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Very worried about referral for high PSA

User
Posted 11 Jun 2018 at 21:00
Busy day today.

Firstly, this lunchtime I had a more detailed CT scan of the splenic artery, where the aneurysm is, to see if it'll need anything doing before they can go ahead with the kidney surgery. The last CT scan I had, for the kidney, I was fine with, but apparently when they scan a blood vessel they need to pump in a much more intense dose of the iodine "marker" that goes in through a cannula in the arm, and that's had me throwing up all afternoon. Not nice at all. Seeing the vascular surgeon on Thursday morning to get the results.

This evening (still feeling somewhat queasy!) I've seen the oncologist who attended the regional MDT. He said basically what I was expecting, which is that the Gleason 3+3 from the TRUS isn't consistent with a PSA of 31, so they want to do a template biopsy to see if more active cancer is lurking around the front of the prostate. He's referring me to yet another consultant (number five!) for that, and it'll probably be done next week. That'll be under general anaesthetic (thank God!).

One thing he did say is that with a PSA of 30+ they're very unlikely to offer surgery, because that level of PSA probably means active cancer cells that could be missed by the surgery, so the offered treatment will most likely be HT followed by RT.

So things move on, but unfortunately no treatment plan as yet.

Cheers,

Chris

User
Posted 11 Jun 2018 at 21:29

Exactly what they said to me Chris, PSA of 38,  luckily my consultant sent me directly for template biopsy so I avoided the dreaded TRUS

 Don’t worry at all about the template biopsy it’s a doddle. If it’s anything like my hospital they were  fantastic soon as I came out of the operation they topped me up regularly with tea and water, all helps as you need to pee a jug before you can go home

i had no blood in my pee, but pink semen for a couple of weeks, which wife thought was funny, bless her

despite 32 biopsies I had no issues, kept dressing on for a day, checked it out with a mirror and took a selfie!

no after pain or bleeding at all and no walking like John Wayne

good luck with the next step.  Will be interesting to see the difference in the Gleason score between the TRUS biopsy and the template biopsy 

User
Posted 11 Jun 2018 at 21:42
Thanks, Alan. I was going to ask if you'd been told something similar regarding surgery, because our cases seem to be pretty similar.

Not too concerned about the template biopsy. Peed blood for a week and a half after the TRUS, so hoping this time I'll avoid that!

Cheers,

Chris

User
Posted 11 Jun 2018 at 21:44

Yes,  I meant to mention that Chris as I had a PSA at 38 which proved to be Gleason 4:5  surgery is not offered for such aggressive PCa

User
Posted 11 Jun 2018 at 21:47

I had the iodine marker on two MRI scans as I had suspect areas that were not clear.  I had no adverse reactions I think you were just unlucky 

 I think the strangest thing was going for the bone scan and following the signs for nuclear medicine and going down in a lift as it was in the basement 

 Then watching the technician get the injection out of a shielded metal box nearly freaked me out 

Edited by member 11 Jun 2018 at 21:48  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 11 Jun 2018 at 22:10

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

Yes,  I meant to mention that Chris as I had a PSA at 38 which proved to be Gleason 4:5  surgery is not offered for such aggressive PCa

 

It isn't necessarily the G 4+ 5 that rules out surgery, lots of men do have the op with that score. It is more about how many cores were positive, what % of the cores was positive, the T score, etc. Al things combined, the MDT decided that RT / HT was best in your case but another man with G9 may get a surgeon with a different view. 

 

Chris, I am a little surprised that they are suspicious of your results as we have plenty of men who have had higher PSA and no sign of cancer, or it has been put down to BPH. Fingers crossed for you that the template biopsy results are good and your G3+3 was reliable.  

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 13 Jun 2018 at 09:45

They move quickly, anyway. Just got a phone call from the hospital to arrange an appointment for Saturday morning with the chap who’ll be doing the template biopsy. He will be the 5th different consultant I’ll have seen in the last month! This isn’t an appointment for the procedure itself, just for a consultation. I’m hoping the procedure will follow soon after that. I believe that since this will be done under a general anaesthetic there’ll be a “pre-op” examination (ECG, etc).

Starting to worry a bit about tomorrow’s appointment to get the results of the aneurysm scan, in case they say that it’ll make the kidney surgery too risky. The vascular surgeon did say that there was a very small chance they’d need to remove my spleen and tie off the splenic artery, but that would only be done if it were a case of saving my life, but I need the kidney surgery to save my life. Eek! Must try not to over-analyse these things, but still worrying about it. Oh well, I’ll know tomorrow. I really want to get the kidney surgery over with so at least the renal cancer is sorted out.

Chris

 

Edited by member 13 Jun 2018 at 09:53  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 13 Jun 2018 at 10:03

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

They move quickly, anyway. Just got a phone call from the hospital to arrange an appointment for Saturday morning with the chap who’ll be doing the template biopsy. He will be the 5th different consultant I’ll have seen in the last month! This isn’t an appointment for the procedure itself, just for a consultation. I’m hoping the procedure will follow soon after that. I believe that since this will be done under a general anaesthetic there’ll be a “pre-op” examination (ECG, etc).

Starting to worry a bit about tomorrow’s appointment to get the results of the aneurysm scan, in case they say that it’ll make the kidney surgery too risky. The vascular surgeon did say that there was a very small chance they’d need to remove my spleen and tie off the splenic artery, but that would only be done if it were a case of saving my life, but I need the kidney surgery to save my life. Eek! Must try not to over-analyse these things, but still worrying about it. Oh well, I’ll know tomorrow. I really want to get the kidney surgery over with so at least the renal cancer is sorted out.

Chris

 

chris,  I think I told you that template biopsy is transperineal that means it’s between your anus and your testicles and they go straight through the body into the prostate in my case 32 times you need a general anaesthetic for that procedure one advantage of this procedure is there is no chance of sepsis  and is not the same method as TRUS which goes through the rectal wall into the prostate.  Please don’t worry about the procedure I have had it done 

User
Posted 13 Jun 2018 at 10:57
Hi Alan,

I'm not worrying about the template biopsy particularly, more about what it might show. The oncologist whom I saw on Monday said that in his experience a PSA level as high as mine is more consistent with locally advanced PCa than localised PCa, and that obviously has implications for the chance of a long-term cure. Unfortunately I've always been a worrier - can't help it!

I'm hopeful that this will be the last test I need to have. They seem to have been going on for an eternity, although I'm well aware that I've been fortunate in getting all this done a lot more quickly than many people do, and that it's actually only been 41 days since I got the results of my initial PSA test.

Once the results of the template biopsy come back they should give me a definite staging for my PCa and then a treatment plan can be put in place.

Chris

User
Posted 13 Jun 2018 at 12:59

Chris

well, as I said, I am locally advanced and am on curative treatment plan.

As long as my blood results next Thursday show lowered PSA and Testosterone I will move onto to curative RT mid July 

so once your kidney and aneurysm are sorted you will be on the same path as me. 

Im hoping to be cured by October 🤞 

User
Posted 13 Jun 2018 at 13:29
Fingers crossed for us both, Alan!

Cheers,

Chris

User
Posted 13 Jun 2018 at 14:36

Hi Pallance, My husband was diagnosed T3B G9,  He had HDR Brachytherapy in April 2015 and he has just completed three years of Prostrap and had radiotherapy in 2016. He has found the HT caused fatigue and whilst he was having the RT he had disturbed sleep fatigue and felt generally exhausted, at  weekends he was much more energised, and we worked on the garden. His treatment has been curative, and we hope it  has done its stuff. We have a small holding to run, where we grow all our veggies and he has continued to work as a pro musician and singer, although he does less gigs. He is not a cyclist, but fit and he has worked as a fitness instructor when he was younger. He is will be 68 next month, we love travelling, and plan to backpack around SE Asia this winter. We also have moved four tonnes of coal and wood this week. We live very rurally and try to be as self sufficient as we can. 

He has side effects he gets muscle ache in the pelvic area, some days of fatigue some days he gets emotionally low, but bounces back after a day or So. Has it changed our life, yep! our normal, what ever that is has changed, we have travelled less. Was it worth it YES, we have lots of living to do. 

I hope this is useful to you. 

 

All the best Leila. 

 

 

User
Posted 13 Jun 2018 at 14:37

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

Hi Pallance, My husband was diagnosed T3B G9,  He had HDR Brachytherapy in April 2015 and he has just completed three years of Prostrap and had radiotherapy in 2016. He has found the HT caused fatigue and whilst he was having the RT he had disturbed sleep fatigue and felt generally exhausted, at  weekends he was much more energised, and we worked on the garden. His treatment has been curative, and we hope it  has done its stuff. We have a small holding to run, where we grow all our veggies and he has continued to work as a pro musician and singer, although he does less gigs. He is not a cyclist, but fit and he has worked as a fitness instructor when he was younger. He is will be 68 next month, we love travelling, and plan to backpack around SE Asia this winter. We also have moved four tonnes of coal and wood this week. We live very rurally and try to be as self sufficient as we can. 

He has side effects he gets muscle ache in the pelvic area, some days of fatigue some days he gets emotionally low, but bounces back after a day or So. Has it changed our life, yep! our normal, what ever that is has changed, we have travelled less. Was it worth it YES, we have lots of living to do. 

I hope this is useful to you. 

 

All the best Leila. 

 

 

User
Posted 14 Jun 2018 at 11:53
Every time I go to one of these consultations it's with the seemingly forlorn hope that someone's going to offer me some treatment, but that never seems to happen!

News from this morning's consultation with the vascular surgeon is that the CT scan has clarified that I do indeed have a 4cm aneurysm on my splenic artery. This is large, as aneurysms go, but the good news is that it appears to be almost entirely filled with clotted blood, with very little blood flow through it, which indicates that it's probably been there for a very long time and poses very little risk.

The next step is to take it to the great and the good at the vascular MDT, which will happen either tomorrow or next Friday, and (finally!) get a decision about treatment for it. This will probably either be to do nothing at all, if 3D imaging shows it to be "balloon shaped" with a narrow neck, or to block it off with a stent if it's more of an open bulge out from the wall of the artery. 3D image reconstruction happens at the MDT, apparently. Either way it's unlikely to be a surgical procedure, and shouldn't have any impact on my kidney surgery. So all in all, I suppose it's moderately good news, and at least the additional scan didn't show up any new problem.

So, there we go. This week I've had a CT scan and by the time I've had my appointment on Saturday will have seen three different consultants (oncologist on Monday, vascular surgeon today, and prostate surgeon on Saturday). I hope I'm nearing the end of the road as far as diagnostic tests go!

Cheers,

Chris

User
Posted 14 Jun 2018 at 12:25

I suppose the good news is that these appointments don’t have weeks in between Chris. Keep your chin up pal.

 

User
Posted 14 Jun 2018 at 12:50
Oh, I suppose it is understandable, given that there are essentially three different issues, each with its own specialist, but it would be nice to think that some actual treatment would begin soon. I know I'll feel a lot happier when it does!

How long was it for you, Alan, between your initial PSA test and starting treatment?

Chris

User
Posted 14 Jun 2018 at 13:21

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
Oh, I suppose it is understandable, given that there are essentially three different issues, each with its own specialist, but it would be nice to think that some actual treatment would begin soon. I know I'll feel a lot happier when it does!

How long was it for you, Alan, between your initial PSA test and starting treatment?


Chris

I started my journey on 26th January and started treatment 8th April, so I think that’s 41 days, just about 6 weeks?

i had 5 scans in total, Bone, MRI and CT were routine to eliminate possible mets, then 2 more detailed area MRI scans where the radiographer was unsure about results, 1 was a spot on my spine that thankfully turned out to be nothing and 1 on my pelvis, that has turned out to be Paget’s disease,  a bone growth abnormality, something that is nearly always discovered by scans looking for something else.  Once I am through the cancer treatment I will look into what can be done about the Pagets disease

My detailed timeline;

PSA blood test 26th January

result of 38 PSA 30th January 

DRE with consultant 8th February 

MRI Scan 9th February (got last minute cancellation as I live 2 miles from hospital)

Trans perineal biopsy day case 1st March

Oncologist review of biopsies 15th March

Gleason 4:5 = 9 in 11 cores on left, greatest core was 100% total cores 60%

Gleason 4:4 = 8 in 5 of 12 cores on the right, greatest core was 80% total cores 20%

So as I had 32 biopsies, 9 were clear.

Bone scan 23rd March mets

CT scan 26th March mets 

Consultant review 29th March 

Detailed spinal MRI scan 3rd April mets

start Bicalutamide 8th April

Decapeptyl hormone injection 23rd April 

End  Bicalutamide 6th May

MRI scan 11th May mets

Blood test PSA Testosterone check 15th June

Full Oncologist review and RT planning 21st June 

 The last two are Imminent 

 I have put this whole list as it might be of use to other members of the website to give them an idea of what occurs 

 

 

Edited by member 14 Jun 2018 at 14:16  | Reason: Add information

User
Posted 14 Jun 2018 at 14:15
Thanks, Alan - that's very helpful.

Chris

User
Posted 15 Jun 2018 at 18:12
I've felt quite cheerful about things for the last few days but today I'm really REALLY worried that the template biopsy is going to find something horrendous. When I read all the other stories on this site it's pretty much all people with PSAs in the single figures or low teens and here I am with 32 at the last measurement. Dreading that it's going to come back as "incurable". I know I'm being stupid, but I'm really scared today.

Consultant appointment at 10 o'clock in the morning. Perhaps he'll be able to give me a little reassurance. Hope so. Worst day emotionally that I've had in a couple of weeks today.

Chris

User
Posted 15 Jun 2018 at 20:37
Won't help you sleep easier since it is all guesswork until tomorrow but hold on to the fact that even though you haven't found their stories, we have also had men pass through here fleetingly with PSA of 30, 50 or even up into the 80s who apparently had no cancer at all.

Not stupid at all, probably more like self-preservation. If we imagine the worst, anything less is a bonus. You were worried before you went for your first results and actually, being diagnosed with three serious conditions is fairly horrendous but you survived.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

 
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