recorded interviews. Completely accurate and safeguarded officers and suspects. 

Just hope your consultant doesn't make a no comment interview. 😀

As I said completely different interviews, but it's more far more important to ensure that you preserve accurate and possible life changing information,  rather than whether someone admits nicking a Mars bar from Tesco?

 

Edited by member 01 Nov 2023 at 12:14  | Reason: Typo

User
Posted 01 Nov 2023 at 12:06
Your scenario makes a lot of sense - I might have to read the caution to the consultant - "You are not obliged to say anything but anything you do say will be recorded on my iphone and used against you" lol

my initial gut reaction was to be up front and just ask, but that was before I heard that some consultants can be awkward about it. So if you ask and they say no - not only do you not get to record it, but maybe you have also installed some mistrust - it's a gamble

User
Posted 01 Nov 2023 at 13:03

Rightly or wrongly I have to admit that I just recorded my last appointment with the Onco on my phone without him knowing. My phone was in my pocket and it was invaluable to me following the meeting to recap what was said even though my wife attended the meeting with me. I would hope most consultants would be happy for you to do this if you ask. After all, it’s YOUR life we are talking about and it’s so important that you’ve understood what was said at the meeting and under the stress of the meeting, you MAY WELL miss something important.

User
Posted 01 Nov 2023 at 13:17

That's what I'm leaning towards doing at the moment - just out of interest what was it that made you feel that you shouldn't get his permission up front? - I'm not saying that's what you should have done as I'm thinking of recording it without telling him

User
Posted 01 Nov 2023 at 18:46

My Onco is very direct and doesn’t like to waste time, so I just thought 1 less question might be better!  Also, I felt that in the meeting I might get flustered and make a mess of switching it on in the heat of the moment.

User
Posted 02 Nov 2023 at 16:46

Yes I didn't tell the onco, probably not the right ethical decision but I didn't want to get into an argument. My daughter has MS and her specialist is very difficult about her taking photos of scans etc, which I feel is unacceptable. 

I figured the information he gave me was mine to use and record as I saw fit. 

Edited by member 02 Nov 2023 at 16:48  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 02 Nov 2023 at 16:48
You're correct there Tom
User
Posted 04 Nov 2023 at 18:55

Good idea but you can ask if its ok, if for instance you need to discuss with a partner who cant attend

 
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