I'm interested in conversations about and I want to talk about
Know exactly what you want?
Show search

Notification

Error

Big decisions

User
Posted 19 Oct 2021 at 12:24

In just 78, not too fit, and although I have a very low PSA score, my GP found a prostate anomaly via a manual check, which has been confirmed with a MRI scan- a high PIRADS score of 5. I've yet to have the TRUS biopsy Ive been offered- I'm a bit nervous about that, and the risk of serious infection, which I see is worsened these day by the advent of antibiotic resistant bugs.

I even more worried by the quite high risks and impact of the various treatments, if cancer is confirmed. I don't think I could cope with incontinence or impotence.

So, although a biopsy would be informative, I ask myself- do I want to know? And what about just letting nature takes its course, especially given my age? More men evidently die with prostate caner than from it. I might get 5,10 or more years. I think then I am Im happy to take my chances. Although that's easy to say as at present I have no symptoms. Am I being foolish, just too terrified by the medical interventions and the need for decision?? Not doing anything is a decision of course.

Any reactions? There is a less risky biopsy approach available Im told- transperineal. Has anyone any experience of that? And any comments about what might be next! It all feels very frightening....and I'm impressed by the many who have faced it all out so well, as this site shows. I wish I was braver.

User
Posted 19 Oct 2021 at 15:46

Hi

It is sensible to take stock of where the tests may lead to and whetheryou want to go there or let nature take it's course. Even untreated PCa generally being a slow progressing disease may mean that it never becomes a problem for you, although if it does it can be a rotten way to die. So the first thing you have to consider is your lfe expectancy and did you father or close relative die of PCa. Then you have to factor in your health and any other health problems that might affect your life expectancy. Then you have to consider potential side effects and down sides of treatment and how risk adverse you are.

From a medical aspect you don't know your position until you have had your biopsy and perhaps a bone scan. When all tests have been completed you have a better idea of where you stand and what treatment you will be offered and could make your decision on proceding at that time. I would hold out for the transperineal biopsy as apart from being more accurate it results in much reduced risk of infection than the TRUS one. If your cancer is thought to be contained within the Prostate, you may be offered RT with or without HT and less likely but possibly surgery. If it is decided that your cancer is beyond where RT could be effective or possible, you would likely be offered a systemic treatment, probably HT, at least initially and maybe long term if it is working well enough to constrain you cancer. Unfortunately, you don't know as an individual how well you will respond to treatment or to the extent that you will be affected by side effects. Some useful information is provided here but some generalizations have to be made. Fewer men have surgery at your age and for those that have RT frequency and urgency usually reduce to pretreatment levels a couple of months or so after RT. Provided a man encourages them to happen erections can continue for quite some time although if HT is given inclination can diminish and is likely to diminish in a few years time anyway.

https://shop.prostatecanceruk.org//our-publications/all-publications/tool-kit?limit=100

 

Edited by member 19 Oct 2021 at 16:04  | Reason: to highlight link

Barry
User
Posted 19 Oct 2021 at 15:51

We have had a couple of people here with Pirads5 who have then got the all clear so it is by no means certain you have cancer, though at the age of 78 you have about an 80% chance that you have. The real question is how aggressive it is?

TRUS biopsy is a bit rubbish, in my opinion the risks of infection are a little too high. Transperineal biopsies are the future and I suspect with in a couple of years TRUS will be a thing of the past. I think if I were you and my PSA were less than 10 I would consider asking for another PSA test in six months and see if it is rising. But I am not you, and I'm not your doctor, so really it is a decision for you, with informed medical advice from people who have seen all your test results. 

A very similar thread came up recently, if you read this particularly the posts date on or after 18 October. It is from someone who has been diagnosed at your age with a non aggressive cancer and the discussion is about whether it is worth treating it, but similar arguments apply to you as far as whether it is worth diagnosing further.

https://community.prostatecanceruk.org/posts/t27333-MIR-procedure#post260804

 

Dave

User
Posted 19 Oct 2021 at 18:03
The old style TRUS was pretty rubbish - the equivalent of sticking a pin in a fruit cake and hoping you find the cherry - but that tends not to be what TRUS is like these days. However, trans-perineal biopsy may not be the future; my understanding is that many hospitals are now phasing trans-perineal out for a number of reasons - operating theatre availability and cost being two. The emerging trend appears to be for image guided or MRI guided TRUS and my guess is that this is what you have been offered ... they will use the MRI scans to target the specific area of your prostate where the suspicious area has been seen. The risk of infection is very low, probably much lower than the risk of dying a painful death from advanced and uncontrolled cancer.

There are situations where an older patient may be diagnosed and treated on the strength of their scans alone but in your case this could be risky, particularly if it turns out that you have a low secreting prostate cancer. Low secreting prostate cancer (normal PSA readings) can be much more aggressive / more likely to metastasise and the PSA can't be relied on to monitor what is happening.

If you are diagnosed, no one is going to force you to have treatment. My father-in-law was diagnosed at 79 and decided against any treatment that could affect his sex life so active surveillance was agreed. Unfortunately, in his case, that wasn't done correctly by the hospital and they failed to factor in that his PSA was not behaving normally - by the time he died, 4 years later, the cancer had spread to soft organs without anyone realising. If you are diagnosed and you go for active surveillance, just make sure that you get an MRI scan and digital rectal examination at least annually.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 19 Oct 2021 at 19:27
Hi Dave,

As has been said, around 80% of men your age have prostate cancer. Getting it is essentially a matter of being a man and living long enough. So it would perhaps be as well to assume that you do have it.

Personally, I agree with Lyn - get the biopsy. A TRUS biopsy is uncomfortable and undignified, but on a discomfort scale I'd put it on a par with having a filling at the dentist. I found the anticipation of the event far more stressful than the actual experience was!

If it does turn out that you require treatment, radiotherapy might perhaps be a good choice. It doesn't generally cause either incontinence or impotence. I had it myself in early 2019 and here I am two and a half years later enjoying life more than ever before. If you have any questions about it, I'm happy to answer them.

By the way, you mention being brave. I don't think many of us here would regard ourselves as brave! You get through it because that's what you have to do. It may be difficult to believe at this point in the process (and I was absolutely petrified when I was diagnosed), but everybody comes to terms with cancer and it just becomes the "new normal".

Very best wishes,

Chris

Show Most Thanked Posts
User
Posted 19 Oct 2021 at 15:46

Hi

It is sensible to take stock of where the tests may lead to and whetheryou want to go there or let nature take it's course. Even untreated PCa generally being a slow progressing disease may mean that it never becomes a problem for you, although if it does it can be a rotten way to die. So the first thing you have to consider is your lfe expectancy and did you father or close relative die of PCa. Then you have to factor in your health and any other health problems that might affect your life expectancy. Then you have to consider potential side effects and down sides of treatment and how risk adverse you are.

From a medical aspect you don't know your position until you have had your biopsy and perhaps a bone scan. When all tests have been completed you have a better idea of where you stand and what treatment you will be offered and could make your decision on proceding at that time. I would hold out for the transperineal biopsy as apart from being more accurate it results in much reduced risk of infection than the TRUS one. If your cancer is thought to be contained within the Prostate, you may be offered RT with or without HT and less likely but possibly surgery. If it is decided that your cancer is beyond where RT could be effective or possible, you would likely be offered a systemic treatment, probably HT, at least initially and maybe long term if it is working well enough to constrain you cancer. Unfortunately, you don't know as an individual how well you will respond to treatment or to the extent that you will be affected by side effects. Some useful information is provided here but some generalizations have to be made. Fewer men have surgery at your age and for those that have RT frequency and urgency usually reduce to pretreatment levels a couple of months or so after RT. Provided a man encourages them to happen erections can continue for quite some time although if HT is given inclination can diminish and is likely to diminish in a few years time anyway.

https://shop.prostatecanceruk.org//our-publications/all-publications/tool-kit?limit=100

 

Edited by member 19 Oct 2021 at 16:04  | Reason: to highlight link

Barry
User
Posted 19 Oct 2021 at 15:51

We have had a couple of people here with Pirads5 who have then got the all clear so it is by no means certain you have cancer, though at the age of 78 you have about an 80% chance that you have. The real question is how aggressive it is?

TRUS biopsy is a bit rubbish, in my opinion the risks of infection are a little too high. Transperineal biopsies are the future and I suspect with in a couple of years TRUS will be a thing of the past. I think if I were you and my PSA were less than 10 I would consider asking for another PSA test in six months and see if it is rising. But I am not you, and I'm not your doctor, so really it is a decision for you, with informed medical advice from people who have seen all your test results. 

A very similar thread came up recently, if you read this particularly the posts date on or after 18 October. It is from someone who has been diagnosed at your age with a non aggressive cancer and the discussion is about whether it is worth treating it, but similar arguments apply to you as far as whether it is worth diagnosing further.

https://community.prostatecanceruk.org/posts/t27333-MIR-procedure#post260804

 

Dave

User
Posted 19 Oct 2021 at 18:03
The old style TRUS was pretty rubbish - the equivalent of sticking a pin in a fruit cake and hoping you find the cherry - but that tends not to be what TRUS is like these days. However, trans-perineal biopsy may not be the future; my understanding is that many hospitals are now phasing trans-perineal out for a number of reasons - operating theatre availability and cost being two. The emerging trend appears to be for image guided or MRI guided TRUS and my guess is that this is what you have been offered ... they will use the MRI scans to target the specific area of your prostate where the suspicious area has been seen. The risk of infection is very low, probably much lower than the risk of dying a painful death from advanced and uncontrolled cancer.

There are situations where an older patient may be diagnosed and treated on the strength of their scans alone but in your case this could be risky, particularly if it turns out that you have a low secreting prostate cancer. Low secreting prostate cancer (normal PSA readings) can be much more aggressive / more likely to metastasise and the PSA can't be relied on to monitor what is happening.

If you are diagnosed, no one is going to force you to have treatment. My father-in-law was diagnosed at 79 and decided against any treatment that could affect his sex life so active surveillance was agreed. Unfortunately, in his case, that wasn't done correctly by the hospital and they failed to factor in that his PSA was not behaving normally - by the time he died, 4 years later, the cancer had spread to soft organs without anyone realising. If you are diagnosed and you go for active surveillance, just make sure that you get an MRI scan and digital rectal examination at least annually.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 19 Oct 2021 at 19:27
Hi Dave,

As has been said, around 80% of men your age have prostate cancer. Getting it is essentially a matter of being a man and living long enough. So it would perhaps be as well to assume that you do have it.

Personally, I agree with Lyn - get the biopsy. A TRUS biopsy is uncomfortable and undignified, but on a discomfort scale I'd put it on a par with having a filling at the dentist. I found the anticipation of the event far more stressful than the actual experience was!

If it does turn out that you require treatment, radiotherapy might perhaps be a good choice. It doesn't generally cause either incontinence or impotence. I had it myself in early 2019 and here I am two and a half years later enjoying life more than ever before. If you have any questions about it, I'm happy to answer them.

By the way, you mention being brave. I don't think many of us here would regard ourselves as brave! You get through it because that's what you have to do. It may be difficult to believe at this point in the process (and I was absolutely petrified when I was diagnosed), but everybody comes to terms with cancer and it just becomes the "new normal".

Very best wishes,

Chris

User
Posted 20 Oct 2021 at 20:33

Thanks everyone for the very helpful replies. I had a meeting with my consultant today and its now a lot clearer.    I'm to get the safer biopsy in Nov. and we will then see what's what. Im evidently too old for surgery.  Interestingly he said PSAs are not very relevant unless they are large!  MRI scans are more important and mine shows a real issue.  If the biopsy finds that its aggressive,  I will consider the therapies, if not I will just leave it be and monitor it. . 

 
Forum Jump  
©2024 Prostate Cancer UK